Why is Ion afraid of answering why they broke guild permissions?

General Discussion
Why is there only IS officer or is not officer and I can't individually set anything anymore? WHY was it one of the most upvoted questions on the forums and ignored? WHY won't you tell us why you took away what meager tools we had devs?

Every guild leader logged on to WoW after the patch with no ability to determine whether non-officers could do the following: Edit their own player notes, speak in officer chat (Which many used for other reasons), and a whole laundry list of abilities we would all control in our own ways to best suit the function our guilds required.

Now it's all lumped under a single checkbox called "is officer."

During the Q&A they answered softball questions instead of that any of the other more popular questions. I'm sorry people who had great questions. We're going to spend the time talking about stat squishes 2-4 years down the line from now instead.

So again I ask, though It'll probably be ignored once again.. Fix our guilds! Or at least tell us how you will!
Please papa blizz, give us guild control back.
Because they no longer care about guilds. They want you to join a Community. Guilds are pointless now. Didn't you get the memo?
07/19/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Mezilrin
Why is there only IS officer or is not officer and I can't individually set anything anymore? WHY was it one of the most upvoted questions on the forums and ignored? WHY won't you tell us why you took away what meager tools we had devs?

Every guild leader logged on to WoW after the patch with no ability to determine whether non-officers could do the following: Edit their own player notes, speak in officer chat (Which many used for other reasons), and a whole laundry list of abilities we would all control in our own ways to best suit the function our guilds required.

Now it's all lumped under a single checkbox called "is officer."

During the Q&A they answered softball questions instead of that any of the other more popular questions. I'm sorry people who had great questions. We're going to spend the time talking about stat squishes 2-4 years down the line from now instead.

So again I ask, though It'll probably be ignored once again.. Fix our guilds! Or at least tell us how you will!


I'm putting my money on phasing out guilds totally and pushing the less structured communities on us.
I don't like it either. Also we can no longer see how long someone has been offline unless we click on them and we can no longer sort people by offline. Would also like to be able to see how many members my guild has again too.
07/19/2018 12:20 PMPosted by Xalea
Because they no longer care about guilds. They want you to join a Community. Guilds are pointless now. Didn't you get the memo?


And it seems that communities are capping at 200, according to some things I'm reading. Not even giving us more room for communities.

They're giving us all these "tools and functions" to making things "better", but in each of these things there's a massive lack of permissions - both community and guild alike. What's the point of being able to add more text channels to these things when you only can limit "is moderator", for instance.
Because he's Ion Hasntgotaclue.
07/19/2018 12:22 PMPosted by Strog
I don't like it either. Also we can no longer see how long someone has been offline unless we click on them and we can no longer sort people by offline. Would also like to be able to see how many members my guild has again too.


Which guild leader signed up for sort by achievement points? Not me..... I don't even know any that care about it...?
07/19/2018 12:21 PMPosted by Minusthemoon
07/19/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Mezilrin
Why is there only IS officer or is not officer and I can't individually set anything anymore? WHY was it one of the most upvoted questions on the forums and ignored? WHY won't you tell us why you took away what meager tools we had devs?

Every guild leader logged on to WoW after the patch with no ability to determine whether non-officers could do the following: Edit their own player notes, speak in officer chat (Which many used for other reasons), and a whole laundry list of abilities we would all control in our own ways to best suit the function our guilds required.

Now it's all lumped under a single checkbox called "is officer."

During the Q&A they answered softball questions instead of that any of the other more popular questions. I'm sorry people who had great questions. We're going to spend the time talking about stat squishes 2-4 years down the line from now instead.

So again I ask, though It'll probably be ignored once again.. Fix our guilds! Or at least tell us how you will!


I'm putting my money on phasing out guilds totally and pushing the less structured communities on us.

and how exactly are they going to compensate those who have items and money stored in those guilds. that would be a excellent way to kill your game completely since very few people would be left after such a decision and losing all their stuff if blizz didn't compensate them.
07/19/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Mezilrin
I can't individually set anything anymore? WHY was it one of the most upvoted questions on the forums and ignored?


