Was Legion WoW's biggest success?

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WoTLK was the biggest success WoW has ever had.

Legion was great though. But it had some issues though. There is a reason why Wrath is considered the absolute best expansion by most players.
07/06/2018 02:42 PMPosted by Nasix
They must have some serious internal problems with that xpac.

I do recall Blizzard losing and/or moving a lot key developers/writers off of the WoW team at that time. Probably just a result of a patchwork dev team which led to a patchwork expansion that had to meet a deadline.

It seems like they at least have a rebuilt dedicated team again, and now we are getting better built xpacs. Though the writing team still leaves a lot to be desired.
Legion was my first Xpac, so it's obviously my favorite.
But from the perspective of a new player who has at this point leveled a lot of alts I feel like I can honestly say that Legion just felt like the systems and the questing and the endgame just clicked. Leveling though past expansions into this one around the beginning of 2016 I really felt like I was seeing the evolution of quest design. It went from confusing to streamlined.

Now that I have a little experience under my belt, I understand why RNG Legendaries were so hated- I still don't have those bracers. But as a new player who was scared of group content getting that first Legendary was thrilling and I'll never forget it. Prydaz, from a Nightborne Cache. I really did feel like Blizz was thinking of the little guy. And it felt good. I was proud of that necklace, and my little bubble.
I don't think Legion could ever compare to past expansions like Wrath (which, sadly, I missed) simply because Wrath was the high-water mark in terms of community size and engagement, and I'm not sure WoW will ever get there again.
But for me, even though I've done some complaining, taken a long break, and am still learning, Legion will always be the Xpac where I fell in love with this game, and found my place/footing in this crazy world.
9/10.
Not by a long shot. It might have done better than Cataclysm but that isn't saying much. As for mop and wod, they're pretty late expansions so they're automatically going to have a less players.

You can't really compare the "golden days" of wow to these days, there were just way more players. Does it mean the expansions were better? Yes and no.

I'm not a fan of Legion and I'd rather play any other expansion at this point. The scaling patch was the last nail in the coffin. It made an already mediocre expansion somewhat bad. I know what they were trying to do, ripping core aspects from Diablo and inserting them into a mmo. Epic fail. Why didn't we get the cube? I'm sure they would have found a way to make it awful.
Legion ranks up there with LK content for best expansion and I really do feel like they redeemed themselves after the mess that was WoD.
It depends how we are defining most successful. Financially? More than likely. Award-winning? Possibly. Beloved by the players? I don't know... I think people are going to remember "most people loved ...." that matches their own personal opinions, so I am not going to fall into that trap myself. :)
07/06/2018 02:55 PMPosted by Zeropointt
Legion was my first Xpac, so it's obviously my favorite.
But from the perspective of a new player who has at this point leveled a lot of alts I feel like I can honestly say that Legion just felt like the systems and the questing and the endgame just clicked. Leveling though past expansions into this one around the beginning of 2016 I really felt like I was seeing the evolution of quest design. It went from confusing to streamlined.

Now that I have a little experience under my belt, I understand why RNG Legendaries were so hated- I still don't have those bracers. But as a new player who was scared of group content getting that first Legendary was thrilling and I'll never forget it. Prydaz, from a Nightborne Cache. I really did feel like Blizz was thinking of the little guy. And it felt good. I was proud of that necklace, and my little bubble.
I don't think Legion could ever compare to past expansions like Wrath (which, sadly, I missed) simply because Wrath was the high-water mark in terms of community size and engagement, and I'm not sure WoW will ever get there again.
But for me, even though I've done some complaining, taken a long break, and am still learning, Legion will always be the Xpac where I fell in love with this game, and found my place/footing in this crazy world.
9/10.

Awww welcome! New players are amazing, I glad you liked it. Yes to me, of course, Cata is the best expansion because that's when I was opened to the true amazingness of WoW. Legion, however, is when I got to actually enjoy the game as a 'veteran' player. (not sure if as a cata baby I could yet but oh well, I know what I'm doing now.)

