Mob Scaling

General Discussion
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07/23/2018 04:50 PMPosted by Snowfox
Wow, op actually did the math and research.

Ok. Not that I've been saying scaling was fine, but I'll ensure not to going forward.


Not really math lol but more or less just spending like 20 minutes of my time to prove how screwed up scaling is to prove people who say it's a good change wrong.

But those saying blizzard will probably buff legion mobs to fix it are probably right.
Thank you for doing some ground work. I haven't tested any of the leveling stuff since most of my characters are already max level. Though I doubt they will fix this anytime soon.
It's not an issue anyone who says it is - just lazy and should quit the game anyways.
Good post op

I did notice that mobs in wod had more HP than 110 mobs

HP of 110 mobs needs to go up a little and everything else needs to go down
07/24/2018 01:56 AMPosted by Abkcamus
I hope, when they fix scaling, they keep it more in tune with what Legion was like and not what WoD was like.


This
They already said that instead of using actual people to review and tune the world, they tried to automate the stat squash (IMO to save money) and failed.

But besides failing at the squash itself, their QA was total trash.

I mean how hard is it to a sanity check on the scaling of player level to average damage done to mob HP, graph it, and make sure it fits a straight line linearly increasing from left to right instead of random curves with peaks in the middle.
07/24/2018 02:36 AMPosted by Shadowmoose
Leveling with my mage alt in Wrath content was miserable. I'm in full heirlooms and I need to be extremely cautious about adds whenever I pull. I feel extremely squishy and can barely handle 2-3 mobs at the same time.

I just played with my brand new 110 DH alt wearing blues/greens and it's a breeze in comparison. Not gonna bother leveling my alts until Blizz fixes this.


Then there is me when I went through wrath on this disc priest and it was boring combat wise. (I never did much wrath content before)

Thanks to smite debuffing the target so that it has to do a certain level of DPS most mobs simply cease to do damage at all. I just endlessly mash Smite with the occasional Schism just to make things die faster.

Though I did find a scaling bug today in Pandaria. There is a mob near the monastery that is neutral until attacked. It has a move called "Trickery" that does a random thing between making the mob look big, spawning 2 0 damage clones, and taking on your character appearance.

Whenever it rolled to copy my character and was smart enough to use Smite it would hit me for 50% of my HP through my shields.

Thankfully their AI is terrible.
07/23/2018 03:05 PMPosted by Yasudra
theyve already admitted that low level tuning is messed up. they focused on legion and bfa content and are planning on going back to fix pre-legion content.

we will have to be patient.


They said that in 7.3.5 and some of the bugs in that patch is added to this patch. So when is it 8.1, 8.2, or 9.0? It was reported that WOD was a mess then and I dont see it being fixed at all.
I was playing my 107 priest farming fur outside of my garrison getting my head handed to me rylecks and packs of boars leveled 101. Went over to legion to do an invasion and felt like an invulnerable god against mobs my level. Man I hate fur for tailors. This is not how it should be.
07/24/2018 04:19 AMPosted by Glamstar
07/23/2018 03:05 PMPosted by Yasudra
theyve already admitted that low level tuning is messed up. they focused on legion and bfa content and are planning on going back to fix pre-legion content.

we will have to be patient.


The problem with this is people are currently trying to level to play different classes during BFA. This is literally prime time for people to come back to the game in preparation for the new expansion. It should be the #1 thing they are fixing and not, soon to be, raids that are pointless.


People who are just coming back to the game should not be given priority. Next time they will come back sooner instead of waiting till the last minute maybe.

People who have been playing throughout and still raiding should be able to raid, aka the people who have been supporting this game throughout - that content deserves priority.
07/23/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Seraca
There are a lot of people complaining about leveling and how long it takes to kill mobs and that mobs have higher health than max level legion mobs.

But then you got a group of people that claim that's not true and it's all just a lie.

So I got bored and decided I'm gonna fly around and take a couple pictures to prove these people wrong.

I will post links to the pictures as proof but also show the health here for those to lazy to click a picture.

