Suramar Insurgency: A Citizen's Perspective

Wyrmrest Accord
07/20/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Azhaar
What in the hell is even going on here? I'm not even mad, I'm too baffled.

The whole post makes sense as the perspective of a Nightborne loyalist noble, but I can't help but be reminded of those threads where people argue that the draenei deserved what they got because they named the planet they crashed on, or whatever.
07/20/2018 12:31 PMPosted by Ursuola
The whole post makes sense as the perspective of a Nightborne loyalist noble, but I can't help but be reminded of those threads where people argue that the draenei deserved what they got because they named the planet they crashed on, or whatever.


Maybe that's my issue. It sure does seem to hit the same tone, even if the subject matter is different.
07/20/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Gaeron
Remember, the general citizenry was completely unaffected by the Legion until the terrorist invasion started.
This is absolutely false on it's face. People were being put to death, imprisoned, and tortured when we arrived.

07/20/2018 07:31 AMPosted by Gaeron
Grand Magistrix Elisande was forced to ally with the Legion under threat of the destruction of her people at their hands (canon). And was, originally, one of the few people that opposed Queen Azshara and her alliance with the Burning Legion… being one that rebelled against it and a main factor why the Kaldorei Resistance was able to win out. Her ability to see all possible futures (which had worked prior to this moment) stated any resistance to the Legion would result in her people’s annhilation.
You prove the previous point false in your very next point. The Legion was coming in peace, but the Legion also would destroy them if they refused.

07/20/2018 07:31 AMPosted by Gaeron
The Legion lived peacefully with the Nightborne until that coup
Again, false.

07/20/2018 07:31 AMPosted by Gaeron
Several assassination attempts were made on the Grand Magistrix in plain public view of the citizenry by the Nightfallen terrorists and their insurgent allies (the Alliance and Horde participants in the atrocities committed).
Court of Stars, which wasn't in plain view. Where else? Not that I have a problem if it happened, it's just that... it didn't.

07/20/2018 07:31 AMPosted by Gaeron
The terrorists and insurgents continued to put the regular, lower class, citizenry in danger by holding meetings in the Waning Crescent as well as recruiting future terrorists into their organization there. Which led to the destruction of that tavern, as well as a great many known terrorist affiliated traitors in order to try and keep the peace in the city. Keep in mind this was the first real action the leadership took against the terrorists, although they had been escalating violence well prior to this.
The "terrorists" found allies in the people most affected by Elisande's tyranny. The ones being starved out as a form of torture to ensure their complacency.

07/20/2018 07:31 AMPosted by Gaeron
This was followed by the insurgency of the Sin’dorei and Kaldorei. Resulting in the deaths of a -lot- of Shal’dorei defenders… those trying to protect their loved ones included.
Everyone has loved ones. Like the children that the people you're supporting imprisoned. They were, and had, loved ones. Not sure why only one side matters to you, but okay.

07/20/2018 07:31 AMPosted by Gaeron
Quickly thereafter, the terrorist leader Thalyssra declared herself leader of the Nightborne… though no succession was evident to her leadership, nor was she elected to the position by a general vote of the population.
Confirm this with a canon source. We never saw an election, but we certainly never saw her declare herself leader or forcefully take power.

07/20/2018 07:31 AMPosted by Gaeron
The new ‘leader’ then allowed the destruction of the Nightwell, a font of energy that could have helped the Sha’dorei in the future that she was counseled against destroying by her own advisor.
It was a font of power that would be weaponized by anyone who could get to it, and was not needed due to the Arcan'dor. Why was its destruction bad?

07/20/2018 07:31 AMPosted by Gaeron
The new ‘leader’ then decided to join the Horde on a whim at the behest of one of the leaders of the, until recently, fel-addicted Sin’dorei instead of joining with their more closely related Kaldorei brethren whom they’d fought the War of the Ancients with… over petty word play between Tyrande (a former Suramarian citizen and probably the best choice to lead the Shal’dorei) and Thalyssra. Remember… the Kaldorei are people they were specifically allied with in the past.
Let’s not forget that she joined the Horde who is currently led by someone that treats other racial leaders as underlings whom she can boss around like slaves
This is the only point you've made that makes even relative sense, and even then, you're basing it on clear personal bias and headcanon, more than a logical argument. It's something you don't like. I don't particular either, but I'm also not going to use my opinion as a fact.

