Assassination is broken

Arenas
I have ZERO idea why marked for death isn't on the GCD.

It needs to be on the GCD, and only give 3 combo points in PvP.
07/22/2018 07:57 PMPosted by Shiyolangley
I have ZERO idea why marked for death isn't on the GCD.

It needs to be on the GCD, and only give 3 combo points in PvP.


I don't really think MfD is an issue or the issue with mut rogues right now. Honestly envenom just seems to hit way too hard, toning that down seems the most important.
07/22/2018 08:02 PMPosted by Dillon
07/22/2018 07:57 PMPosted by Shiyolangley
I have ZERO idea why marked for death isn't on the GCD.

It needs to be on the GCD, and only give 3 combo points in PvP.


I don't really think MfD is an issue or the issue with mut rogues right now. Honestly envenom just seems to hit way too hard, toning that down seems the most important.

Even if envenom was nerfed they'd still have far too much burst, and MFD not being on GCD goes against the entire design of the expacs GCD changes. System shock also needs to have an ICD.

Also trying to balance a spec around MFD existence is really bad, and might screw up the spec pretty hard. MUCH easier to just nerf/remove MFD by making it 3 cps(pvp only) and on GCD.
07/22/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Gunti
I disagree. The rogues with the best gear might be killing you within 15 seconds but you can’t nerf rogues because of the top tier players. I have yet to kill anyone within the time frame of a kidney shot, but yes I have been killed within 8 seconds by an Outlaw rogue.
Like a previous poster said, sorry you can’t press one button and be immortal to rogues anymore.


So you're saying blizzard shouldn't balance around the people that can play the spec optimally, but balance around people that have no clue what they're doing in boosted greens? :thinking: All three rogue specs are extremely overtuned in pvp. Just because YOU haven't killed someone in a kidney doesn't mean no one has.

There have been many games where I killed someone in an opener with smokebomb, and the enemy team didn't even play it terribly. Sometimes they play in the smokebomb, sometimes they trinket the things they need, but it is totally possible to kill someone in the kidney window by yourself if you set it up correctly; in all 3 specs. It's even easier as sub. go 1232311 with CB and PA... very easy to kill someone in the opener without setting up swaps, getting cds used etc.

I think assassination just needs an overall down tuning, and the other 2 specs need the damage smoothed out a little, but we're also all basing our arguments without knowing when the tuning is coming or what it will be targeting, because there's a lot that needs to be done. Lets not overlook how an entire BG team can be on a disc priest while hes LOLing at them, or a hunter one-shotting you from camo...

It's pre-patch, there's a reason why this stuff comes before the actual expansion.
07/22/2018 08:42 PMPosted by Berrysneakie
07/22/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Gunti
I disagree. The rogues with the best gear might be killing you within 15 seconds but you can’t nerf rogues because of the top tier players. I have yet to kill anyone within the time frame of a kidney shot, but yes I have been killed within 8 seconds by an Outlaw rogue.
Like a previous poster said, sorry you can’t press one button and be immortal to rogues anymore.


So you're saying blizzard shouldn't balance around the people that can play the spec optimally, but balance around people that have no clue what they're doing in boosted greens? :thinking: All three rogue specs are extremely overtuned in pvp. Just because YOU haven't killed someone in a kidney doesn't mean no one has.

There have been many games where I killed someone in an opener with smokebomb, and the enemy team didn't even play it terribly. Sometimes they play in the smokebomb, sometimes they trinket the things they need, but it is totally possible to kill someone in the kidney window by yourself if you set it up correctly; in all 3 specs. It's even easier as sub. go 1232311 with CB and PA... very easy to kill someone in the opener without setting up swaps, getting cds used etc.

I think assassination just needs an overall down tuning, and the other 2 specs need the damage smoothed out a little, but we're also all basing our arguments without knowing when the tuning is coming or what it will be targeting, because there's a lot that needs to be done. Lets not overlook how an entire BG team can be on a disc priest while hes LOLing at them, or a hunter one-shotting you from camo...

It's pre-patch, there's a reason why this stuff comes before the actual expansion.


I like you... wish more people could be this in bias
Pre-patch is always goofy but my bigger concern was that at level cap on beta right before BFA pre-patch went live you had envenom hitting for like 60ks+ as well which was a good half of someone's HP in a global with no cast time, no ability to interrupt, etc. Also sin rogues on beta were regularly doubling other peoples DPS while having a really solid overall kit as well. Spec likely does need nerfs as a result.
Lol MFD on the gcd and only give 3 combo points.

Just delete it at that point, no one would take it ever
07/22/2018 07:17 PMPosted by Dillon
07/22/2018 07:00 PMPosted by Bertimus
Assassination is still very strong at 120.


Yeah it is. Prolly the strongest spec at 120? Seems pretty powerful.


Hard to say. The slower pace in general makes them less good than now and they seem super easy to kill as bm. They do still have wicked burst though. A lot of stuff is good on beta that isn’t good on pre patch. For example Warlock seems super good at 120. Affliction and destro both.
Yeah I’m playing disc sin 2s at 2200 rn and a good 65% - 80% of the games are mirror matches
07/22/2018 09:29 PMPosted by Bertimus
The slower pace in general makes them less good than now and they seem super easy to kill as bm.


Slower pace is actually where Assassination is king, as far as the three rogue specs go. It has the best design to handle downtime, usually the go-to raid spec for first tier. Given that you aren't tunneling a player like a dungeon or raid boss the spec can have wicked burst and good sustained because of the difference in combat temo between pvp/pve. Also most of the damage is back loaded into dots/buffs.

