Complaints are feedback, quit !@#$%ing

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07/24/2018 11:59 AMPosted by Ythisens
07/24/2018 11:51 AMPosted by Blincc
I like the changes and think the game is moving in a great direction. Change is hard for people to handle; tears are usually the result.


I heard a quote once from a podcast that I religiously have listened to for years now where one of the hosts once said "Humans demand progress, but hate change". It's always stuck to me and its very true and can be applied to really anything.


Just as long as we all remember that change for its own sake is almost never good and 'progress' , especially in a game, must be suited for its venue.
Too many of the changes were unasked for; some of them were even without telling us ('we want you to discover these organically').

We're not here to be little guinea pigs; we're paying customers.
For now.
Or you can provide meaningful feedback and hope that enough people agree with you that Blizzard acts on it. I am sorry to say, 30 pages on an alpha forum doesn't mean it was a statistically relevant amount of people. Blizzard has access to live feedback internally, and yes, the forums are useful sometimes, but a lot of times, it is a few people making a lot of noise.


Can you back that up with anything tangible?
07/24/2018 12:19 PMPosted by Sevaira
07/24/2018 11:53 AMPosted by Crunkmonk
Its not our job to write long retorts as to why something sucks. We can just simply voice it sucks.


Not going to get you very far. I have worked in Customer Service my entire life, every place of business that I have worked took comment cards, feedback emails and threw them out if they where not calm thought out complaints. Everyone of these places valued customer feedback so long as it was well written. You can work with detailed thoughts on subject, you cannot really deal with temper tantrums.


The form is one large comment card. If you had 10 cards that said something was wrong but it was not well written would you throw that out too?
Same goes for many of these posts.
Incoming forum lock. But yeah i do wish they listened to the players instead of just doing what they think is good and fun.
Time Gating Sucks . Stop doing it.

There's your complaint. Feed back , and your fix.

There's not a single person that likes it. If they claim they do there just a fanboy in
Denial.
07/24/2018 11:59 AMPosted by Ythisens
07/24/2018 11:51 AMPosted by Blincc
I like the changes and think the game is moving in a great direction. Change is hard for people to handle; tears are usually the result.


I heard a quote once from a podcast that I religiously have listened to for years now where one of the hosts once said "Humans demand progress, but hate change". It's always stuck to me and its very true and can be applied to really anything.


No one ever achieves progress with 100% success. Case in point? GCD and forced personal loot, but there is an abundance of feedback on those topics elsewhere. The lack of communication on those topics, and stubbornness to change, is frustrating.
07/24/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Drastic
Time Gating Sucks . Stop doing it.

There's your complaint. Feed back , and your fix.

There's not a single person that likes it. If they claim they do there just a fanboy in
Denial.

Sure, time gating sucks, leveling sucks, attunements suck, gear checks suck, gear resets suck, the nerf curve sucks, the rng sucks.

.. because the game also needs valleys - not just peaks.

Do I love the dazed effect and losing RNG? Of course not.. but I understand why they are necessary.
07/24/2018 12:22 PMPosted by Grizzlpaw
I agree with this statement, but there's a problem.

Classes have not made any real progress in 3 expansions. It's been the opposite actually.

Classes have been regressing since WoD.
A beating heart expands and retracts, this game is very much alive.
07/24/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Drastic
Time Gating Sucks . Stop doing it.

There's your complaint. Feed back , and your fix.

There's not a single person that likes it. If they claim they do there just a fanboy in
Denial.


Maxing what little they have.
The best part is if you like time gating you can just stop doing the quest and log out and wait a week for the same result!
07/24/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Ythisens
07/24/2018 07:13 AMPosted by Kozz
...

Complaining isnt feedback. Feedback is constructive and calm. For instance. instead of a post like this:

Leveling now sucks!! i'ts too !@#$ing slow if I don't see a change I'm NOT COMING BACK BLIZZZARD WHY DO YOU SUCK SO MUCH RAAAAWWRRR" <---This is a useless tantrum

Try to do something like this:

"I don't like the current form of leveling. I think it's too slow and does not appropriately reward my time and effort. For instance, dungeon xp is too low currently and the daily bonus does not correlate with the effort put into the harder dungeon content, I think that a good solution to this would be to increase the dungeon bonus by 2x to make the content feel worthwhile" <----Feedback expresses a problem calmly, actually pinpoints the issue, and then offers a possible solution.

So I do understand your concern OP, but you're wrong. Feedback isnt just a complaint in the form of a tantrum, it's a calm complaint that is explicitly identified and then offered a solution.


I'm quoting this because it's a good reply and I couldn't have said it better.


Interesting.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761996118?page=179 - there are 179 pages of feedback.

Not all of it useful - but quite a few good suggestions in there.

Have seen no comments whatsoever in there, apart from the first post that kicked it off.

"So this how to post feedback" stuff kind of falls on deaf ears. Seems like only selectively choose to listen (as in, only respond to things that align to whatever your initial intentions were anyways).
07/24/2018 12:11 PMPosted by Lavanana
When blizzard asks us for feedback and how to make things work - we do, and its ignored.
Just because they don't implement your feedback does not mean it is ignored. If enough people mention it, they may internally discuss it from which point they can a) implement it, b) table it for later, or c) decide to keep the current course.[/quote]

Oh so that is the golden answer is it? Jusg sit here wondering if stuff will be done?
Stop thinking like a consumer and start thinking like a producer.

They have a service to sell and what matters is what they make here. If I tell them I not happy I'll get white knights telling me that my opinion is wrong OR that my feedback is listened to but not implemented.

