Sunwell's power is Blood Elf power.

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07/20/2018 03:42 AMPosted by Juno
considering the council has traditionally held some of the most powerful mages in it's ranks, it's safe to say that they are exceptional.


Except when Aethas was on it since he was just there as a token Horde member.
07/20/2018 03:25 AMPosted by Rivendel
...
the council of six has more notable human mages than in the entire blood elven populace
is that so? What has the council of six ever done other than ask the player character (who could be a blood elf) for help? Once again, take away Jaina or Khadgar, unique situations that no other human can have, and they are pitiful.


Pitiful and still considered to be among the most powerful mages on Azeroth, which is why they are who they are.

It doesn't matter if a character is 'all powerful' if they aren't written to use their power. Malfurion is a perfect example of this, hes supposed to be one of the most powerful beings on Azeroth and they keep writing him into weak roles.

In the end it doesn't matter how powerful a race is, should be, has been. We do not see it reflected in game, and likely will not, because the writers cant seem to write for any of the 'side races'.
Another amazing thread. I don't know how you manage to do it, Riv ol' buddy.

Belves are pretty cool.
...is that so? What has the council of six ever done other than ask the player character (who could be a blood elf) for help? Once again, take away Jaina or Khadgar, unique situations that no other human can have, and they are pitiful.


Pitiful and still considered to be among the most powerful mages on Azeroth, which is why they are who they are.

It doesn't matter if a character is 'all powerful' if they aren't written to use their power. Malfurion is a perfect example of this, hes supposed to be one of the most powerful beings on Azeroth and they keep writing him into weak roles.

In the end it doesn't matter how powerful a race is, should be, has been. We do not see it reflected in game, and likely will not, because the writers cant seem to write for any of the 'side races'.
Where exactly are humans portrayed as the "most powerful mages on azeroth"? Most human mages we see in game that are killable are low lvl. Most Blood Elf mages we see in game that are killable are higher lvl. If you dont want to go by game mechanics, then when has any human mage other than Khadgar or Jaina ever do anything impressive? Rommath invented a new, never before seen kind of magic golem, Blood Golems, which are pretty powerful. Kael'thas captured a gigantic naaru vessel. Quel'thalas it self is full of magical wonders that everyone can enjoy, most human mages outside of Dalaran still live in wooden shacks slinging mundane spells.
It's been hard canon from Chronicle I that humans have a natural affinity for the arcane because of their ancestry. Even the ancient night elves, which had access to something much better than an offbrand Well of Eternity, were amazed by Rhonin.
07/20/2018 03:59 AMPosted by Teilvia
It's been hard canon from Chronicle I that humans have a natural affinity for the arcane because of their ancestry. Even the ancient night elves, which had access to something much better than an offbrand Well of Eternity, were amazed by Rhonin.
Chronicle II also says Ogres also have an affinity for the arcane due to their ancestry which dates back to the Titan(s). But no one here is going to call the ogres masters of the arcane with a straight face.
07/20/2018 03:55 AMPosted by Rivendel
Quel'thalas it self is full of magical wonders that everyone can enjoy, most human mages outside of Dalaran still live in wooden shacks slinging mundane spells.


So...compare the Nation of Quel'thalas to the Tower of Azora?
07/20/2018 04:01 AMPosted by Rivendel
07/20/2018 03:59 AMPosted by Teilvia
It's been hard canon from Chronicle I that humans have a natural affinity for the arcane because of their ancestry. Even the ancient night elves, which had access to something much better than an offbrand Well of Eternity, were amazed by Rhonin.
Chronicle II also says Ogres also have an affinity for the arcane due to their ancestry which dates back to the Titan(s). But no one here is going to call the ogres masters of the arcane with a straight face.
Are we just ignoring the entire Gorian Empire? Draenor also didn't have a World-Soul.
07/20/2018 04:02 AMPosted by Daiza
07/20/2018 03:55 AMPosted by Rivendel
Quel'thalas it self is full of magical wonders that everyone can enjoy, most human mages outside of Dalaran still live in wooden shacks slinging mundane spells.


