Tanks shouldn't be GCD-locked

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
I think that as annoying as the GCD change is, in practice it worked out fine for nearly all DPS and healing specs; However, for a largely reactive role like tanks, the change really feels like it's going against the very concept of the role.

A lot of abilities tanks have thanks to the push for 'active mitigation' are tied to reacting to the encounters, and when you've not done them before -- or you don't have addons tracking everything -- this becomes a bit problematic in more than a few instances, especially with tanks like Warriors & Paladins who's abilities have to be timed well to be effective.

I propose that the GCD change be removed from ALL tank defensive abilities that weren't on the GCD before. I'm okay with f. example Avatar / Avenging Wrath staying on the GCD, and maybe all the paladin defensive buttons sharing a separate, defensive-only GCD; But it feels really backwards to just blanket all the defensive abilities into the same GCD as all the other stuff.

Remember -- Tanks have to both maintain a solid amount of threat AND not die. That's what makes it so bothersome over dps / healer role, who both have a more straightforward job.
I second this, from a prot paly's perspective. We even got off easy on this one with Shield of the Righteous still being off the GCD. But it feels -horrible- being unable to react to incoming damage with Hand of the Protector being on the GCD now. And that's only every 11s or so - for a class that at least has open GCDs to spend on it. It just kills our ability to react.

Warriors got screwwwwed by this with Ignore Pain.
08/01/2018 10:00 AMPosted by Lina
I propose that the GCD change be removed from ALL tank defensive abilities that weren't on the GCD before. I'm okay with f. example Avatar / Avenging Wrath staying on the GCD,


Avatar is a defensive ability. It breaks roots and generates resources. Yes, it buffs damage. I don't know if a GCD-less version will give Warriors a DPS advantage at L120. For all I know, Warrior DPS could be terrible at 120 and we're being further punished by having it on the GCD.

Intercept is also a defensive ability. Being off the GCD would give Warriors a bigger movement advantage but a clutch Intercept can also save a good amount of damage to someone else.

This is on top of the problem the build/spend rage model as it is right now doesn't really work with the GCD in general.
Yes, everyone thinks the solution to their problems is removing GCDs. Perhaps you should try and be more original in your suggestions, because it's obvious the devs have dug their heels in about gcds.
08/01/2018 10:39 AMPosted by Dumb
Yes, everyone thinks the solution to their problems is removing GCDs. Perhaps you should try and be more original in your suggestions, because it's obvious the devs have dug their heels in about gcds.


maybe you should get more original than posting worthless comments on a "Dumb Troll"
08/01/2018 10:39 AMPosted by Dumb
Yes, everyone thinks the solution to their problems is removing GCDs.
I mean if enough people think it's a good solution..
08/02/2018 12:42 PMPosted by Ascetic
08/01/2018 10:39 AMPosted by Dumb
Yes, everyone thinks the solution to their problems is removing GCDs.
I mean if enough people think it's a good solution..
A lot of people thought burning witches at the stake was a good solution to their problems too. Turns out, just because a lot of people think something doesn't make it a good idea.

More realistically, most complaints I've seen on the forums don't even understand that it's the massive drop in haste that makes rotations feel bad in BfA, but they blame it on the gcd change anyway.
08/02/2018 01:19 PMPosted by Dumb
A lot of people thought burning witches at the stake was a good solution to their problems too. Turns out, just because a lot of people think something doesn't make it a good idea.

More realistically, most complaints I've seen on the forums don't even understand that it's the massive drop in haste that makes rotations feel bad in BfA, but they blame it on the gcd change anyway.


reductio ad absurdem doesn't prove your point there. One has to do with personal comfort in a video game, the other involved killing people. Don't discredit yourself that way.

And haste has nothing to with bad rotations. The bad rotations is due to the empty gcds, not other spells being on the gcd, and haste does not fix that problem. Basically more haste = lower gcd time = more button presses = the same amount of dead or empty gcds. If you need a better explanation, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0lXC9IXbiI&t=1s
With tanks in particular it has nothing to do with haste; It has more to do with the tank having to choose between mitigation, threat and cooldowns. Which are often all needed at the same time, much more so than in case of a dps or a healer.