Looker's team don't like player freedom. Ever since WoD, they've ratched down on player freedom every opportunity they get. They want to control as many aspects of our gameplay experience as possible. Can't even pick fullscreen anymore.
07/19/2018 12:29 PMPosted by Breadisfunny
<span class="truncated">...</span>

I'm putting my money on phasing out guilds totally and pushing the less structured communities on us.

and how exactly are they going to compensate those who have items and money stored in those guilds. that would be a excellent way to kill your game completely since very few people would be left after such a decision and losing all their stuff if blizz didn't compensate them.


IDK but go look at the guild achievements for getting the extra tabs and stuff. Its all gone. Something fishy is going on with guild structure and they aren't talking about it.

And i don't mean deleting guilds just making the structure of them of no value.
07/19/2018 12:33 PMPosted by Meemuu
07/19/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Mezilrin
I can't individually set anything anymore? WHY was it one of the most upvoted questions on the forums and ignored?


Looker's team don't like player freedom. Ever since WoD, they've ratched down on player freedom every opportunity they get. They want to control as many aspects of our gameplay experience as possible. Can't even pick fullscreen anymore.


Guild leaders already had pathetic control of the guilds compared to many other MMOs. Now it's like they wrapped us in bubble wrap so we won't hurt ourselves in the sandbox that's already surrounded with safety walls. Basically adding insult to injury.
07/19/2018 12:38 PMPosted by Mezilrin
Guild leaders already had pathetic control of the guilds compared to many other MMOs. Now it's like they wrapped us in bubble wrap so we won't hurt ourselves in the sandbox that's already surrounded with safety walls. Basically adding insult to injury.


Fits in with the change to forced Personal Loot, I guess.
07/19/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Minusthemoon
07/19/2018 12:29 PMPosted by Breadisfunny

and how exactly are they going to compensate those who have items and money stored in those guilds. that would be a excellent way to kill your game completely since very few people would be left after such a decision and losing all their stuff if blizz didn't compensate them.


IDK but go look at the guild achievements for getting the extra tabs and stuff. Its all gone. Something fishy is going on with guild structure and they aren't talking about it.

And i don't mean deleting guilds just making the structure of them of no value.


The guild achievements tab has always been pale in comparison to the character achievements since they took out the leveling system for guilds. The only things ever added to it was modifying the classy achievement and adding newest content raid achievements for completion of that raid on normal/heroic and mythic.

Would love for an answer somewhere in the last few threads that have popped up relating to guild changes.
I'm sure the idea was to incorporate the new voice chat feature in permissions without making it too complicated (both on their end and ours). The complexity is what we need, though. Our guilds are often not just "is officer or is not officer." Instead of lumping all officer permissions into one, why not just add and/or modify existing permissions? Officer voice and chat log moderation does complicate this, but there are really simple solutions that don't restrict our ability to manage our guilds.

Officer Voice Solution 1:
Tie the ability to use officer voice chat to "officerchat speak" and "officerchat listen" such that the voice portion works exactly the same. If you have "officer chat speak" checked, that rank can speak in officer voice, and if you have "officerchat listen" you can listen to officer voice.

Officer Voice Solution 2:
Create an entirely unique permission "officer voice" that entirely enables access to the officer voice channel.

Both of these solutions are perfectly reasonable things to ask for and accomplish from a programming perspective.

Also, the dash-based bullets under the new "Is Officer" could all be individual permissions in general. Why even keep "promote/demote/invite/remove" separate from officer? Those seem like officer roles, yet editing public notes is specifically an officer's job now? It would also be nice to be able to differentiate chat log moderators (people who can delete messages) from officers. I also cannot allow people to create guild events that aren't officers now. Why does "is officer" have the ability to delete other people's events if nobody can even create one unless they ARE an officer? I'm not seeing the logic here.

A lot of guilds use public notes to allow individual raiders to update their item level and spec. Now, nobody can edit their public notes unless "Is Officer" is checked. At least make it so they can edit their own note regardless of rank please. Maybe this was unintentional, but it's debilitating to certain aspects of guild planning. Being able to control who can see and/or edit which notes (public or officer) is extremely important to guild communication. We shouldn't have to use addons to work around this.