1.) Vanilla: Mob level 61 Health 3088
https://imgur.com/9urErjo
2.) Burning Crusade: Mob level 81 Health 5191
https://imgur.com/O0Lld9g
3.) Wrath: Mob level 81 Health 5059
https://imgur.com/vcVXCGU
4.) Pandaria: Mob level 91 Health 6519
https://imgur.com/d6gQ63O
5.) WoD: Mob level 101 Health 11228
https://imgur.com/gn7iMCB
6.) Legion: Mob level 111 Health 4332
https://imgur.com/qmN40Cv
7.) Legion (Broken Shore): Mob level 111 Health 5486
https://imgur.com/Bh7l5s0

Scaling is screwed up and needs fix there is no reason mobs in Wrath-WoD should have more health than legion mobs. Especially WoD mobs having more than twice as much.

Leveling is not okay it's broken anyone who says mob health is fine is way wrong.

THIS IS NOT OKAY. I just figured we needed some picture proof this time.


You do know mob health from mob to mob is not consistent in each expansion right ? There always have been difference in health between 110 mobs. I also don't understand your screens saying 111 mobs either tbh.

Anyway here is another mob from legion a 110 mob with 8023 health. I don't know about your other expansions but currently in legion content I am having to take 3 times as long to kill things as I had previous to last week.

https://imgur.com/a/AFOjEEv
07/24/2018 01:21 PMPosted by Amine
07/23/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Seraca
There are a lot of people complaining about leveling and how long it takes to kill mobs and that mobs have higher health than max level legion mobs.

But then you got a group of people that claim that's not true and it's all just a lie.

So I got bored and decided I'm gonna fly around and take a couple pictures to prove these people wrong.

I will post links to the pictures as proof but also show the health here for those to lazy to click a picture.

1.) Vanilla: Mob level 61 Health 3088
https://imgur.com/9urErjo
2.) Burning Crusade: Mob level 81 Health 5191
https://imgur.com/O0Lld9g
3.) Wrath: Mob level 81 Health 5059
https://imgur.com/vcVXCGU
4.) Pandaria: Mob level 91 Health 6519
https://imgur.com/d6gQ63O
5.) WoD: Mob level 101 Health 11228
https://imgur.com/gn7iMCB
6.) Legion: Mob level 111 Health 4332
https://imgur.com/qmN40Cv
7.) Legion (Broken Shore): Mob level 111 Health 5486
https://imgur.com/Bh7l5s0

Scaling is screwed up and needs fix there is no reason mobs in Wrath-WoD should have more health than legion mobs. Especially WoD mobs having more than twice as much.

Leveling is not okay it's broken anyone who says mob health is fine is way wrong.

THIS IS NOT OKAY. I just figured we needed some picture proof this time.


You do know mob health from mob to mob is not consistent in each expansion right ? There always have been difference in health between 110 mobs. I also don't understand your screens saying 111 mobs either tbh.

Anyway here is another mob from legion a 110 mob with 8023 health. I don't know about your other expansions but currently in legion content I am having to take 3 times as long to kill things as I had previous to last week.

https://imgur.com/a/AFOjEEv


...You can't be this stupid. I don't understand your screens... that's the level I even state that.

I just... good lord. Also wow 8k it's still less than a WOD mob. Stop being such a blizzdrone and realize it's screwed up.

Good lord you people will legitimately defend them when they are in the wrong. It's honestly sad.
07/23/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Seraca
There are a lot of people complaining about leveling and how long it takes to kill mobs and that mobs have higher health than max level legion mobs.

But then you got a group of people that claim that's not true and it's all just a lie.

So I got bored and decided I'm gonna fly around and take a couple pictures to prove these people wrong.

I will post links to the pictures as proof but also show the health here for those to lazy to click a picture.

1.) Vanilla: Mob level 61 Health 3088
https://imgur.com/9urErjo
2.) Burning Crusade: Mob level 81 Health 5191
https://imgur.com/O0Lld9g
3.) Wrath: Mob level 81 Health 5059
https://imgur.com/vcVXCGU
4.) Pandaria: Mob level 91 Health 6519
https://imgur.com/d6gQ63O
5.) WoD: Mob level 101 Health 11228
https://imgur.com/gn7iMCB
6.) Legion: Mob level 111 Health 4332
https://imgur.com/qmN40Cv
7.) Legion (Broken Shore): Mob level 111 Health 5486
https://imgur.com/Bh7l5s0

Scaling is screwed up and needs fix there is no reason mobs in Wrath-WoD should have more health than legion mobs. Especially WoD mobs having more than twice as much.

