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We're complaining about Artifacts?

Didn't we know this entire time what was going to happen?
07/24/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Snowfox
We're complaining about Artifacts?

Didn't we know this entire time what was going to happen?


Why choose one piece? Theres a lot MORE feedback there.
I think it's more about the way it ended rather than the fact itself. Though granted that's finished there's no real way to fix that anymore.
07/24/2018 12:57 PMPosted by Lavanana
07/24/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Snowfox
We're complaining about Artifacts?

Didn't we know this entire time what was going to happen?


Why choose one piece? Theres a lot MORE feedback there.

Well not really.

There's four items listed:
1 DXGI (which I have no stance on)
2 Poor level scaling (which Blizzard has acknowledge as a problem)
3 Poor content release schedule (which is really just saying the patch seems rushed)
4 Artifacts
07/24/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Snowfox
We're complaining about Artifacts?

Didn't we know this entire time what was going to happen?

Since Legion Alpha.
07/24/2018 01:05 PMPosted by Cyouskin
07/24/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Snowfox
We're complaining about Artifacts?

Didn't we know this entire time what was going to happen?

Since Legion Alpha.


Not the only feedback. Stop focusing down one piece. It's almost devaluing the rest of the legitimate feedback.
07/24/2018 01:02 PMPosted by Snowfox
07/24/2018 12:57 PMPosted by Lavanana
...

Why choose one piece? Theres a lot MORE feedback there.

Well not really.

There's four items listed:
1 DXGI (which I have no stance on)
2 Poor level scaling (which Blizzard has acknowledge as a problem)
3 Poor content release schedule (which is really just saying the patch seems rushed)
4 Artifacts


2. I don't think blizzard acknowledges the second part as a problem; only in pieces.

3. Rushing is in fact often an indication of something being done poorly. If you don't believe me, you can read over the post which identifies and admits multiple serious problems with the rushed BFA features.
07/24/2018 01:05 PMPosted by Cyouskin
07/24/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Snowfox
We're complaining about Artifacts?

Didn't we know this entire time what was going to happen?

Since Legion Alpha.


And who got to play Alpha? Not I... Nor most of the people in game. Not everyone reads the forums and knows all that's going on.. Some of us actually play the game and expect the game to unfold these events.
07/24/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Snowfox
We're complaining about Artifacts?

Didn't we know this entire time what was going to happen?


07/24/2018 12:57 PMPosted by Zoevil
I think it's more about the way it ended rather than the fact itself. Though granted that's finished there's no real way to fix that anymore.


Yeah it's the way Blizzard went about it that bugs me... there's a short optional quest in Silithus that explains a few things but you're not forced to do it. Patch hits, log in, and your weapon is drained... I mean we had those weapons for almost two years, they're the strongest weapons in Azeroth that are also very iconic and represent each class, they deserved a better send off... but as Zoe mentioned, water under the bridge now.
07/24/2018 01:07 PMPosted by Lavanana
07/24/2018 01:05 PMPosted by Cyouskin
...
Since Legion Alpha.


Not the only feedback. Stop focusing down one piece. It's almost devaluing the rest of the legitimate feedback.

So you concede then that there is no problem with Artifacts?

That everyone knew plenty well ahead of time what was going to happen?

Concede that, and I'll drop it.
07/24/2018 01:05 PMPosted by Cyouskin
07/24/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Snowfox
We're complaining about Artifacts?

Didn't we know this entire time what was going to happen?

Since Legion Alpha.


This is similar to saying "We know the World Tree is gonna burn, so it doesn't matter who did it."... story elements are important.
07/24/2018 01:07 PMPosted by Lavanana
07/24/2018 01:05 PMPosted by Cyouskin
...
Since Legion Alpha.


Not the only feedback. Stop focusing down one piece. It's almost devaluing the rest of the legitimate feedback.

I have no meaningful input on the other pieces.

Poor scaling can be fixed rather easily, though it does take time to collect, update, and test the monster templates.

Content release isn't important to me because this expansion went far better than MOP's SoO and WOD's drought. Pre-patch doesn't mean much to me, so long as the actual BFA content is fun and engaging. I don't want to judge pre-patch when I've yet to experience it fully.

Fullscreen complaints are fair and legitimate. I use Windowed Borderless either way. I have nothing to add to that discussion.
Look at half of what is linked here.
Its the exact problem that was just brought up in the thread Yth replied to.

People are just saying they dislike things and expect Blizzard to change their entire design philosophy for that.

You have to suggest a solution, and it better be a solution that actually makes sense in the game today.

They aren't going to allow you to suddenly one shot mobs again and get 5 levels per dungeon like you used to.

