Will DKs Ever Get an Answer on 2H Frost?

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06/28/2018 03:23 PMPosted by Krothare
I've been playing World of Warcraft since the middle of Burning Crusade and when Death Knights came out I feel in love with them and the same one has been my main ever since.

However lately I just feel so unloved, 2H frost is gone and it killed me. Death Knights are all about being powerful and swinging deadly weapons. Frost is suppose to be about slowing your enemies with intense cold and finish them off with a final blow; our main attack is called Obliterate! The theme of Dual Wielding just doesn't fit Death Knights at all.

Please Blizzard I BEG you, please give us back 2H frost:(

How many threads, and cries of aganoy must we endure before we are listend to?


Go on Horde DK and ask again, they might listen then.


Salty much over misconception.. how typically droll go back and do Hogger Raiding like the other kindergartners and let the adults do the talking.
Dks the most op easy to play class with way too many cool downs moaning about 2 handed wepons for the sake of cosmetics. Try playing arcane then come back .
06/28/2018 03:23 PMPosted by Krothare
I've been playing World of Warcraft since the middle of Burning Crusade and when Death Knights came out I feel in love with them and the same one has been my main ever since.

However lately I just feel so unloved, 2H frost is gone and it killed me. Death Knights are all about being powerful and swinging deadly weapons. Frost is suppose to be about slowing your enemies with intense cold and finish them off with a final blow; our main attack is called Obliterate! The theme of Dual Wielding just doesn't fit Death Knights at all.

Please Blizzard I BEG you, please give us back 2H frost:(

How many threads, and cries of aganoy must we endure before we are listend to?


Go on Horde DK and ask again, they might listen then.


Troll DK's still having the floaty eye.

So no luck there.
06/28/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Zerkon
How many threads, and cries of aganoy must we endure before we are listend to?

I *like* dual-wield frost.
Well it makes sense to make them dual wield. Look at all the iconic dual wielding DK lore characters...

Artha... wait
Razuvious. No.
Koltira? Hmm...
Mograine.
Alexei Barov?
Nazgrim?
Thoras Trollbane...

JUST GIVE ME A MINUTE, GAWD....

Rivendare?
DRANOSH SAURFANG!?
Tyrannus?!?!
TERON GOREFIEND, THE FIRST OF HIS KIND??????

No? For the love of...

THASSARIAN... AHA! Check and mate.
06/29/2018 06:53 AMPosted by Smedmore
06/28/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Zerkon
How many threads, and cries of aganoy must we endure before we are listend to?

I *like* dual-wield frost.

...and that's great for you I'm glad you enjoy it but what about everyone else who enjoyed 2H frost? Wouldn't you be upset if they stripped DW away from you after it having been in the game for a long time and a stable of your class? The amount of threads on various threads on fan sites and Reddit is overwhelming for the reinsertion of 2H Frost.

My whole argument is that for Death Knights Dual Wield Frost just doesn't make sense for them.
I've been saying this for some time now. One of the reasons I have no interest in leveling my DK is that Blizz killed a huge flavor aspect of the class.

Frost of all the specs should have never been made dual wield. The cold is slow moving yet powerful, while heat is fast and aggressive. just look at particles move in each condition, or look at the behavior of living organisms in cold climates and warm climates. Look at Arthas himself!!! Some may say he is more of an Unholy DK, but if anything he is a good mix of UH and Frost. Think back to Halls of Reflection, how Arthas just walks slowly towards you, blocking your way with ice barriers. Blizzard went completely counter-intuitive on this one...
06/29/2018 12:11 PMPosted by Ironghost
I've been saying this for some time now. One of the reasons I have no interest in leveling my DK is that Blizz killed a huge flavor aspect of the class.

Frost of all the specs should have never been made dual wield. The cold is slow moving yet powerful, while heat is fast and aggressive. just look at particles move in each condition, or look at the behavior of living organisms in cold climates and warm climates. Look at Arthas himself!!! Some may say he is more of an Unholy DK, but if anything he is a good mix of UH and Frost. Think back to Halls of Reflection, how Arthas just walks slowly towards you, blocking your way with ice barriers. Blizzard went completely counter-intuitive on this one...

I agree. I think they were just dead set on not giving us Frostmourne that they had to come up with some bogus storyline of compiling the shattered pieces to make that disgusting looking swords in Legion.