During beta a large amount of feedback was given and a lot of it has been ignored. In fact, most of it.

People are angry and let's not pretend since they scrapped showing sub numbers people have lost faith in their product - and this happened when we downed Arthas and moved to Cata. There was boasting of 15 million I believe? Then the number dramatically dropped to about 8 million or so and then the numbers were kept secret.

Something went wrong.
07/24/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Candlevoid
Or you can provide meaningful feedback and hope that enough people agree with you that Blizzard acts on it. I am sorry to say, 30 pages on an alpha forum doesn't mean it was a statistically relevant amount of people. Blizzard has access to live feedback internally, and yes, the forums are useful sometimes, but a lot of times, it is a few people making a lot of noise.


Can you back that up with anything tangible?


They demonstrated their heatmaps last blizzcon in the systems panel. Showing how they detect bottlenecks and player progression through zones. They also have access for stats like Time To Die on bosses and such. Do you think players are the only that parse logs? Blizzard created the logging system in this game for a reason.

Backed up.
The fact that some people think OP has a great point, is also much of the reason a lot of "feedback" is discarded as just so much noise.
07/24/2018 12:22 PMPosted by Valethria
Complaining is complaining. Feedback is feedback...thats why they have different terms.

Something can be two things. For example, I'm a Draenei and I am a Paladin. Yet, they are not the same thing.

Also, your post is a comment, it's also a response, it's also a block of text and it's also an opinion. Yet, those 4 things are not all one in the same.

That said, pretty much all complaints are feedback, as long as they are directed to the right person/organization.

THAT IS NOT FEEDBACK. Its crying.

Frankly, telling someone they are crying is less productive than the person who originally 'threw the tantrum'.
07/24/2018 12:27 PMPosted by Callindre
The fact that some people think OP has a great point, is also much of the reason a lot of "feedback" is discarded as just so much noise.

Well, a lot of "feedback" IS just noise. Too many people just vent emotionally instead of actually explaining what the problem is. "fire the devs", "the game sucks!", "wow is dying!" are not actually helpful feedback.

Besides, if you have two players and:
Player A explains cleanly and clearly what the problem is.
Player B just rants emotionally without any focus.

Of course Blizzard is going to listen to Player A more than B. It doesn't mean Player A gets their undivided attention and will do exactly what they want.

...it just means Player A has a better chance than Player B.
07/24/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Psyløck

Guess what, if the majority of the feedback is complaints about leveling being too slow well it means somethings wrong with it even if you the very obnoxious- er I mean vocal forum elitist minority don't like it.


The majority of the feedback here does not in any way represent the majority of the player base. A fraction of a fraction come to the forums at all.

So, no, it doesn't mean anything is wrong - and in fact could be intended by the designers.
07/24/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Drastic
Time Gating Sucks . Stop doing it.

There's your complaint. Feed back , and your fix.

There's not a single person that likes it. If they claim they do there just a fanboy in
Denial.


For the past 4 years i’ve been mainly playing ESO. I’m not a fanboy. I don’t have a problem with it. I don’t need everything right now.
Alright, here is my constructive criticism.

I feel the new guild controls were not necessary. The old system gave players a level of control that made it feel like their own personal guild. The new system takes much of that away.

The new default UI. Why were we given a new default UI? Im not really mad as the Bartender addon reverted the changes for me back to the way I liked them, but why even implement it at all? Was it change for the sake of change?

Changing my characters names in guild chat to its "assigned" color also feels not necessary. Its honestly distracting to see walls of different colored names scrolling instead of the standard green it used to be.

Just my opinion, see y'all in BFA.
07/24/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Candlevoid
...

Can you back that up with anything tangible?


They demonstrated their heatmaps last blizzcon in the systems panel. Showing how they detect bottlenecks and player progression through zones. They also have access for stats like Time To Die on bosses and such. Do you think players are the only that parse logs? Blizzard created the logging system in this game for a reason.

Backed up.


None of that has to do with satisfaction though. Again, read this post:

[quote="207649577312"][quote]Or you can provide meaningful feedback and hope that enough people agree with you that Blizzard acts on it. I am sorry to say, 30 pages on an alpha forum doesn't mean it was a statistically relevant amount of people. Blizzard has access to live feedback internally, and yes, the forums are useful sometimes, but a lot of times, it is a few people making a lot of noise.


The context matters. That isn't referring to "progression" or "time to die on bosses." Can you separate the two or no?
07/24/2018 12:02 PMPosted by Draical
07/24/2018 11:57 AMPosted by Lavanana
...

Its said like this on beta and ptr etc and nothing is done.

Why do we even bother giving constructive feedback when its largely ignored?
Through beta there has a mass of feedback regarding all aspects of the game but mostly it's all been ignored.

I agree constructive feedback is better than a tantrum but when its ignored and glaringly obvious bugs and imbalances make it to live, what's the point?


I can't believe people take beta and the ptr seriously anymore anyway. Beta is used for nothing more than an another path of advertisement for Blizzard and many other games. There are entirely too many bugs that make it out of beta and on live that are reported month after month and don't ever get fixed. Look how long it took for some of the game breaking bugs to get fixed in legion, like the warrior d/c bug when they left their class hall. Or the DH rush d/c bug.

Quality isn't really a big deal anymore with Blizzard.


Why do you continue to reward them with money (tokens just mean your account is worth 20 rather the normal rate of 15 dollars) if you feel the quality is not worth it?

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