07/06/2018 02:59 PMPosted by Meritha
It depends how we are defining most successful. Financially? More than likely. Award-winning? Possibly. Beloved by the players? I don't know... I think people are going to remember "most people loved ...." that matches their own personal opinions, so I am not going to fall into that trap myself. :)

Good point. It all really comes down to each individual's matter of perspective. There's some things that tick me off about Legion (*cough*cachemounts*cough*) but otherwise it's been a fun ride, and I'm excited for what BfA has in store.
doing something unique doesn't mean that it was success, number mean success and if you go by that then WOTLK was the most success xpack ever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCr7y4SLhck
absolutely not burning crusade was
Look at the subs--oh wait, we can't.

No.
07/06/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Katemarsh
I'm pretty sure Wrath or BC had many, many more players.
yeah, BC and Wrath, specifically Wrath were wows biggest successes. Wrath was the expansion where wow reached it's peak playerbase, no expansion has seen the same numbers since.

That isn't to say that legion wasn't great, and that it can't be your favorite, but objectively speaking, wrath should be considered wows biggest success.
I think it depends on how you define success. Player count alone isn't a success measure. You can nitpick on the micro level design decisions and that's justified but when you're defining "was it successful" you have to look at it holistically and on a macro level and Legion was just that, successful.

We have so many goals when we go into an expansion(especially Legion) and you hear Ion talk about it a lot. I think when you look at it from that perspective Legion was one of the bigger success in the franchise in my honest opinion. I mean the biggest win(I think) was content/patch cadence. Legion has had a very steady stream the entire expansion cycle. We're only what 6ish months since 7.3.5 and BfA is barely a month away. That's almost half the time historically between the final patch to expansion launch for almost every expansion.

Even if you look at it from the raid tier perspective if you don't like 7.3.5 being defined as the final content patch, its still just under 9 months. That's still faster than almost every expansion since TBC>Wrath(8 months) and Classic>TBC(5 months). From a technical and player standpoint that's a huge win when you look at it in the context of how big of a feat that actually is for the game.

All in all Legion was a huge success and a pretty big win from a player standpoint I feel.

Edit: Just clarifying cause some people are not reading what I'm saying. I'm not saying Legion was the biggest success, I'm saying it was a success.
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Thirded


That might be true, but its hard to compare them right now. Wrath has the benefit of Rose tinted glasses. No one remembers the hate for wrath that was very active at the time (Wrath was too easy, it ruined dungeon game play, LFD killed community interaction, etc, etc)

At the end of Wrath, all anyone was talking about is how the game was better in BC and Vanilla, and how they hoped Cata would fix it.

My main point is Legion is getting near universal praise BEFORE the flaws of the expansion have faded into memory


Yeah, no. Wrath was fantastic from beginning to end. I remember the hate, and I remember it was all pretty much groundless.

Wrath wasnt too easy, it was only easy if you played the easy modes. The first raid tier was a pushover, but Hardmode Ulduar was brutal. Trial of the Grand Crusader would kick you in the balls and leave you crying for mommy. Heroic Lich King was the hardest boss ever made at that point in the game, and Heroic Sindragosa wasnt far behind.

Wrath was plenty hard if you actually pursued the challenging parts of the game. The reason people complained was because in TBC, everything was challenging and there was nothing for casuals to do other than run Heroics. Wrath was where the devs pulled their heads out of their asses and decided that maybe locking 90% of the playerbase out of the content they paid for wasnt sustainable.

LFD killed community interactions, but that was no huge loss when the vast majority of the community was and still is made up of people that I dont want to be interacting with anyway. Not to mention it made running dungeons a breeze rather than a chore, so I'd say the trade was worth it.

The only expansion that was even close to as good as Wrath was MoP, and the complaints about that expansion were equally ridiculous and groundless.
07/06/2018 03:13 PMPosted by Ythisens
I think it depends on how you define success. Player count alone isn't a success measure. You can nitpick on the micro level design decisions and that's justified but when you're defining "was it successful" you have to look at it holistically and on a macro level and Legion was.