So...compare the Nation of Quel'thalas to the Tower of Azora?
Dont get me wrong, its a cute little cozy tower, but it looks primitive compared to the architecture of even the smallest blood elf towns.
07/20/2018 03:48 AMPosted by Mylinea
In the end it doesn't matter how powerful a race is, should be, has been. We do not see it reflected in game, and likely will not, because the writers cant seem to write for any of the 'side races'.


Also, the premise is a bit off.

Azshara was a powerful mage but she also had access to many powerful relics to enhance her power, as well as the Well of Eternity and now Old God infusion.

Elisande tapped into the Nightwell to create a shield for her people, and to fight the 20 or so champions.

Jaina was always powerful but she is even more so with the Thunder Kings powers.

The Blood Elves having the Sunwell is not a trump card. Especially since it can be taken away at any moment. Organized forces have aimed to take or destroy it, some have succeeded, and many still desire it.

When the High Elves channeled the Sunwell's energies against the Trolls, the Trolls had little Arcane knowledge to fight back with.

If Jaina and an army of Human mages get close to the Sunwell, who is to say they could not also tap into the lambent magical energy?

I remain unconvinced.
07/20/2018 04:04 AMPosted by Teilvia
07/20/2018 04:01 AMPosted by Rivendel
...Chronicle II also says Ogres also have an affinity for the arcane due to their ancestry which dates back to the Titan(s). But no one here is going to call the ogres masters of the arcane with a straight face.
Are we just ignoring the entire Gorian Empire? Draenor also didn't have a World-Soul.
The Gorian Empire was impressive by Draenor standards in magic, since there is hardly no other arcane users in Draenor. It was primitive in the extreme compared to Azerothian magic users. The only reason humans aren't as primitive in their magic as ogres is because the Elves shared a portion of their fineness and knowledge with humans. But that's just it, they shared a "portion" not all of their knowledge with humans.
07/20/2018 03:55 AMPosted by Rivendel
...

Pitiful and still considered to be among the most powerful mages on Azeroth, which is why they are who they are.

It doesn't matter if a character is 'all powerful' if they aren't written to use their power. Malfurion is a perfect example of this, hes supposed to be one of the most powerful beings on Azeroth and they keep writing him into weak roles.

In the end it doesn't matter how powerful a race is, should be, has been. We do not see it reflected in game, and likely will not, because the writers cant seem to write for any of the 'side races'.
Where exactly are humans portrayed as the "most powerful mages on azeroth"? Most human mages we see in game that are killable are low lvl. Most Blood Elf mages we see in game that are killable are higher lvl. If you dont want to go by game mechanics, then when has any human mage other than Khadgar or Jaina ever do anything impressive? Rommath invented a new, never before seen kind of magic golem, Blood Golems, which are pretty powerful. Kael'thas captured a gigantic naaru vessel. Quel'thalas it self is full of magical wonders that everyone can enjoy, most human mages outside of Dalaran still live in wooden shacks slinging mundane spells.


Dalaran is an entire city state dedicated to magic, a human city-state. It by itself was the center of the magical world for a long time to the point High Elves went to Dalaran and the Kirin Tor to study not the other way around.

Blizzard has been writing humans as "the best of all skills" for a long time now. And for the record as far as ogres go.. ogre mages were -the- mage unit of the horde for the bulk of the RTS's lifetime.
07/20/2018 04:06 AMPosted by Cursewords
07/20/2018 03:48 AMPosted by Mylinea
In the end it doesn't matter how powerful a race is, should be, has been. We do not see it reflected in game, and likely will not, because the writers cant seem to write for any of the 'side races'.


Also, the premise is a bit off.

Azshara was a powerful mage but she also had access to many powerful relics to enhance her power, as well as the Well of Eternity and now Old God infusion.

Elisande tapped into the Nightwell to create a shield for her people, and to fight the 20 or so champions.

Jaina was always powerful but she is even more so with the Thunder Kings powers.

The Blood Elves having the Sunwell is not a trump card. Especially since it can be taken away at any moment. Organized forces have aimed to take or destroy it, some have succeeded, and many still desire it.

When the High Elves channeled the Sunwell's energies against the Trolls, the Trolls had little Arcane knowledge to fight back with.

If Jaina and an army of Human mages get close to the Sunwell, who is to say they could not also tap into the lambent magical energy?

