GCD

General Discussion
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I am not a fan of so many abilities being put back on the gcd even with the massive amount of haste we have now at 110 it still feels slower.

I'm really nervous about how bad the classes will feel once we hit 120 an go back to having much lower stats esp with most gear at 120 giving much less secondary stats
I don't think anyone is a fan of the current change to GCD.

Makes most - if not all - classes feel slow, clunky and boring.
It'll be alright. It's just an adjustment is all.

A little time and everything will feel natural again like it did before the changes.
They're not much in the habit of holistically reversing changes of this nature.

Talk about which abilities you miss being on the GCD and why. They listened to some of the feedback they got from beta. Not a ton of it, but some of it.

I'm kind of the same mind with the idea that this makes things feel slow and clunky in more than one instance. The whole idea of a GCD where you're triggering an ability that won't do anything until the next GCD is really dull.
You won't notice it at all after a few play sessions. Only like 2 to 3 ablities were added, where as the remainder of the abilities you pressed were already on the gcd.
Death knight got it pretty bad though with death grip being on it, but it's a shorter gcd so that's nice at least.

No one is going to be in love with that but it certainly makes decision making require a lot more thought.

Can't just instantly interupt with death grip any more etc.

It's probably what's best for the game, and you get used to it really quick.
07/23/2018 03:31 PMPosted by Crepe
They're not much in the habit of holistically reversing changes of this nature.

Talk about which abilities you miss being on the GCD and why. They listened to some of the feedback they got from beta. Not a ton of it, but some of it.

I'm kind of the same mind with the idea that this makes things feel slow and clunky in more than one instance. The whole idea of a GCD where you're triggering an ability that won't do anything until the next GCD is really dull.

Agreed Crepe (3d graph). Part of the problem is, if you have 2 abilities on the GCD that furnish 12 sec buffs but it takes 5 sec to cast them . . . well you don't need to be Einstein to see how that works.

Also offensive and defensive abilities should not be on the same GCD.

Finally, all mobs also should be on the GCD (see FF14). This evens the playing field and makes GCD more transparent and easy to acclimate. My $.02
07/23/2018 03:50 PMPosted by Velara
Agreed Crepe (3d graph). Part of the problem is, if you have 2 abilities on the GCD that furnish 12 sec buffs but it takes 5 sec to cast them . . . well you don't need to be Einstein to see how that works.

This is what Crepe means when he points out its good to be specific on what doesn't feel good. If you're naming specific things we can take a closer look and figure out if we want that interaction.

In the Beta we saw this change had the strange effect on Warriors where they still needed to stack all of the Cooldowns but essentially lost several seconds hitting them all. We were able to adjust the abilities and duration to account for this so that you can still play it that way, but you were no longer sitting there spending the first 10 seconds of a fight hitting all of your cooldowns and then hitting an actual damage ability. Everyone agrees that isn't fun. Warriors gave us detailed feedback(some in the form of a meme) about that window that allowed us to rethink it and change it to fit within the GCD changes.

Class Design is something that is never truly finished and it is a constant iterative process, and just because it's in the game now doesn't mean the potential for change is gone. If you're talking about it, we see it. Just be detailed with the spec and the abilities that has those interactions that you think don't feel good.
07/23/2018 04:59 PMPosted by Ythisens
This is what Crepe means when he points out its good to be specific on what doesn't feel good.

Arcane Torrent still being on the GCD, alone among racials?
07/23/2018 03:27 PMPosted by Synneth
I don't think anyone is a fan of the current change to GCD.

Makes most - if not all - classes feel slow, clunky and boring.
this must be what i am noticing then while casting spells. I am so used to the flow we used to have now, I'm pressing a key and no cast is being made, since all spells are on same cd, even the instant cast ones
Soothing Mist being on the GCD feels terrible. It puts you in the position of either not wanting to use it, or making it so you don't want to switch targets once you start it. Having to burn through 3-4 GCDs to get another target set up for healing feels pretty bad.
07/23/2018 04:59 PMPosted by Ythisens
07/23/2018 03:50 PMPosted by Velara
Agreed Crepe (3d graph). Part of the problem is, if you have 2 abilities on the GCD that furnish 12 sec buffs but it takes 5 sec to cast them . . . well you don't need to be Einstein to see how that works.

This is what Crepe means when he points out its good to be specific on what doesn't feel good. If you're naming specific things we can take a closer look and figure out if we want that interaction.

