reduce incentives for low-end LFG content

General Discussion
07/16/2018 01:58 AMPosted by Raistmajere
The issue is that people aren't playing the game at that point. Is the new player in that situation enjoying themselves?


I tried to care about everyone i met in the random dungeon finder back in wrath when it was implemented. It worked, for a time. As cata dungeons rolled around and people were actually required to start coordinating and working together to conquer them people stopped being so nice.

At this point with LFD, LFR and CRZ my care for people i will never see ever again, who i am not even allowed to interact with beyond running the dungeon with, is VERY limited.

07/16/2018 01:58 AMPosted by Patchs
It'll just hurt the actual dungeon experience for the undergeared / new players, IMO, to have a ilvl 930 zerglord soloing the whole dungeon.


I tried being mr. nice guy. I'm sure others tried too. Only to be repeatedly and endlessly burned. Well now we have no feeling left thanks to people burning us. The presence of other people in the dungeon is completely inconsequential at this point. So it shall be again shortly after BFA launches. So it was at the start of legion.

The only way to put an end to it is to actually threaten people with death (which slows down the run,) you can't put even minorly difficult mechanics in random heroics or it'll be cataclysm 2.0.
Honestly if Blizzard really cared about the issue, they could just force-lock players into the spec upon joining the random group dungeon the same way PvP does. Premade groups of 5 or those entering specific dungeons would be exempt from this rule.
07/16/2018 02:02 AMPosted by Sayuri
i'd like for you to be able to speed solo by yourself, without affecting the run of others.


I've decided to take this video down because the audio issues bother me more than they did last time.
[quote="207642983770"]It'll just hurt the actual dungeon experience for the undergeared / new players, IMO, to have a ilvl 930 zerglord soloing the whole dungeon.


I tried being mr. nice guy. I'm sure others tried too. Only to be repeatedly and endlessly burned. Well now we have no feeling left thanks to people burning us. The presence of other people in the dungeon is completely inconsequential at this point. So it shall be again shortly after BFA launches. So it was at the start of legion.

The only way to put an end to it is to actually threaten people with death (which slows down the run,) you can't put even minorly difficult mechanics in random heroics or it'll be cataclysm 2.0.
Or not give overgeared players big incentives to do trivial content like random heroics.
At this point with LFD, LFR and CRZ my care for people i will never see ever again, who i am not even allowed to interact with beyond running the dungeon with, is VERY limited.
Me, I just kind of gave up on running random dungeons regardless of incentive.

It's not about any individual player, it's the health of the game overall. There are a lot of jerky people that you meet in LFD/LFR, but if you assume everyone is like that and treat them poorly then you become one of the jerky players.
07/16/2018 02:10 AMPosted by Shippujinlai
07/16/2018 02:02 AMPosted by Sayuri
i'd like for you to be able to speed solo by yourself, without affecting the run of others.


For you my dear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dp5ghutUaE

i don't think you're understanding me.

i'm saying that i'd like to remove any incentive for you to use the LFG tool over just soloing the dungeon if you're intent on soloing it regardless of whichever you use.

to be more specific, i'm saying that for a system like Wakening Essence, which is valuable to players at all gear levels, rewarding it through LFG heroic queue makes the geared players miserable and gives nothing but stress and frustration to inexperienced players.

i think that any incentives to run content that's significantly below a player's gear level should be similarly significantly below anything they would consider rewarding.

so basically, when i say that i'd like for you to be able to speed solo something on your own, i mean that i'd like if you weren't given a meaningful incentive to use the LFG tool for the same dungeon you're capable of soloing at a fast pace.
07/16/2018 02:25 AMPosted by Sayuri
to be more specific, i'm saying that for a system like Wakening Essence, which is valuable to players at all gear levels, rewarding it through LFG heroic queue makes the geared players miserable and gives nothing but stress and frustration to inexperienced players.


Like i said before, blizzard did this on purpose. It's no accident that they made this system and put it in places to encourage people to participate.

Ever wonder why they don't provide the essences for soloing the dungeon or even for forming your own group and running to the dungeon? Because it's there to get people to queue up.

07/16/2018 02:25 AMPosted by Sayuri
so basically, when i say that i'd like for you to be able to speed solo something on your own, i mean that i'd like if you weren't given a meaningful incentive to use the LFG tool for the same dungeon you're capable of soloing at a fast pace.


Back in mop-wod i used to do this for fun, before they added M+ to provide me with actually challenging content to dig into. Boredom can be quite the motivator in and of itself you know.
I've done this so many times as well. You would hate me too original poster.
what worries me about just locking specs and doing nothing else is two things

one, it wouldn't address the ridiculous pace that some people decide to run the dungeons at. "i don't know where to go because i got left behind" is a pretty common complaint from newer players, from what i can tell.

and two, say your tank gets vote kicked or leaves mid-run. lots of groups would prefer to have one of their DPS swap to tank and keep pulling until they get a dedicated tank instead of sitting around doing nothing. i'd like to preserve that functionality at least to some degree.

for example -- what if it locked you to the spec you queued as, but if a specific role left (not vote-kicked, to prevent abuse), it allows you to switch between your queued role and the role that is no longer in the party?
Sorry it took a bit, had to hit the books. Yeah I see your point about the pace. Although with the swapping specs, it's almost always ended up badly for me, whether its on my main or alts. It's just desperation (can't think of a better word) that I'd rather just have spec locks at this point.
07/16/2018 01:58 AMPosted by Patchs
Blizzard did this on purpose, to get high geared players into low level groups to make them go faster.
If that's the case then that is a horrible idea.