So I have two responses to this. Because I honestly cannot tell if you're trolling. Sincerely, cannot tell.

If you are: I have to applaud the effort, this was fairly elaborate.

If you are not: Almost all of this is headcanon, and the entire basis of it being a debate is null. You're making points based on what you'd like to be true, or your interpretation, not actual canon facts.
07/20/2018 12:30 PMPosted by Gaeron
Got side-tracked by someone that wanted it to be something else.
What? I'm not sure what you think I wanted it to be, I was directly commenting on the rationale you gave for the viewpoint. And then you felt the need to say I'm an inhumane jerk after questioning your sources.
07/20/2018 12:31 PMPosted by Ursuola
The whole post makes sense as the perspective of a Nightborne loyalist noble
Ohhh. Is that what this is? Like a semi-IC propaganda post by his character? That would actually make sense then.
I see you read the first post as well. Lol.

TL:DR- wrote why Gaeron, as a character doesn't like things.

Asked thought out reasons other shal'dorei had their reasons for liking/not liking.

Got thread hijacked by sourcing discussion and people who didn't read the point. Which I admittedly bought into.

Laughed hysterically at the fact that I tried a thought experiment about roleplay reasons on a roleplay server in the forums.

Because... weee! What a ride.
07/20/2018 12:47 PMPosted by Gaeron
Got thread hijacked by sourcing discussion and people who didn't read the point. Which I admittedly bought into.

Laughed hysterically at the fact that I tried a thought experiment about roleplay reasons on a roleplay server in the forums.

Because... weee! What a ride.


Being overly defensive and implying people are stupid in every other post isn't gonna get you anywhere. Do with that information what you will. That "lol y u mad bro? this is so funny that u so mad lol" crap is not the best way to win anyone over.

07/20/2018 12:47 PMPosted by Gaeron
I see you read the first post as well. Lol.
I did.

07/20/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Gaeron
What I do want to focus on is the reasons the people of Suramar City should feel the same he does about what’s happened.
The issue is that Gaeron seems really ill-informed about everything, so realistically, people who were actually around for the horror show wouldn't feel the way he did. My nightborne had his eyes cut out by Duskwatch troops for refusing to serve demons. I mean it's cool Gaeron was apparently in a room with no windows, sipping arcwine on pillows for 8 months, but people who actually know what happened probably don't feel the same way.
07/20/2018 12:47 PMPosted by Gaeron
Asked thought out reasons other shal'dorei had their reasons for liking/not liking.
So was it all meant to be an IC discussion? The way it read is that you wanted to discuss information limited to a character, which is what I was trying to address. The facts a character would know and how they'd feel.

Relating back to my character specifically, he knew allying with demons was the height of folly. It knocked down Azshara and now it knocked down Elisande. It was that decision that brought the Legion past their 10,000 year strong shield, that led to unnecessary rationing, and to the death of so many friends. The entire thing could have been avoided if it weren't for the sycophants that bought into her oracle act.
07/20/2018 12:55 PMPosted by Zenrao
The issue is that Gaeron seems really ill-informed about everything, so realistically, people who were actually around for the horror show wouldn't feel the way he did. My nightborne had his eyes cut out by Duskwatch troops for refusing to serve demons. I mean it's cool Gaeron was apparently in a room with no windows, sipping arcwine on pillows for 8 months, but people who actually know what happened probably don't feel the same way.


Roleplay requires a bit of suspending player knowledge. Which I also clearly stated as there is no true source of information that the characters could have that the player has. You can sit here and claim misinformation all you want, but really your perfect information is driven by an external means...

Unless you roleplay a literal 'Champion of the Horde/Alliance' with an artifact. In which case, you have close to perfect information.

Which is why the thought experiment.