In the Beta we saw this change had the strange effect on Warriors where they still needed to stack all of the Cooldowns but essentially lost several seconds hitting them all. We were able to adjust the abilities and duration to account for this so that you can still play it that way, but you were no longer sitting there spending the first 10 seconds of a fight hitting all of your cooldowns and then hitting an actual damage ability. Everyone agrees that isn't fun. Warriors gave us detailed feedback(some in the form of a meme) about that window that allowed us to rethink it and change it to fit within the GCD changes.

Class Design is something that is never truly finished and it is a constant iterative process, and just because it's in the game now doesn't mean the potential for change is gone. If you're talking about it, we see it. Just be detailed with the spec and the abilities that has those interactions that you think don't feel good.


Then why does it seem like the GCD and tanks has fallen on deaf ears? Tanks feel horrible and its said over and over. Taking away the ability to make split second decisions with good use of cds makes for boring and sluggish game play. Instead of tanks being able to save a dps or a wipe with use of abilites now people willl just die because of GCD? Even worse is with the stat squish and the threat nerf now we have to decide to aoe and hold agro or get our active mitigation up. The GCD change effects every tanks in a different way but none in a positive way. The change is not good for the health of tanks and especially mythic plus where split second decisions can make or break a run!
07/23/2018 05:02 PMPosted by Dliver
07/23/2018 04:59 PMPosted by Ythisens
This is what Crepe means when he points out its good to be specific on what doesn't feel good.

Arcane Torrent still being on the GCD, alone among racials?

Would it be possible to change Arcane Torrent to only have a global in PVP?

The benefits outside of PVP is rather small since it's uncommon to have to AOE purge a lot of mobs so it's mostly used for it's small resource gain.

However in PVP, you have problems where a Paladin could BoP a target only to have to purged immediately without a thought.
5 min ago

07/23/2018 03:50 PMPosted by Velara
Agreed Crepe (3d graph). Part of the problem is, if you have 2 abilities on the GCD that furnish 12 sec buffs but it takes 5 sec to cast them . . . well you don't need to be Einstein to see how that works.

This is what Crepe means when he points out its good to be specific on what doesn't feel good. If you're naming specific things we can take a closer look and figure out if we want that interaction.

In the Beta we saw this change had the strange effect on Warriors where they still needed to stack all of the Cooldowns but essentially lost several seconds hitting them all. We were able to adjust the abilities and duration to account for this so that you can still play it that way, but you were no longer sitting there spending the first 10 seconds of a fight hitting all of your cooldowns and then hitting an actual damage ability. Everyone agrees that isn't fun. Warriors gave us detailed feedback(some in the form of a meme) about that window that allowed us to rethink it and change it to fit within the GCD changes.

Class Design is something that is never truly finished and it is a constant iterative process, and just because it's in the game now doesn't mean the potential for change is gone. If you're talki


I do not post much on the forums but as a player, it sucks reading that last part all the time, especially when we have to wait for 8.1 or 8.2 or the end of the expac for the class to be 'right' just before changing it all up for alpha/beta.

The gcd also feels bad on a holy paladin, pressing avenging crusader + holy avenger loses its fun when you essentially lose out on a few seconds of either cooldown due to press button -> gcd -> press next cd -> gcd or if you're trying to use aura mastery and missing out on the cd because you're on the gcd.

Having defensives on the gcd as a tank isn't good also, but I shouldn't have to write a thesis as to why this change was/is bad overall for the game, especially when others have had megathreads for months during alpha/beta with detailed, comprehensive feedback only for it to get ignored until a future patch.

none of these things are what players want, you mention memes but the biggest meme so far has been class design/azerite traits, meaningful choices is the new #savage or #class fantasy meme.
07/23/2018 04:59 PMPosted by Ythisens
07/23/2018 03:50 PMPosted by Velara
Agreed Crepe (3d graph). Part of the problem is, if you have 2 abilities on the GCD that furnish 12 sec buffs but it takes 5 sec to cast them . . . well you don't need to be Einstein to see how that works.

This is what Crepe means when he points out its good to be specific on what doesn't feel good. If you're naming specific things we can take a closer look and figure out if we want that interaction.

In the Beta we saw this change had the strange effect on Warriors where they still needed to stack all of the Cooldowns but essentially lost several seconds hitting them all. We were able to adjust the abilities and duration to account for this so that you can still play it that way, but you were no longer sitting there spending the first 10 seconds of a fight hitting all of your cooldowns and then hitting an actual damage ability. Everyone agrees that isn't fun. Warriors gave us detailed feedback(some in the form of a meme) about that window that allowed us to rethink it and change it to fit within the GCD changes.