Leveling is not okay it's broken anyone who says mob health is fine is way wrong.

THIS IS NOT OKAY. I just figured we needed some picture proof this time.


there is one point id like to make in contrast to your point about legion mobs having less health. go to a legion mob and hit them with an ability on a 110 character and record the damage, here I will use shadowbolt as affliction

Legion Mob- 890

WoD Mob- 26726

around 30x more damage dealt to the WoD mob than to the legion one

now that being said while its current content because of gear scaling changes along with mob scaling there is definately something wrong with time to kill for levels 60-100 currently so on that point i agree with you. but blindly pointing at health totals without damage numbers is not a correct way to analyze the issue.

for instance from my observation power gained from gear prior to 110 has been severly nerfed by the gear scaling changes and as a result characters are much weaker than before prepatch and as a result take longer to kill correctly scaled mobs.

my evidence for this is a WoD crafted staff that i have on my 92 ele shaman i had it fully upgraded to 705 prior to prepatch and vs my heirloom staff it granted a damage increase of 41% over the heirloom staff.

now after prepatch the same two items compared, swapping to the crystalfire staff from heirloom only buffs my damage by a pitiful 2.1% all the while mobs havent gotten any weaker but obviously i have by a rather significant margin.
07/25/2018 08:23 AMPosted by Twistedshade
there is one point id like to make in contrast to your point about legion mobs having less health. go to a legion mob and hit them with an ability on a 110 character and record the damage, here I will use shadowbolt as affliction

Legion Mob- 890

WoD Mob- 26726

around 30x more damage dealt to the WoD mob than to the legion one

now that being said while its current content because of gear scaling changes along with mob scaling there is definately something wrong with time to kill for levels 60-100 currently so on that point i agree with you. but blindly pointing at health totals without damage numbers is not a correct way to analyze the issue.

for instance from my observation power gained from gear prior to 110 has been severly nerfed by the gear scaling changes and as a result characters are much weaker than before prepatch and as a result take longer to kill correctly scaled mobs.

my evidence for this is a WoD crafted staff that i have on my 92 ele shaman i had it fully upgraded to 705 prior to prepatch and vs my heirloom staff it granted a damage increase of 41% over the heirloom staff.

now after prepatch the same two items compared, swapping to the crystalfire staff from heirloom only buffs my damage by a pitiful 2.1% all the while mobs havent gotten any weaker but obviously i have by a rather significant margin.


Hm. You bring up an interesting point about damage.

A 110 doing that much to a 101 is normal this is due to the level difference and yadayada so doing that much is to be expected however if the mobs were in equal scale.

I'll do a test after I get out of work using my 110 hunter and my 100 hunter along with a few other classes that I have a 110 and 100 of.

I'll compare the damage done to mobs roughly their respective levels.
This happened last stat-squish. The stat squishes were kind of needed, but this is a side-effect.

This actually became in issue back in BC. Not because of a stat squish or anything, but because Blizzard increased the rate at which stats scale to prevent people from facerolling BC content with Naxx gear, so the scaling really ramps up each new expansion, to the point it is absurd and they had to stat squish, which has all these side-effects since damage of abilities is often built in to the ability adn can sometimes go under the radar. Remember thorns from the first one? Level 10 mobs could basically 1-shot people if they were attacked in melee range due to it.
07/24/2018 04:27 AMPosted by Makaghana


only fixing damage outputs, they are not touching hp values
they fixed 1-100 zone mobs
they just recently fixed low level dungeons tanks shouldnt be 1 shoted anymore


The 1-100 zone mob hotfix did absolutely nothing, sorry, no.

However, I did find out something quite useful just today! It's that you can cancel your BfA preorder (at least if you haven't used the boost, like I have not) and not get your account banned.

I know, I just did it on both my accounts. Most of my toons are old Classic toons, the leveling is just too slow and the loot table nonfunctional (as it has apparently been since last October, 2017 when world scaling went in).

My accounts are still in good standing, and I can still use the remaining game time that I've already paid for.

Those that are unhappy need to speak with their wallets. FFXIV Online is having a free 4-day promo right now. I'm downloading it as I type here.
07/25/2018 09:32 AMPosted by Seraca
07/25/2018 08:23 AMPosted by Twistedshade
there is one point id like to make in contrast to your point about legion mobs having less health. go to a legion mob and hit them with an ability on a 110 character and record the damage, here I will use shadowbolt as affliction

Legion Mob- 890

WoD Mob- 26726

around 30x more damage dealt to the WoD mob than to the legion one

now that being said while its current content because of gear scaling changes along with mob scaling there is definately something wrong with time to kill for levels 60-100 currently so on that point i agree with you. but blindly pointing at health totals without damage numbers is not a correct way to analyze the issue.

for instance from my observation power gained from gear prior to 110 has been severly nerfed by the gear scaling changes and as a result characters are much weaker than before prepatch and as a result take longer to kill correctly scaled mobs.

my evidence for this is a WoD crafted staff that i have on my 92 ele shaman i had it fully upgraded to 705 prior to prepatch and vs my heirloom staff it granted a damage increase of 41% over the heirloom staff.

now after prepatch the same two items compared, swapping to the crystalfire staff from heirloom only buffs my damage by a pitiful 2.1% all the while mobs havent gotten any weaker but obviously i have by a rather significant margin.


Hm. You bring up an interesting point about damage.

A 110 doing that much to a 101 is normal this is due to the level difference and yadayada so doing that much is to be expected however if the mobs were in equal scale.

I'll do a test after I get out of work using my 110 hunter and my 100 hunter along with a few other classes that I have a 110 and 100 of.

I'll compare the damage done to mobs roughly their respective levels.


alright I retested using a level 101 warrior with bloodthirst and your right

legion level 100 mob- 457

WoD level 100 mob- 458(change likely due to variance or other variables I couldn't eliminate with warriors)

but their health amounts were

legion- 3976 health

wod- 9980 health

yeah something is seriously !@#$ed up lol.
Hey guys! We've been discussing the continued concerns about the speed of leveling since the pre-patch and we have a couple of updates to share with you.

Since the pre-patch we've made a large number of hotfixes and changes to leveling content, and are continuing to find and fix bugs wherever possible. The intention was never to make leveling slower than it was in 7.3.5.

If you're still finding it slower that it was a couple of weeks ago after those hotfixes, specifics about where you are, what you're fighting, and what spec you're playing would be extremely helpful for identifying any remaining issues.

There is also a bit of weirdness at the moment with mob HP once you reach Legion content. Essentially due to de-powering the Artifact, we needed to make outdoor Legion mobs weaker than earlier content; otherwise, max level players would find themselves suddenly having a much harder time with outdoor world content such as World Quests. The development team realizes that this is resulting in a very jarring experience moving from Draenor to the Broken Isles, and plans to adjust Legion content to be more in-line with where it should be as leveling content in a future patch.

Thank you guys for your continued feedback on this!
Why bother? You didn't even listen to us when we complained about 7.3.5 levelling being dragged out for absolutely no reason other than desperation to keep your player engagement numbers higher
07/25/2018 10:01 AMPosted by Ythisens
Hey guys! We've been discussing the continued concerns about the speed of leveling since the pre-patch and we have a couple of updates to share with you.

Since the pre-patch we've made a large number of hotfixes and changes to leveling content, and are continuing to find and fix bugs wherever possible. The intention was never to make leveling slower than it was in 7.3.5.

If you're still finding it slower that it was a couple of weeks ago after those hotfixes, specifics about where you are, what you're fighting, and what spec you're playing would be extremely helpful for identifying any remaining issues.

There is also a bit of weirdness at the moment with mob HP once you reach Legion content. Essentially due to de-powering the Artifact, we needed to make outdoor Legion mobs weaker than earlier content; otherwise, max level players would find themselves suddenly having a much harder time with outdoor world content such as World Quests. The development team realizes that this is resulting in a very jarring experience moving from Draenor to the Broken Isles, and plans to adjust Legion content to be more in-line with where it should be as leveling content in a future patch.

Thank you guys for your continued feedback on this!

So, you nerfed Legion because you realized it needed to be weaker without artifacts, it created a rift between Draenor and Legion. People complain Draenor is too slow and takes forever to kill quest bosses etc and it’s boring, and now you need to adjust LEGION to appropriate values?

Can you explain how that’s the conclusion you made from this? Even in 7.3.5 people hated Draenor. The fix should be fairly obvious.

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