But instead of participating. Explaining what your shal'dorei thinks, and why... which is the point of the thread, so I could see what other character's viewpoints were, experiences were during the war, just attack me... and the made up perspective I posted.

So, the vast majority of the citizenry during the time we were assaulting Suramar was walking the streets unabashedly until the final showdown, where the poor were removed during the whole 'Now Elisande is sacrificing innocents to the Legion after murder-facing the rebellion people' storyline. Which was right before the hero(s) put an end to her.

Were they all really ill-informed? Or does that illustrate specifically how the people thought of the situation, except for those directly affiliated with the rebellion? I'm thinking the latter.

Sounds like that eye thing hurt. How'd he live? See, that's the stuff I want to know. That's what the entirety of this thread was about. Because, just like Gaeron's experience, I can tell you your shal'dorei's wasn't typical either... because most would never have been put into that position... and most who were didn't have their eyes cut out, but were fed to demon engines or whatnot.

Once again... this doesn't justify the means. Many citizens died during that war, a lot of them killed by people other than the Legion, and not recognizing that as a source of motivation behind people's roleplay, or hate of the leadership... is just, well... not realistic. Just like not recognizing that people would have other points of view.

And -

Laughed hysterically at the fact that I tried a thought experiment about roleplay reasons on a roleplay server in the forums.

Because... weee! What a ride.


While I can see how you might think I'm upset. I'm not. I've just seen this happen too much to a lot of other threads here to think that it wouldn't happen on mine. I am laughing at myself.
07/20/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Floren
Relating back to my character specifically, he knew allying with demons was the height of folly. It knocked down Azshara and now it knocked down Elisande. It was that decision that brought the Legion past their 10,000 year strong shield, that led to unnecessary rationing, and to the death of so many friends. The entire thing could have been avoided if it weren't for the sycophants that bought into her oracle act.


I can see that. So, his view on the leadership now? What about joining the Horde instead of the Alliance? Did he think they should join either?

Who would he support if he could do it all over again, without having any further knowledge than what he has now?
You don't seem to want any actual discussion, just to insult others' intelligence and roleplay merits if they don't agree with your interpretation.

You seem to be under the impression that awareness of any current event is meta-gaming, and that anyone disagreeing with you is attacking you. And when everyone in a room is telling you something you should change about your approach, your solution is just to decree everyone else is just mean or unintelligent. You've been hostile, rude, dismissive, and insulting since the start of the thread. I would suggest a more open-minded approach. Before asking for opinions, ask yourself if you really want to hear them. If you don't, there's nothing wrong with abstaining.
07/20/2018 01:21 PMPosted by Gaeron
Sounds like that eye thing hurt. How'd he live? See, that's the stuff I want to know.
You said you wanted to focus on why NB characters should feel the same as yours. I disagree with that, and listed why. You took that as an attack. Which again leads me to suggest maybe this type of thread isn't something for you.
I'm sorry you didn't like my response. I hope your day turns out better for you.
07/20/2018 01:36 PMPosted by Gaeron
I'm sorry you didn't like my response. I hope your day turns out better for you.
My day is fine? And this is basically what I just said to you. I'm more certain now that you're trolling.
Good one. Edit that response a fourth time. :)
07/20/2018 01:42 PMPosted by Gaeron
Good one. Edit that response a fourth time. :)
... I edited that response once, to add the quote and down. I didn't remove anything, just stop, man. You're not as good at this as you think.

Edit: And then you delete your comment? Tsk tsk, hypocrisy is one of the number one pet peeves in the world.
Allying with the Legion is OK as long as the people who disagree with you did some things that you can wildly misconstrue.
07/20/2018 02:31 PMPosted by Cailias
Allying with the Legion is OK as long as the people who disagree with you did some things that you can wildly misconstrue.
They murdered innocent soldiers. Soldiers who were just providing for their families by imprisoning children, sacrificing souls to the Legion, and murdering anyone who disagrees with them about anything. And worse than that? We ruined everything for the shal'dorei 1%. Even after they were nice enough to forcefully employ children of dead dissidents as footstools.

By the Titans, we're monsters.

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