They are easy to kill though, all defensives are on global from what I could tell playing mine, and you really notice the 15s cd on Elusiveness talented Feint.

07/22/2018 08:42 PMPosted by Berrysneakie
but we're also all basing our arguments without knowing when the tuning is coming or what it will be targeting, because there's a lot that needs to be done. Lets not overlook how an entire BG team can be on a disc priest while hes LOLing at them, or a hunter one-shotting you from camo...


Right, it could be that a few specs get buffed because it isn't just Assassination doing good damage in a few globals. I can make it look like I'm an Unholy god if there are more than one Pally running auto dispel in a bg. I've seen affy locks doing the same thing and they're doing great damage while padding the cc meter with UA.
I’m bad at pvp but i am stomping every 2s skirm as my sin rog. Got tired of getting trained as boomy so i jumped on my rogue. We do so much damage now haha. Only double dps comps we lose to now are rets.
07/22/2018 05:02 PMPosted by Ezzkaal
Rogues are strong but if you are being killed by a rogue in one kidney you are doing something wrong.

I have never broken 1750 on a healer till yesterday (saying this to enforce the fact that i suck at pvp)

And i have no problem with a single kidney.

Now double rogue / rogue pally / rogue warrior i can die in a few stuns if i don’t get peels or help from a team m8 but yeah

In the end we all know sin is OP i have not played beta but apparently it’s the same there so only time will tell what’s going to happen.


This is because in the 1750mmr range the only rogues youre going against are the worst of the worst. Any decent rogue can easily climb to 2k+ in the current meta. You literally are probably going against keyboard turners and clickers—this is not an exaggeration.

I would love to watch and laugh at your candy !@# 2200mmr+ against the rogues who have a decent concept of what they should be doing. You would die so fast your character would get deleted from your wow account.
I mean, I carried a assass rogue to his first 2k who thought you could dispel Hex, so yeah
This isn't even a debate. 50k envenom that can be mfd'd to another one right after is not ok.

07/23/2018 05:32 AMPosted by Lythraen
I mean, I carried a assass rogue to his first 2k who thought you could dispel Hex, so yeah


Some classes can dispel hex though... it's a curse. Druid and Shammy can dispel curses and I think so can mages now.
07/23/2018 05:32 AMPosted by Lythraen
I mean, I carried a assass rogue to his first 2k who thought you could dispel Hex, so yeah


Jokes on you. It seems you were the one who was carried as hex certainly can be decursed by a few classes.
07/23/2018 04:24 AMPosted by Liónheart
07/22/2018 05:02 PMPosted by Ezzkaal
Rogues are strong but if you are being killed by a rogue in one kidney you are doing something wrong.

I have never broken 1750 on a healer till yesterday (saying this to enforce the fact that i suck at pvp)

And i have no problem with a single kidney.

Now double rogue / rogue pally / rogue warrior i can die in a few stuns if i don’t get peels or help from a team m8 but yeah

In the end we all know sin is OP i have not played beta but apparently it’s the same there so only time will tell what’s going to happen.


This is because in the 1750mmr range the only rogues youre going against are the worst of the worst. Any decent rogue can easily climb to 2k+ in the current meta. You literally are probably going against keyboard turners and clickers—this is not an exaggeration.

I would love to watch and laugh at your candy !@# 2200mmr+ against the rogues who have a decent concept of what they should be doing. You would die so fast your character would get deleted from your wow account.


Is there a reason for aggressiveness while trying to have a productive conversation?

I don’t and will not defend the brackets i play in i don’t swap between arena binds and pve binds to heal and focus on raid healing and randomly do arena for fun. I never claimed to be in a high bracket and we don’t know what bracket he is healing in wth his Druid. But i also guarantee (and have done so against friends) that even a 2400 rogue is not going to Kill me on the Druid in a kidney.

I am more then happy to duel you if you have a rogue. I never said they were not strong i agree they are and are tuned pretty high right now.

Does not change the fact that we have plenty in our tool kit to survive a single rogues kidney.

I’m sorry if my posts bothers you but even causal pvp players should be able to post with out ridicule.
07/22/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Dillon
07/22/2018 07:29 PMPosted by Gunti
I disagree. The rogues with the best gear might be killing you within 15 seconds but you can’t nerf rogues because of the top tier players. I have yet to kill anyone within the timeframe of a kidney shot, but yes I have been killed within 8 seconds by an Outlaw rogue.
Like a previous poster said, sorry you can’t press one button and be immortal to rogues anymore.


Uhh when have people just pressed 1 button to be immortal to rogues?

I think a lot of top tier players on Beta though including rogue players that Mut is extremely powerful right now. Tbh I've had a harder time judging it because SV hunters do fairly well against them over any spec, but seeing PoV of other players vs the spec or just assassination rogues playing it at 120 it doesn't really look to be a l2p issue.

Envenoms look like they hit super hard, there was a whaazz clip going around of him killing with a dfa envenom>mfd envenom in a cheap shot if anyone has a link to it.


I'm seriously confused as to how people are getting these global tier envenoms
07/23/2018 05:32 AMPosted by Lythraen
I carried a assass rogue to his first 2k who thought you could dispel Hex, so yeah


zz druid/sham can dispel curses regardless of spec

07/23/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Johancarlena
I'm seriously confused as to how people are getting these global tier envenoms


elaborate planning
nightstalker
deeper stratagem
prey on the weak
toxic blade
death from above

some mixture of these
probably
Hey guys, just wanted to check in with an unbiased fact, but sin is working as intended.

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