I mean it made more sense to give us Frostmourne that it was to bring back Ashbringer... a weapon that was deleted from the game years ago....
Daily bump for justice!
06/29/2018 12:34 PMPosted by Zerkon
I agree. I think they were just dead set on not giving us Frostmourne that they had to come up with some bogus storyline of compiling the shattered pieces to make that disgusting looking swords in Legion.
...and I didn't touch on this at all in my previous point. But this is truly a head-scratcher.

On a purely canonical level, you can't really say that Arthas was a Frost DK, because he's the progenitor; he is ALL specs. But... he's a Frost DK. Let's not pretend and lie around that fact. What is the most easily identifiable artifact in all of WoW? Well, your top 3 are The Doom Hammer, Frostmourne and Ashbringer... and I think anyone who answered one of those 3 wouldn't be trolling... but the Survey Says probably still puts Frostmourne at over 50% of that poll. Did they maybe not want Frost DKs to have it because it's "too iconic"? Maybe. Were they so tied to the idea of a dual-wielding Frost DK that destroying Frostmourne so that player DKs would wield fragments of it instead made more sense? It's actually totally nonsensical.

The sad thing is, they can never redo Legion and fix this. Frost DKs should have used a 2 Handed weapon, and gotten Frostmourne. I don't think there's really any sensible argument against this.

...again, if one DK spec must dual wield, give Unholy DKs a pair of swords named Death and Decay. Done deal. Yeah, I'd miss my 2 Handed Axe, but not with the same heartache Frost DKs miss (missed out on) Frostmourne.
06/29/2018 06:26 AMPosted by Raelhorn
06/29/2018 01:23 AMPosted by Catrei
Actually, Frost DK has always been about speed, agility and dual wielding.


Not sure where you got that from, to be honest. Frost DKs didn't start out as the "fast" spec, that originally went to Unholy DKs (looking at the original "presences" or stances that DKs kept up).

... actually, during WotLK, ALL DK specs were quite capable of both tanking and DPS. Another detail is that all three specs could use both 2h weapons and dual-wield, and there was no talent which really benefited dual-wielding initially. Frost was actually originally designed to be the TANK spec... but the decision early on to allow all three specs to both roles meant that each spec would evolve in unexpected ways.

Blood was the "standard" DPS spec, for lack of a better term. Blood Presence originally provided a 15% damage boost and 2% leech; the Blood Aura talent also granted party members (and yourself) an extra 2% leech. The self-healing aspect was ALWAYS there, which is what eventually led it to being the best tanking spec and eventually premier solo class in the whole game; "Effective Health" was also all the rage during WotLK, and I think Blood also had the extra health/stamina talents. When Cata came around, Blood became the dedicated tank spec.

Frost started out as a "classic tank" type of spec, with Frost Presence providing extra armor and stamina. The Frost Aura talent also boosted all your spell resistances (though the game stopped caring about them nearly entirely shortly thereafter). Howling Blast was burst AoE damage, great for picking up adds; and many other talents were definitely well focused for tanking. Unfortunately, the way WotLK went, Frost was simply the least-played spec for BOTH tanking and DPS... and Blizz didn't fight it. Later in WotLK, Frost actually did gain the "Threat of Thassarian" dual-wielding talent which allowed the more strike-focused abilities to hit with both weapons... and since dual-wielding almost ALWAYS out-paces two-handed weapons when scaling in the same spec, Frost became the dual-wielding spec from then on.

Unholy was the "weird" spec from the get go. Unholy Presence provided something like 10-15% haste and a 10% run speed buff, and the Unholy Aura talent increased the party's run speed by 10%... but no one ever used Unholy Presence for combat, the flat damage boost from Blood Presence was just better (and the leech was nice, though only you had it). It always had the permanent minion, but I don't remember if it had Dark Transformation initially; it also had three diseases instead of the base two, with the third increasing the damage taken by diseases. There was also a passive chance for diseases to deal AoE damage with every tick, so the AoE damage scaling was pretty much exponential; Unholy just applied and spread all it's diseases, followed by watching the numbers fly. However, Unholy was originally a VERY powerful tank spec due to one talent - Bone Shield; the original version had a long recast time and a set number of charges... but with the 60%+ avoidance of the WotLK era (it was so bad tanks were spam-healed constantly, even at full health, in case the boss actually landed two hits in a row), Bone Shield lasted almost indefinitely and was effectively a permanent defensive cooldown. But it wasn't to last, and when Bone Shield was moved to Blood (in Cata I think) and they firmed up the roles for all three specs.

---

The sad tale of 2h Frost is a bit two-fold.