A note on guild channel creation, too. Why is there only a "moderators only" permission for this? Considering how restrictive the new officer permission is, shouldn't there be a dropdown to enable/disable different guild ranks access to this? Why even give us the one checkbox at that point?

Please incorporate a "last online" sorting method. Currently I have to open the grandfathered /guildroster frame to access that information, OR I have to individually click people's names to get the "last online" info. This is extremely tedious for inactive pruning.

Ultimately, the lumping of all these permissions into one category is a hindrance to guild management. I can no longer effectively differentiate between different types of officers, nor can I enable members to do things that members should be able to do. I can't even give non-officers access to officer chat. Please just give us individual permissions back. With all the new features, we need more customization not less.
07/19/2018 12:28 PMPosted by Mezilrin
Which guild leader signed up for sort by achievement points? Not me..... I don't even know any that care about it...?
That's been there since Cataclysm.
07/19/2018 12:22 PMPosted by Strog
I don't like it either. Also we can no longer see how long someone has been offline unless we click on them and we can no longer sort people by offline. Would also like to be able to see how many members my guild has again too.


Add this to my master list. Of all the issues with this new UI, I didn't even notice that yet. Thank you.
07/19/2018 12:47 PMPosted by Leucie
I'm sure the idea was to incorporate the new voice chat feature in permissions without making it too complicated (both on their end and ours). The complexity is what we need, though. Our guilds are often not just "is officer or is not officer." Instead of lumping all officer permissions into one, why not just add and/or modify existing permissions? Officer voice and chat log moderation does complicate this, but there are really simple solutions that don't restrict our ability to manage our guilds.

Officer Voice Solution 1:
Tie the ability to use officer voice chat to "officerchat speak" and "officerchat listen" such that the voice portion works exactly the same. If you have "officer chat speak" checked, that rank can speak in officer voice, and if you have "officerchat listen" you can listen to officer voice.

Officer Voice Solution 2:
Create an entirely unique permission "officer voice" that entirely enables access to the officer voice channel.

Both of these solutions are perfectly reasonable things to ask for and accomplish from a programming perspective.

Also, the dash-based bullets under the new "Is Officer" could all be individual permissions in general. Why even keep "promote/demote/invite/remove" separate from officer? Those seem like officer roles, yet editing public notes is specifically an officer's job now? It would also be nice to be able to differentiate chat log moderators (people who can delete messages) from officers. I also cannot allow people to create guild events that aren't officers now. Why does "is officer" have the ability to delete other people's events if nobody can even create one unless they ARE an officer? I'm not seeing the logic here.

A lot of guilds use public notes to allow individual raiders to update their item level and spec. Now, nobody can edit their public notes unless "Is Officer" is checked. At least make it so they can edit their own note regardless of rank please. Maybe this was unintentional, but it's debilitating to certain aspects of guild planning. Being able to control who can see and/or edit which notes (public or officer) is extremely important to guild communication. We shouldn't have to use addons to work around this.

A note on guild channel creation, too. Why is there only a "moderators only" permission for this? Considering how restrictive the new officer permission is, shouldn't there be a dropdown to enable/disable different guild ranks access to this? Why even give us the one checkbox at that point?

Please incorporate a "last online" sorting method. Currently I have to open the grandfathered /guildroster frame to access that information, OR I have to individually click people's names to get the "last online" info. This is extremely tedious for inactive pruning.

Ultimately, the lumping of all these permissions into one category is a hindrance to guild management. I can no longer effectively differentiate between different types of officers, nor can I enable members to do things that members should be able to do. I can't even give non-officers access to officer chat. Please just give us individual permissions back. With all the new features, we need more customization not less.


Quoting for emphasis.
Probably because that's a trick question. Something not working how you want it to work doesn't mean that something is broken. Would it be nice to have those options separate again, sure. But change happens.
07/19/2018 12:49 PMPosted by Forums
07/19/2018 12:28 PMPosted by Mezilrin
Which guild leader signed up for sort by achievement points? Not me..... I don't even know any that care about it...?
That's been there since Cataclysm.

It would be nice if the achievement points in the guild menu were account wide, like the regular system. I don't play this character much anymore but it has a majority of my points. It's more of a pride thing.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum