Patch 2.3.0 Dustwallow Marsh quests

Classic Discussion
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... Ah look another fallacy.
Appeal to Possibility
Description: When a conclusion is assumed not because it is probably true or it has not been demonstrated to be impossible, but because it is possible that it is true, no matter how improbable.

Logical Form:

X is possible.
Therefore, X is true.
Example #1:

Brittany: I haven’t applied to any other schools besides Harvard.
Casey: You think that is a good idea? After all, you only have a 2.0 GPA, your SAT scores were pretty bad, and frankly, most people think you are not playing with a full deck.
Brittany: Are you telling me that it is impossible for me to get in?


It still isn't a fallacy.

What came in TBC? Flying.

What else came in TBC? Guild Banks.

What else came into TBC? This quest line.

This alone links them to each other.

Hell I can even link that quest to guildbanks, mounts, companion pets, transmog. If you really want me to.
That is all the slippery slope man. I’m sorry if you can comprehend that. Your playing 7 degrees of Kevin bacon and !@#$. WTH man. Your argument makes no sense because it is illogical.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

It still isn't a fallacy.

What came in TBC? Flying.

What else came in TBC? Guild Banks.

What else came into TBC? This quest line.

This alone links them to each other.

Hell I can even link that quest to guildbanks, mounts, companion pets, transmog. If you really want me to.
That is all the slippery slope man. I’m sorry if you can comprehend that. Your playing 7 degrees of Kevin bacon and !@#$. WTH man. Your argument makes no sense because it is illogical.


I honestly think he is going for the Chewbacca Defense. Soon he's going to use the 'LOOK AT THE MONKEY" tact and your head will explode.
edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clKi92j6eLE
07/25/2018 03:14 PMPosted by Rathir
...

It still isn't a fallacy.

What came in TBC? Flying.

What else came in TBC? Guild Banks.

What else came into TBC? This quest line.

This alone links them to each other.

Hell I can even link that quest to guildbanks, mounts, companion pets, transmog. If you really want me to.
That is all the slippery slope man. I’m sorry if you can comprehend that. Your playing 7 degrees of Kevin bacon and !@#$. WTH man. Your argument makes no sense because it is illogical.


It's quite logical.

I even told you its only a fallacy if it is proven to not have happened. If it is proven to have happened then it isn't. How do you not understand this?
07/25/2018 03:06 PMPosted by Rathir
...

It isn't even a stretch, it's only logical that adding 1 Quest could lead to flying. Especially when both are TBC features/content.
Ah look another fallacy.
Appeal to Possibility
Description: When a conclusion is assumed not because it is probably true or it has not been demonstrated to be impossible, but because it is possible that it is true, no matter how improbable.

Logical Form:

X is possible.
Therefore, X is true.
Example #1:

Brittany: I haven’t applied to any other schools besides Harvard.
Casey: You think that is a good idea? After all, you only have a 2.0 GPA, your SAT scores were pretty bad, and frankly, most people think you are not playing with a full deck.
Brittany: Are you telling me that it is impossible for me to get in?
Casey: No it’s just highly unlikely
Brittany: But it’s possible


So, you're saying there's a chance that Blizzard will add non vanilla content, features and QOL conveniences to classic, despite their stated intent to keep classic as close to vanilla as orcishly possible?

Tell us the truth. Are you really Jim Carrey?
... That is all the slippery slope man. I’m sorry if you can comprehend that. Your playing 7 degrees of Kevin bacon and !@#$. WTH man. Your argument makes no sense because it is illogical.


It's quite logical.

I even told you its only a fallacy if it is proven to not have happened. If it is proven to have happened then it isn't. How do you not understand this?
You don’t see how absurd it is to say that fixing a quest chain in tbc led directly to flying in Azeroth 2 expacs later? So no it didn’t already happen. Show me classic wow with flying and arenas and outlands. You can’t becasue it never happened the game got expansions classic isn’t going to have expansions as far as we know. So therefore your logic is flawed. Also just becaus it’s possible however remotely even if it’s happened before doesn’t make it certain to happen. Thats a whole other fallacy unto itself.
... Ah look another fallacy.
Appeal to Possibility
Description: When a conclusion is assumed not because it is probably true or it has not been demonstrated to be impossible, but because it is possible that it is true, no matter how improbable.

Logical Form:

X is possible.
Therefore, X is true.
Example #1:

Brittany: I haven’t applied to any other schools besides Harvard.
Casey: You think that is a good idea? After all, you only have a 2.0 GPA, your SAT scores were pretty bad, and frankly, most people think you are not playing with a full deck.
Brittany: Are you telling me that it is impossible for me to get in?
Casey: No it’s just highly unlikely
Brittany: But it’s possible


So, you're saying there's a chance that Blizzard will add non vanilla content, features and QOL conveniences to classic, despite their stated intent to keep classic as close to vanilla as orcishly possible?

Tell us the truth. Are you really Jim Carrey?
I’m saying I would like them to. Didn’t say it’s gonna happen did I? Your arguments are just as bad as the other guys. Well it’s remotley possible that this convoluted list of things might possibly happen if we fix a quest chain. Therefor it will happen. That’s a fallacy get your logic straight then come back.
07/25/2018 03:36 PMPosted by Rathir
...

It's quite logical.

I even told you its only a fallacy if it is proven to not have happened. If it is proven to have happened then it isn't. How do you not understand this?
You don’t see how absurd it is to say that fixing a quest chain in tbc led directly to flying in Azeroth 2 expacs later? So no it didn’t already happen. Show me classic wow with flying and arenas and outlands. You can’t becasue it never happened the game got expansions classic isn’t going to have expansions as far as we know. So therefore your logic is flawed. Also just becaus it’s possible however remotely even if it’s happened before doesn’t make it certain to happen. Thats a whole other fallacy unto itself.


Fixing a quest chain doesn't apply here, nothing is broken.

But yes it happened. We got TBC, we got Flying, We also got this quest chain during TBC.

Not really sure why you keep denying that it happened.
Then explain it instead of poking at them on a personal level. If you know so much please share with us your words of wisdom.


I know that a classic server won't be ruined simply because Blizzard added a few quest chains in a barren zone you'll never actually go to... but apparently, enough people think so that we need 18 pages to debate it.

If your vision of Classic is so fragile that something like this is enough to shatter it and make you lose your mind, you don't get what classic was and you never will.
07/25/2018 03:42 PMPosted by Dashel
Then explain it instead of poking at them on a personal level. If you know so much please share with us your words of wisdom.


I know that a classic server won't be ruined simply because Blizzard added a few quest chains in a barren zone you'll never actually go to... but apparently, enough people think so that we need 18 pages to debate it.

If your vision of Classic is so fragile that something like this is enough to shatter it and make you lose your mind, you don't get what classic was and you never will.


Classic is and always will be defined by its patch numbers.

If you throw in content from another expansion it becomes a abomination of what Classic was.
... You don’t see how absurd it is to say that fixing a quest chain in tbc led directly to flying in Azeroth 2 expacs later? So no it didn’t already happen. Show me classic wow with flying and arenas and outlands. You can’t becasue it never happened the game got expansions classic isn’t going to have expansions as far as we know. So therefore your logic is flawed. Also just becaus it’s possible however remotely even if it’s happened before doesn’t make it certain to happen. Thats a whole other fallacy unto itself.


Fixing a quest chain doesn't apply here, nothing is broken.

But yes it happened. We got TBC, we got Flying, We also got this quest chain during TBC.

Not really sure why you keep denying that it happened.
I’m denying that blizzard added flying to vanilla. I’m also denying that the reason flying was put into the game is because the Dustwallow quests were done. Your making a false equivalence. Another fallacy. Keep posting until you use them all!
07/25/2018 03:44 PMPosted by Rathir
...

Fixing a quest chain doesn't apply here, nothing is broken.

But yes it happened. We got TBC, we got Flying, We also got this quest chain during TBC.

Not really sure why you keep denying that it happened.
I’m denying that blizzard added flying to vanilla. I’m also denying that the reason flying was put into the game is because the Dustwallow quests were done. Your making a false equivalence. Another fallacy. Keep posting until you use them all!


Was flying implemented in TBC in Outlands?

If yes, then was Flying implemented in Cata for Azeroth?

If yes, it is still related to flying.

Not really sure how you can keep denying these facts.
07/25/2018 03:44 PMPosted by Syradra
Classic is and always will be defined by its patch numbers.

If you throw in content from another expansion it becomes a abomination of what Classic was.


It's a moot point - Blizzard would never even consider doing it. The fact so many people are losing their minds over it is proof enough that it would be idiotic.

It doesn't change the people who are losing their minds over it are equally idiotic IMHO... but that's fine. I don't really have a horse in this race. IMHO, if they included some things from other expansions (and made damn sure not to include the real things that made modern WoW so different from Classic), I'd be fine with it.
07/25/2018 02:36 PMPosted by Rathir
I see what your saying and I get your point it just doesn’t change he fact that I honestly want ultimate vanilla. Why wouldn’t I?


Who would not want their own personal ultimate vanilla?

07/25/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Rathir
Then some will get on the floor and the dog will get blamed for spilling water then he will get sent to the pound for being bad and euthanized. So leaving a ice cube on the counter means the dog will get put down. That’s the slippery slope. It’s not a=b it’s a=z. That’s the same as saying 5 quests lead to whole new zones being put into the game. Your taking something small and saying something extraordinary will happen. Also classic isn’t vanilla their won’t be expacs so the whole idea that it will turn into retail is absurd.


Whoa, there.. This has nothing to do with a slippery slope argument, its just the fact that keeping the game within its defined parameters and doing the best job we can to make those options the best possible most "vanilla" outcome possible.

Additionally Classic may as well be Vanilla; yes there are going to be differences. Namely Classic WoW will not see any class updates like vanilla did. Classic WoW will not likely see earlier versions of certain loot.

Those are differences, but they're minor when you correctly tune raid bosses, dungeon bosses, and various NPC's to react correctly and be as difficult as they originally were when the content first went live.

Its 100% possible to have a "Vanilla experience" inside the parameters of 1.xxxxx gaming components.

However, its just not optional to add things that did not exist in the original timeline, because we do not get to build our own individual unique ultimate vanilla WoW, it's gotta be something that is within the boundaries or it quickly turns into a game built by committee.

Would a game built by committee literally = BFA? No, but you can bet your bum it would get a lot closer than you may expect because everyone like something different.

One guy likes the modern classes, another guy wants LFR, another guy wants transmog, another guy wants Arena, another guy wants Rated BG, another guy wants M+, another guy wants Mythic raid, another guy wants Wrath of the litch king and so on..

No, that is not a slippery slope, its just a fact of building anything by committee, you end up with a TON of crap you don't actually need at the cost of opening the doors to the flood. How do you think Modern WoW got to where it is now? Its a game built by committee, and that's why its in ruin compared to where it COULD be if they had of kept things a lot more structured toward only being an MMORPG.

Not all the modern features are bad for the game, but some are most certainly cancerous to the MMORPG aspect of BFA.

However, back to the entire point of this project............... To go back to Vanilla WoW, not some alternate universe where there is a bunch of extra crap.

If you asked me if I would like arena in Classic I would say yes, but if you asked me if we should put it in I would tell you NO WAY!

Because that's not what this project is about..

I would love a ton of new BG maps; Temple of Kotmogu is really good, I also rather like twin peaks, but that's just not up for discussion or even an option.

I would LOVE to have Arena as said before, but again not even a possibility, because its not part of Vanilla WoW.

I would love to have Shadow step, but guess what........ not Vanilla.

I would love to have Crusader Strike for paladin, but again.. Not vanilla..

I would absolutely LOVE to have mutilate for my rogue, but guess what? Not Vanilla.

I would freaking love shadow dance for my Rogue, but hey....... NOPE, not Vanilla.

I would love to have Hammer of the Righteous or Shield of the Righteous for my paladin but NOPE, its not part of Vanilla so hell no!

I would LOVE to have Cyclone for my Druid, but ya know what...... Not Vanilla!

I would absolutely love and enjoy RBG's but hey... guess what? Not Vanilla.

I would love to see all the TBC content re-tuned to work within the Vanilla framework, but you know what? Not vanilla, so HELL no.

Its not that I am against any of this stuff because I would love to have a "UBER WoW 2", but that's not what this project is about, its not about making any one of us "super happy", its about being able to go back to the beginning and enjoy the game for what it was.
07/25/2018 03:42 PMPosted by Dashel
...

I know that a classic server won't be ruined simply because Blizzard added a few quest chains in a barren zone you'll never actually go to... but apparently, enough people think so that we need 18 pages to debate it.

If your vision of Classic is so fragile that something like this is enough to shatter it and make you lose your mind, you don't get what classic was and you never will.


Classic is and always will be defined by its patch numbers.

If you throw in content from another expansion it becomes a abomination of what Classic was.
Its defined by its game mechanics and lore and awesome talent trees. It also doesn’t make it into an abomination it makes the game better than it already is.
Mods: Can we please delete these threads that are calling for in-game content not present within vanilla? Mods? Mods??

Devs: Can you please take two minutes to write another watercooler about whatever you have been spending time working on? What have you been doing for the past month? Anything??
...

Classic is and always will be defined by its patch numbers.

If you throw in content from another expansion it becomes a abomination of what Classic was.
Its defined by its game mechanics and lore and awesome talent trees. It also doesn’t make it into an abomination it makes the game better than it already is.


Completely false.

Classic is 1.0-1.12.3 as its final patch.

It stopped being Classic the moment 2.0 hit. Which then became World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade.

Which also has its own set patches as its life span.
Harland I think we agree on most of what you said. I just go one step further and say hell yeah put it in and I’ll be fine with it. Also what happened to your undead toon? Did you get a ban or something? Or are you a different Härländ?
07/25/2018 04:04 PMPosted by Syradra
... Its defined by its game mechanics and lore and awesome talent trees. It also doesn’t make it into an abomination it makes the game better than it already is.


Completely false.

Classic is 1.0-1.12.3 as its final patch.

It stopped being Classic the moment 2.0 hit. Which then became World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade.

Which also has its own set patches as its life span.
Look at this point I’m done arguing about it. How about we meet in the middle and agree that if wow classic is as big as we think it’ll be they create a whole new game with vanillas principals and game mechanics and add content from other versions. Like raids arenas stuff like that. But not flying or levels or better gear just lateral stuff. That’s what I would go play in a heartbeat.
07/25/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Rathir
Harland I think we agree on most of what you said. I just go one step further and say hell yeah put it in and I’ll be fine with it. Also what happened to your undead toon? Did you get a ban or something? Or are you a different Härländ?


Nah, just like the other avatar better.
...

Completely false.

Classic is 1.0-1.12.3 as its final patch.

It stopped being Classic the moment 2.0 hit. Which then became World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade.

Which also has its own set patches as its life span.
Look at this point I’m done arguing about it. How about we meet in the middle and agree that if wow classic is as big as we think it’ll be they create a whole new game with vanillas principals and game mechanics and add content from other versions. Like raids arenas stuff like that. But not flying or levels or better gear just lateral stuff. That’s what I would go play in a heartbeat.


We are more likely to see TBC servers if Classic is a success, or we are likely to see a future expansion be a lot more like Vanilla WoW.

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