First off, if Frost was the "successful" tank spec, it would have likely stayed a 2h spec; it just makes more sense there. Two-handed weapons means less attacks in general, and less attacks means less parries, and slower boss swing speeds from fewer parries; not to mention it also gave a bit more health because of how stats worked. You'll notice that there wasn't a dual-wielding tank spec until Demon Hunters in Legion, who simply dual-wield ALL the time.

The other sad part about 2h Frost was that it was allowed to survive after WotLK... the evolution of the spec pushed it towards dual-wielding, and the way the game scales, 2h versions of specs capable of dual-wielding pretty much NEVER keep up. There was always something to try and close to gap between dual-wielding and 2h Frost, but it was always futile. When Legion came along and Artifacts mean everyone would be locked into a certain weapon type... two swords forged from the shards of Frostmourne, rather than Frostmourne itself, was the only reasonable conclusion.

... maybe one day DKs will get the original Frostmourne for themselves, but it'll likely be quite a while in any case.

The game evolved in ways Blizz did not really intend... and they just went with the flow rather than try and fight it.


All of this is true--I was there for it all (though I'll admit that I didn't delve that deeply into the whys and wherefores of it at the time), and still miss my Blood dps death knight. Once I got used to 2h Frost, I was more or less fine with it. And now, that's been taken away as well and I'm stuck with dual wielding. All of that adds up to: Never forgiving Blizzard. Never.

Yes, all of that is true about the evolution of Frost and the weapons and all--and even logical in the scheme of things--but that doesn't mean we have to like it. /grumble
I do prefer 2H FDKs and I did hate Blizzard a lot for taking it from us.
However, when they introduced the fast-paced spec frost was during a portion of Legion (ToS and antorus), I did enjoy it. If FDKs were still frost paced in BfA, which they totally aren't, I'd still be fine with it. Of course I liked 2H frost more, but it was feasible during Legion at least.
But now we're just dumb specs that just presses whatever lightens up, and go AFK when everything is on CD (which happens a loooot on BfA).
06/28/2018 11:25 PMPosted by Xyona
there has to be a baseline passive or talent that allows frost dks to use 2 handed and 1 handed..


There used to be it was called Might of the Frozen Wastes. If you dual wielded you took Killing Machine if you went 2H you took MotFW but sadly...prune prune prune...
Made this guy during Wrath, 2H Frost was always my favorite. Big Obliterate hits were the best. DW just isn't the same, and I've never been a big fan of Unholy, so now he's mostly a 10th or 11th in line alt. I never even got him two legendaries.
06/28/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Zerkon
The theme of Dual Wielding just doesn't fit Death Knights at all

I can agree with this.
06/28/2018 08:35 PMPosted by Dookgrookem
06/28/2018 04:36 PMPosted by Tyberim
Fun was detected and removed, as is tradition.

It was kinda ironic that they scrapped 2H frost and then turned around and gave everyone artifact weapons which didn't include the most Iconic sword in the game since WC3: The Frozen Throne because they had already made frost dual wield.

So they had to come up with some half baked plot about how making two swords of the scraps of Frostmourne is EVEN BETTER than that dusty old thing!
No its not Blizz, you just goofed up and are trying to cover your goof.

Everyone wanted to run around with Frostmourne, not some new weapon you just made up out of thin air.


Looking back it worked out since we'd all die more inside when it explodes. I'm still not sure how I'll handle it happening to Ashbringer.
Fellow DK main here, have been ever since wrath launched. I sincerely hope they revisit 2H frost, Loved playing that spec in Ulduar especially with the frost relic.
I used to love my DK. After I tried them out in the Wrath beta I was so into my DK. Blood DPS was amazingly fun. Dark Anti-Paladin who wore plate and swung a big two-hander and leeched life away from his enemies.

Then they simplified the class and made Blood spec tank only. It was a kick in the balls but I endured it. I still had much of the same Anti-Paladin feel, I still bashed people with my big two-hander.

Then another kick in the balls, they took the two-hander away, forced everyone to Dual Wield. I tried to endure it, I switched to DW in WoD for a while, but it just does not work for me. Completely sucks the aesthetic fun out of the class. My DK has been mostly shelved during Legion, and I don't see him coming off the shelf anytime soon. Mostly because of forced DW.
06/28/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Zerkon
cries of aganoy

Working as intended.
they have been taking weapons away from classes for a long time. i wouldn't expect it to come back... if it does enhance shammies will want to be able to 2h again. and then ret pallies will want dual wield... and everything will be no fun.

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