Class Design is something that is never truly finished and it is a constant iterative process, and just because it's in the game now doesn't mean the potential for change is gone. If you're talking about it, we see it. Just be detailed with the spec and the abilities that has those interactions that you think don't feel good.


Hmm, need i say anything about you putting Soothing mist on the GCD? I feel blizzard has gone crazy about adding things to the GCD.
07/23/2018 04:59 PMPosted by Ythisens
07/23/2018 03:50 PMPosted by Velara
Agreed Crepe (3d graph). Part of the problem is, if you have 2 abilities on the GCD that furnish 12 sec buffs but it takes 5 sec to cast them . . . well you don't need to be Einstein to see how that works.

This is what Crepe means when he points out its good to be specific on what doesn't feel good. If you're naming specific things we can take a closer look and figure out if we want that interaction.

In the Beta we saw this change had the strange effect on Warriors where they still needed to stack all of the Cooldowns but essentially lost several seconds hitting them all. We were able to adjust the abilities and duration to account for this so that you can still play it that way, but you were no longer sitting there spending the first 10 seconds of a fight hitting all of your cooldowns and then hitting an actual damage ability. Everyone agrees that isn't fun. Warriors gave us detailed feedback(some in the form of a meme) about that window that allowed us to rethink it and change it to fit within the GCD changes.

Class Design is something that is never truly finished and it is a constant iterative process, and just because it's in the game now doesn't mean the potential for change is gone. If you're talking about it, we see it. Just be detailed with the spec and the abilities that has those interactions that you think don't feel good.


Maybe you guys should have listened to Prot Warrior feedback too. Ignore Pain being on the GCD is brutal.
07/23/2018 05:12 PMPosted by Galdraena
none of these things are what players want

They've basically said they don't care about what players want re: these changes. At a certain point that isn't going to be a winning business strategy.
07/23/2018 04:59 PMPosted by Ythisens
Just be detailed with the spec and the abilities that has those interactions that you think don't feel good.


Sweeping Strikes and Ignore Pain both feel awful on GCD.

Arcane Torrent also feels off.
07/23/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Aeolys
Maybe you guys should have listened to Prot Warrior feedback too. Ignore Pain being on the GCD is brutal.


They haven't listened to our feedback. About anything.

The biggest post we had was "Hey, when your AM is up, you only take slightly more physical damage than an AFK Guardian Druid!"
I constantly get two shreds past when I was supposed to hit my berserk because i'm still hitting keys as quickly as i'm accustomed to. Then I glance at berserk and it's not on cooldown, which means I missed it during my repetitive mashes of it because of the GCD/me not waiting quite long enough. Then i'm basically out of energy, i've usually wasted bloodtalons, and i'm so far down on dps that I can't recover over the course of the fight.

I understand there will be a learning curve. Learning curves I can stand. Ultra-Slow-Feral, Meticulously-Pressing-Every-Button-One-By-One is a pattern we have been out of for a LONG. TIME. I wanted complex specs back (Savage roar, blood talons, even lunar inspiration are all fine) but waiting almost twenty seconds to get the ideal combination of buffs off for my first powerhouse bleed just feels so abysmal.

Edit: I guess I should say, specifically when other classes still have much shorter ramp times. Again, I know feral is a ramp up class, been playing it for years, but for me, berserk keeps getting in my way now. Maybe it'll get better with time. Still don't like it.
Ythisens, it is valid feedback to say that every single GCD change was a bad one. Certain spells feel worse than others - they all feel bad.

Various official posts have acknowledged how bad certain categories of spells feel to be on the GCD such as Defensive abilities and yet several remain. Ignore Pain, Shield of Vengenace, Healing for Prot Paladins.

WW -
Arcane Torrent and Energizing Elixir feel bad. They're low impact spells that ruin the flow.
Xuen and SEF are at least high impact.

Rogues -
Crimson Vial - This spell already has a negative cost to DPS ( energy ). Why double punish DPS or actually not heal yourself when you thought you pressed it your defensive spell?

Vendetta - Just feels worse to play. It is at least a high CD spell to mitigate it.

Blade Fury + Killing Spree/Blade Rush - This combo is clearly designed to be used together. However, you must always remember to delay. Blade Fury + Symbols of Death are very similar in their use. Imagine Symbols being on the GCD?

Priests -
Vampiric Embrace - Low raid utility at the cost of insanity generation and dropping void form sooner? Sorry raid.

Arcane Torrent - 15 insanity ( while dropping 15 insanity? ). Totally worthless now.

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