We have so many goals when we go into an expansion(especially Legion) and you hear Ion talk about it a lot. I think when you look at it from that perspective Legion was one of the bigger success in the franchise in my honest opinion. I mean the biggest win(I think) was content/patch cadence. Legion has had a very steady stream the entire expansion cycle. We're only what 6ish months since 7.3.5 and BfA is barely a month away. That's almost half the time historically between the final patch to pre patch for almost every expansion.

Even if you look at it from the raid tier perspective if you don't like 7.3.5 being defined as the final content patch, its still just under 9 months. That's still faster than almost every expansion since TBC>Wrath(8 months) and Classic>TBC(5 months). From a technical and player standpoint that's a huge win when you look at it in the context of how big of a feat that actually is for the game.

All in all Legion was a huge success and a pretty big win from a player standpoint I feel.


It was nothing to write home for your average player, i feel. Community has a big part in player enjoyment as well. You can have the best content you have ever put out, in the current game, but if you have nobody to play with then it is all for nothing in an MMO (for the most part). I know you didn't say player count doesn't matter, but i felt i should add that.

Legion was a success when compared to WOD, because of how awful of an expansion it was. I truly hope BFA competes with the experience most of us had during WOTLK.

BFA was pushed, largely, because your investors (subsidary of a publicly traded company/Activision) were pushing for it. You were starting to lose money in World of Warcraft, compared to your other games in the last year, while it wasn't an astronomical loss you still were losing money. The paperwork is there and public for anyone to read. Anyways...yes it's awesome you are pushing content out quickly, but I won't say it's AMAZING that you are doing so until we experience the content and it doesn't feel "rushed".
07/06/2018 03:13 PMPosted by Ythisens
I think it depends on how you define success. Player count alone isn't a success measure. You can nitpick on the micro level design decisions and that's justified but when you're defining "was it successful" you have to look at it holistically and on a macro level and Legion was.

We have so many goals when we go into an expansion(especially Legion) and you hear Ion talk about it a lot. I think when you look at it from that perspective Legion was one of the bigger success in the franchise in my honest opinion. I mean the biggest win(I think) was content/patch cadence. Legion has had a very steady stream the entire expansion cycle. We're only what 6ish months since 7.3.5 and BfA is barely a month away. That's almost half the time historically between the final patch to pre patch for almost every expansion.

Even if you look at it from the raid tier perspective if you don't like 7.3.5 being defined as the final content patch, its still just under 9 months. That's still faster than almost every expansion since TBC>Wrath(8 months) and Classic>TBC(5 months). From a technical and player standpoint that's a huge win when you look at it in the context of how big of a feat that actually is for the game.

All in all Legion was a huge success and a pretty big win from a player standpoint I feel.

100% agree with this.

Content drought was the biggest killer MoP and WoD, and you guys nailed it.
07/06/2018 02:38 PMPosted by Davoodoo
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Thirded


That might be true, but its hard to compare them right now. Wrath has the benefit of Rose tinted glasses. No one remembers the hate for wrath that was very active at the time (Wrath was too easy, it ruined dungeon game play, LFD killed community interaction, etc, etc)

At the end of Wrath, all anyone was talking about is how the game was better in BC and Vanilla, and how they hoped Cata would fix it.

My main point is Legion is getting near universal praise BEFORE the flaws of the expansion have faded into memory


Weird I played all of wrath and never heard a single person complain about it. In fact me and all my friends to this day miss the expansion.

It has the most iconic Evil Mastermind of almost any game. You can ask people who don't even play WoW if they know who the Lich King is and 9 times out of 10 they will instantly know. Go ask someone who Argus or Archimonde is that doesn't play WoW, they will be clueless.

I did every raid every week, even ones below me in gear score because of how much fun I was having.

How often do you see people doing that now adays? Nobody goes back and does EN unless it's for a specific transmog or achievement.

Meanwhile while ICC was out, I was going back and killing Malygos, Onyxia, clearing Naxx, Togc and Ulduar. And guess what transmog didn't even exist at that time, so I was doing it purely out of fun.