The bugs themselves have been being addressed and they will continue to be.
This post is probably the best case for actual change that was linked here:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766196849?blzcmp=app#post-1

Its not as cut and dry as people think though, because its more of a scaling thing then just a raw health thing, but listing actual numbers and facts about the topic instead of saying "It took me two hours to level from 58-59" is just a mandatory part of this.

If you are serious about wanting change, you need to take the discussion about the topic serious too.

And I hope you'll recognize that many of the things that are commonly targeted as complaints are just a part of the design of the game now.

Things like getting flying for free and no spells on the GCD or easy Mage tower-like content... You are gonna have to use a LOT of facts to convince them on that stuff.
07/24/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Metrohaha
Look at half of what is linked here.
Its the exact problem that was just brought up in the thread Yth replied to.

People are just saying they dislike things and expect Blizzard to change their entire design philosophy for that.


Half of what is linked here is in response to the post that Yth made.

07/24/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Metrohaha

You have to suggest a solution, and it better be a solution that actually makes sense in the game today.

They aren't going to allow you to suddenly one shot mobs again and get 5 levels per dungeon like you used to.


Haha what? Am I being paid to improve Blizzard's game? No? Then how about I tell you the problems and you fix them? Wait, you're not getting paid either? If you don't have any solutions then revert the changes. Imagine if you went to an auto mechanic to get new headlights and your car came back with malfunctioning breaks and no steering wheel. You wouldn't give a flying heck if it was going to get fixed eventually within the course of the year; you want a working car today. If the introduced headlights were the root cause of the problem, then the mechanic is responsible for setting things back to the way they were.

To take the analogy further, asking us to offer solutions is like turning to the mechanic you paid, only to have him ask you 'what do you think can fix this?'

07/24/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Metrohaha

The bugs themselves have been being addressed and they will continue to be.
This post is probably the best case for actual change that was linked here:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766196849?blzcmp=app#post-1

Its not as cut and dry as people think though, because its more of a scaling thing then just a raw health thing, but listing actual numbers and facts about the topic instead of saying "It took me two hours to level from 58-59" is just a mandatory part of this.


I literally linked a post with the exact numbers and facts on the topic.

07/24/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Metrohaha

If you are serious about wanting change, you need to take the discussion about the topic serious too.

And I hope you'll recognize that many of the things that are commonly targeted as complaints are just a part of the design of the game now.

Things like getting flying for free and no spells on the GCD or easy Mage tower-like content... You are gonna have to use a LOT of facts to convince them on that stuff.


You mean like the 300+ posts on GCD's with pure facts on why the change would slow down gameplay and really hurt certain classes? Or the 200+ posts on how not being able to fly in zones from 2 xpac's ago is hurting the already painful leveling curve?

And screw you for even bringing up MT like it's remotely similar or even relevant to the previous two examples. You just bunched up two real problems with some next level bullhonkey.
07/24/2018 01:05 PMPosted by Cyouskin
07/24/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Snowfox
We're complaining about Artifacts?

Didn't we know this entire time what was going to happen?

Since Legion Alpha.

Seems to me then Blizzard should have planned well in advance how character builds would be compensated for this loss with new abilities or talents.
07/24/2018 02:48 PMPosted by Velara
Seems to me then Blizzard should have planned well in advance how character builds would be compensated for this loss with new abilities or talents.


Why?
The problem is not the way artifacts retired it just BFA have no new talents and azerite gear is a poor mans tier replacement that tier is also gone. Next add in the stat and ilvl squish and everyone going to miss them period. If it was a system in BFA that was as fun as artifacts but not as grindy, some of us would be ok with it.

07/24/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Metrohaha
If you are serious about wanting change, you need to take the discussion about the topic serious too.


Is that serious enough? Or do I need like 30 years more of research and footnotes added to the OP post?
07/24/2018 03:00 PMPosted by Amadori
Is that serious enough? Or do I need like 30 years more of research and footnotes added to the OP post?


That's a bit of a melodramatic addition, don't you think?

People aren't necessarily resisting the ideas presented here just to resist them (though they may disagree in some cases). They're trying to get people to put things into a form that Blizzard will actually pay attention to. Are they interested in a thread that just links a bunch of other threads? Not much. They want to hear what we, as individuals, want out of the game. Not "everyone else already said what I wanted to say." They still want to hear from each of us.

Focusing on the last bit is just saying "hey, you've got a bit of a red herring here--might want to pull that out." Communication ain't the easiest thing in the universe. Constructive criticism? That's actually really tough to do.

Constructive criticism of criticism? I think that takes 4 Ph.D.s and a psychology minor.

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