I remain unconvinced.
The Sunwell is specifically designed to be usable only by Blood Elves/High Elves. The Last person who tried to steal the Sunwells power, Dar'Khan, notably a High Elf him self, was obliterated for it by the wells power.
...Where exactly are humans portrayed as the "most powerful mages on azeroth"? Most human mages we see in game that are killable are low lvl. Most Blood Elf mages we see in game that are killable are higher lvl. If you dont want to go by game mechanics, then when has any human mage other than Khadgar or Jaina ever do anything impressive? Rommath invented a new, never before seen kind of magic golem, Blood Golems, which are pretty powerful. Kael'thas captured a gigantic naaru vessel. Quel'thalas it self is full of magical wonders that everyone can enjoy, most human mages outside of Dalaran still live in wooden shacks slinging mundane spells.


Dalaran is an entire city state dedicated to magic, a human city-state. It by itself was the center of the magical world for a long time to the point High Elves went to Dalaran and the Kirin Tor to study not the other way around.

Blizzard has been writing humans as "the best of all skills" for a long time now. And for the record as far as ogres go.. ogre mages were -the- mage unit of the horde for the bulk of the RTS's lifetime.
Humans didn't go to Silvermoon to train, specifically because they were not allowed to do so. Even Nanthos going to Quel'Thalas just to learn Elven Ranger stuff took extreme string pulling by Sylvanas as ranger general to make happen. Also, Dalaran has always had a Thalassian minority, which can also take credit for the city and its wonders.
Blood Elves have acuity and affinity for Arcane (their passive racials) while Humans have natural predilection for Arcane. It was also said somewhere Blood Elves have more mastery and control over Arcane while Humans have more raw power but lacked control.

I would be just happy that Blood Elves could rival Kirin Tor during Throne of Thunder patch if i were you.
07/20/2018 04:23 AMPosted by Arigly
Blood Elves have acuity and affinity for Arcane (their passive racials) while Humans have natural predilection for Arcane. It was also said somewhere Blood Elves have more mastery and control over Arcane while Humans have more raw power but lacked control.

I would be just happy that Blood Elves could rival Kirin Tor during Throne of Thunder patch if i were you.
I think not, especially since this so called "predilection" only happens for main human characters. The average human mage is like those guys living in a wooden shack out in Dustwallow marsh, slinging crude spells and using swamp animal parts for regents.
07/20/2018 04:12 AMPosted by Rivendel
The Sunwell is specifically designed to be usable only by Blood Elves/High Elves. The Last person who tried to steal the Sunwells power, Dar'Khan, notably a High Elf him self, was obliterated for it by the wells power.


Are you referring to the Sunwell being in the form of Anveena and destroying Dar'Khan? Because that was the Sunwell incarnate - It is no longer the case. It does not direct a will any more. Kalecgos mourns the passing of Anveena.

And I believe he was Undead when Anveena did this. Not a pure High Elf.

Arthas used the Sunwell just fine when he needed it to resurrect Kelthuzad.

Kil'Jaeden and the Legion were able to use it's power just fine after we behead Kaelthas.

And the Void needed to be fought off from claiming the Sunwell by almost every named High Elf progeny. I think the Void could also use the well just fine if they defeated the Elves and claimed the Sunwell.

I am not sure how you claim only Elves can use it.
07/20/2018 04:34 AMPosted by Cursewords
07/20/2018 04:12 AMPosted by Rivendel
The Sunwell is specifically designed to be usable only by Blood Elves/High Elves. The Last person who tried to steal the Sunwells power, Dar'Khan, notably a High Elf him self, was obliterated for it by the wells power.


Are you referring to the Sunwell being in the form of Anveena and destroying Dar'Khan? Because that was the Sunwell incarnate - It is no longer the case. It does not direct a will any more. Kalecgos mourns the passing of Anveena.

And I believe he was Undead when Anveena did this. Not a pure High Elf.

Arthas used the Sunwell just fine when he needed it to resurrect Kelthuzad.

Kil'Jaeden and the Legion were able to use it's power just fine after we behead Kaelthas.

And the Void needed to be fought off from claiming the Sunwell by almost every named High Elf progeny. I think the Void could also use the well just fine if they defeated the Elves and claimed the Sunwell.

I am not sure how you claim only Elves can use it.
The Sunwell was for the most part inactive, when it was used as a portal for Kil'jaeden. Even then it also took incredible amounts of power, Kil'jaeden had to use the Scepter of Sargeras to make it work, Kael'thas had to initiate the process. The Void can corrupt the Sunwell only because there is a heart of a Naaru in it, Naaru can fall to void. Arthas didn't tap into the Sunwells power, he threw in Kel'Thuzads remains and it being infused with power reanimated him as a lich. Kel'Thuzad never at one point had any access to the Sunwells power. So far, only Blood Elves and High Elves have ever been shown actually tapping into its power.
07/20/2018 04:43 AMPosted by Rivendel
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Are you referring to the Sunwell being in the form of Anveena and destroying Dar'Khan? Because that was the Sunwell incarnate - It is no longer the case. It does not direct a will any more. Kalecgos mourns the passing of Anveena.

And I believe he was Undead when Anveena did this. Not a pure High Elf.

Arthas used the Sunwell just fine when he needed it to resurrect Kelthuzad.

Kil'Jaeden and the Legion were able to use it's power just fine after we behead Kaelthas.

And the Void needed to be fought off from claiming the Sunwell by almost every named High Elf progeny. I think the Void could also use the well just fine if they defeated the Elves and claimed the Sunwell.

I am not sure how you claim only Elves can use it.
The Sunwell was for the most part inactive, when it was used as a portal for Kil'jaeden. Even then it also took incredible amounts of power, Kil'jaeden had to use the Scepter of Sargeras to make it work, Kael'thas had to initiate the process. The Void can corrupt the Sunwell only because there is a heart of a Naaru in it, Naaru can fall to void. Arthas didn't tap into the Sunwells power, he threw in Kel'Thuzads remains and it being infused with power reanimated him as a lich. Kel'Thuzad never at one point had any access to the Sunwells power. So far, only Blood Elves and High Elves have ever been shown actually tapping into its power.


So your argument is that every other power in the universe can harness the Sunwell's power for their purposes - though not directly draw from it? While Elves must draw from it?

I do not buy that at all, seems like a reimagination to me - but even if that is the case - the fact that it can be taken away and redirected and totally cut off from the Elves is hardly an argument for the magical strength of Blood Elves.

Even if it can only be "tapped into" by Elves.

I do not know if your argument about the Void is grounded in anything.

The Void appeared because of Alleria's proximity to the Sunwell. I dont recall any mention of the Void "only being able to corrupt it because of a Naaru heart." Last I heard, the Void consumes ALL.

The Void appeared at the Sunwell because of Alleria's presence. I have not seen it stated anywhere that the only reason the Void has desire for the Sunwell is the fallen Naaru heart.
...The Sunwell was for the most part inactive, when it was used as a portal for Kil'jaeden. Even then it also took incredible amounts of power, Kil'jaeden had to use the Scepter of Sargeras to make it work, Kael'thas had to initiate the process. The Void can corrupt the Sunwell only because there is a heart of a Naaru in it, Naaru can fall to void. Arthas didn't tap into the Sunwells power, he threw in Kel'Thuzads remains and it being infused with power reanimated him as a lich. Kel'Thuzad never at one point had any access to the Sunwells power. So far, only Blood Elves and High Elves have ever been shown actually tapping into its power.


So your argument is that every other power in the universe can harness the Sunwell's power for their purposes - though not directly draw from it? While Elves must draw from it?

I do not buy that at all, seems like a reimagination to me - but even if that is the case - the fact that it can be taken away and redirected and totally cut off from the Elves is hardly an argument for the magical strength of Blood Elves.

Even if it can only be "tapped into" by Elves.

I do not know if your argument about the Void is grounded in anything.

The Void appeared because of Alleria's proximity to the Sunwell. I dont recall any mention of the Void "only being able to corrupt it because of a Naaru heart." Last I heard, the Void consumes ALL.

The Void appeared at the Sunwell because of Alleria's presence. I have not seen it stated anywhere that the only reason the Void has desire for the Sunwell is the fallen Naaru heart.
My Point is, unless your a blood elf, or a nigh omnipotent cosmic force, you cant harness the Sunwells power. Some human mage cant just tap into the Sunwell. And the Sunwell does make Blood Elves quite powerful, as I said earlier, with its power the Elves defeated the Amani empire, one of the most powerful empires in the world.

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