It'll just hurt the actual dungeon experience for the undergeared / new players, IMO, to have a ilvl 930 zerglord soloing the whole dungeon.


i had to read this a few times, and check your armory, to really accept that 930 to you is zerglord. i'm 936 and only do argus/lfr. rofl
Gee, if I'm tanking I'll stop and pop somebody a heal if the feral who is pretending to be healer doesn't heal them when they need it.
07/16/2018 02:03 AMPosted by Wariya
07/16/2018 01:48 AMPosted by Spazlord
OP is spot on. Don’t put daily things that geared players want in easy content that they don’t want to do. It’s stupid.


But it works because ppl do it and have been doing it for 10 + years and will continue to do it because they lack any sort of self control

Maybe it time for you guys to try the alternative solution and not do it. 10 + YEAR of meh forced should be enough to warrant that don't you think


I don’t do heroics, they are annoying, but I miss out on wakening essence that I could have used to get a few more legendaries.

I don’t do world quests much either. In fact I don’t do any content that find too tedious due to the complete lack of challenge. I play this game to fight things that can fight back, not breathe on bits of paper that fall over. Rewards be damned.
Here's the thing: you could have voted to kick. You didn't. One of your DPS didn't even think it was a real problem.

I get why it's frustrating, but you had a tool at your disposal you failed to use to correct the problem. That's kinda on you.
if i was a dev i'd just like.. ninja a patch in where if a person queues for a role but they do not SPEC into the role then they do not get thier reward, and it goes away for that day entirely.

tanks are already stupidly overpowered, they do dps levels of damage, healer level of self healing and they dont take damage anyway AND even a somewhat average (say 915-920) geared healer can do well over half a million dps but can still dispell the things or drop a single heal on the ilvl 831 guy so they arent stomped by the 10 groups that just got pulled

/shrug
07/16/2018 08:02 PMPosted by Misskathryn
if i was a dev i'd just like.. ninja a patch in where if a person queues for a role but they do not SPEC into the role then they do not get thier reward, and it goes away for that day entirely.

tanks are already stupidly overpowered, they do dps levels of damage, healer level of self healing and they dont take damage anyway AND even a somewhat average (say 915-920) geared healer can do well over half a million dps but can still dispell the things or drop a single heal on the ilvl 831 guy so they arent stomped by the 10 groups that just got pulled

/shrug

Clearly you aren't running an ilvl addon. People of all ilvls from 830-980 get grouped together. The idea that all tanks are even 900 is wishful thinking on your part. I've run into plenty of low ilvl tanks while healing.
Blizzard often nerfs content it no longer considers current so as to accelerate players into the content it does consider current.

I think their intentional decision to lure overgeared characters into heroics is an example of this. They know it basically eliminates the original design of that content and replaces it with a meaningless zerg fest, but to be fair it is helping to get alts and new characters ready to go where the action is, which for dungeons is currently mythic+.

So my feeling is, as along as all party members were able to get their rewards and quest items or whatever else they needed (probably not gear, since much better gear is available for near free from WQ and Argus), then no harm no foul.

Although I'd say my pride would not allow me to as a healer allow others to die, unless they were willfully misbehaving in some way.
The one problem I have with spec locking is say the tank d/c's. The healer knows how to and is willing to tank and one of the dps has a heal offset. This situation arises a lot and sometimes players do need to switch mid run d/t reasons. Locking people to specs for a LFG I think would cause more problems than it solves.
Uh.... in the very least you should lose all bonus rewards (satchel) when you change spec as those rewards are for the spec they qued up in. Get real.

As it stands now dps change spec then que for tank or heals, get to jump the line, get a satchel for doing it and screw over teammates for changing back to dps once in.

Also i think if you change spec really often the game should detect that and adjust your que to be longer every time for it.... unless a dps changes to heals or tank then i could see letting it go.

Hello?
Jerks will be jerks. I have run a few heroics as a healer and I always stay heal spec even if the group is crazy overgeared for it. Sure I will do as much DPS as I can but I never run ahead of tank and always keep healing as #1 priority.
07/16/2018 08:40 PMPosted by Solarslam
you should lose all bonus rewards (satchel) when you change spec as those rewards are for the spec they qued up in.

Devil's advocate: there is already a way to lose those rewards: by not completing the dungeon. If the dungeon is completed, it must be that the requirements for all three roles were satisfied. In the context of massively over-geared content, it is not accurate to say that the ability to do a role is defined by being in a particular spec.

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