Communities where actually a thing back then too. I knew most everyone on my server because we raided together all the time! If you were good, people knew you, and you were proud of your accomplishments. While un-ironically having the highest player population, because people felt they were apart of something bigger. Now adays I don't know pretty much anyone on my server. They could be AI and I wouldn't even notice.

The zones where massive, vast and beautiful. The music themes for every zone was iconic. I can sit here right now while typing this and Humm the theme of Grizzly Hills or Borean Tundra. Ask me to do that for Gorgrond, I wouldn't even know where to start and played the whole expansion.

I could argue many more points easily, but you get the idea. It's iconic for a reason. Most people on this post say Wrath for a reason.
While content droughts are bad, an expansion to those specs who are not finished going into BFA is going to be hard. I am sure those people would of sat an extra month or two in a drought to come and feel like they are playing a finished spec. 8.1 for those people will be their start of the expansion.
07/06/2018 03:16 PMPosted by Tyberim
...

That might be true, but its hard to compare them right now. Wrath has the benefit of Rose tinted glasses. No one remembers the hate for wrath that was very active at the time (Wrath was too easy, it ruined dungeon game play, LFD killed community interaction, etc, etc)

At the end of Wrath, all anyone was talking about is how the game was better in BC and Vanilla, and how they hoped Cata would fix it.

My main point is Legion is getting near universal praise BEFORE the flaws of the expansion have faded into memory


Yeah, no. Wrath was fantastic from beginning to end. I remember the hate, and I remember it was all pretty much groundless.

Wrath wasnt too easy, it was only easy if you played the easy modes. The first raid tier was a pushover, but Hardmode Ulduar was brutal. Trial of the Grand Crusader would kick you in the balls and leave you crying for mommy. Heroic Lich King was the hardest boss ever made at that point in the game, and Heroic Sindragosa wasnt far behind.

Wrath was plenty hard if you actually pursued the challenging parts of the game. The reason people complained was because in TBC, everything was challenging and there was nothing for casuals to do other than run Heroics. Wrath was where the devs pulled their heads out of their asses and decided that maybe locking 90% of the playerbase out of the content they paid for wasnt sustainable.

LFD killed community interactions, but that was no huge loss when the vast majority of the community was and still is made up of people that I dont want to be interacting with anyway. Not to mention it made running dungeons a breeze rather than a chore, so I'd say the trade was worth it.

The only expansion that was even close to as good as Wrath was MoP, and the complaints about that expansion were equally ridiculous and groundless.

Personally, there were stretches during Wrath where I lost interest. While I do agree it was a great expansion, I am also on the overrated fence (not sure if I think it was or not).

I also don't know if I can attribute my feelings to burn out (played pretty continuously -with heavy raiding- since launch) and I remember when Ulduar came out, I just didn't want to "progress" through another raid instance.

Additionally, this was the time a lot of my guild went on semi/permanent break so I'm sure that also influences my opinion as a whole.

Legion and MoP have both been unbelievable expansions for me to play, but that is admittedly coming from a primarily solo player these days.
07/06/2018 02:21 PMPosted by Davoodoo
Obviously this will be heavily based on opinion, and people will disagree, but I've noticed something unique about this expansion.

Everyother expansion so far, by the end of the xpac, everyone is hating on it. The standard opinion is usually "Screw this xpac, lets get to the new one". Its typically not until some time has passed and players look back with a clearer head and start judging the xpac as a whole.

(Look at MoP for example. That expansion was mostly hated by most of the community for years. Its only recently that MoP has been getting more love)

Even the most beloved expansions (WotLK, BC) had this end-of-life negativity. (I can hear you typing already, YES this was the case)

Legion is the first time I'veever seen so many people praising the expansion even at the end of it's lifespan.

Does that mean Legion truly was the most successful expansion from a quality perspective? Is it simply the fact that we didn't hit a major content drought that caused players to turn on the xpac?

Just an interesting observation


it was bigger flop than wod gating killed it

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