More-over, the 'blanket' GCD change has been proven to be problematic, with the devs reverting it for many, many spells; I don't foresee ignore pain / light of the protector / bear & brew abilities remaining on it for much longer, once the bulk of the playerbase begins doing serious pve content. And it's best to rip the band-aid off sooner, you know?
Agreed. Very dumb change. Some times we have to react quickly to a boss ability and being locked out of that 3m CD for 1.5s could mean the difference between a kill and a wipe.
08/02/2018 02:10 PMPosted by Ascetic
reductio ad absurdem doesn't prove your point there. One has to do with personal comfort in a video game, the other involved killing people. Don't discredit yourself that way.
Haha, there are plenty of examples of popular opinion being demonstrably wrong. It's not hard to understand the context here, if you use some reasoning.

08/02/2018 02:10 PMPosted by Ascetic
And haste has nothing to with bad rotations.
Quite interesting how people are using the gcd change to complain about rotations that are 0% different from legion rotations, then.
08/02/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Dumb
Quite interesting how people are using the gcd change to complain about rotations that are 0% different from legion rotations, then.


because the gcd change does effect it, placing offensive and defensive cds on gcd just feels bad, it does effect your rotation. you know you have a big damage phase coming up, you press your cd only to watch a second and a half of it tick away because of a change that only a small percentage of people needed or even wanted.

its classic blizz hammer over scalpel approach and it breaks more things than it fixes.
08/02/2018 02:13 PMPosted by Lina
With tanks in particular it has nothing to do with haste; It has more to do with the tank having to choose between mitigation, threat and cooldowns. Which are often all needed at the same time, much more so than in case of a dps or a healer.


You just said, what is the exact point - they don't want you to be able to do everything at once, they want the choice of what you do to be meaningful.
08/02/2018 02:53 PMPosted by Fenier
You just said, what is the exact point - they don't want you to be able to do everything at once, they want the choice of what you do to be meaningful.
Some people don't believe choices are a thing that should be made in rpgs. They enjoy playing reactionary to every situation and never having to think about what they're doing.
Didn't know a reaction means you don't think.
08/02/2018 02:53 PMPosted by Fenier
08/02/2018 02:13 PMPosted by Lina
With tanks in particular it has nothing to do with haste; It has more to do with the tank having to choose between mitigation, threat and cooldowns. Which are often all needed at the same time, much more so than in case of a dps or a healer.


You just said, what is the exact point - they don't want you to be able to do everything at once, they want the choice of what you do to be meaningful.


Except tanks are -supposed to- do everything at once? You lose aggro -> healer dies -> group wipes; You don't use a cooldown -> you die -> group wipes; You fumble a defensive -> you die -> group wipes. It's a non choice. Either one of those 3 things not accounted for leads to failure, and many encounters require you to be able to do all 3 at once.

It's not like with DPS where most encounters give you a reasonable lee-way time to p much never hit enrage if your players aren't AFK, or with healers who only need everything at once if your group screws up. Tanking is still designed in a way where you need to do a lot of things in any given moment, which severely clashes with GCD-changes' design philosophy.

I never mentioned blood DK in this thread because our defensives -are- our threat, so ironically enough the slowest class in the game has it the best with shuffling all 3 things tanks need to do; However, with abilities like ignore pain / frenzied regeneration / ESPECIALLY light of the protector, the change just feels awkward because it robs you of the ability to be a good tank.
08/02/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Dumb
Quite interesting how people are using the gcd change to complain about rotations that are 0% different from legion rotations, then.


Yet again it is fun to see when someone spam forums with factually wrong arguments and tries to keep straight face while doing it.
08/02/2018 08:14 PMPosted by Dumb
08/02/2018 02:53 PMPosted by Fenier
You just said, what is the exact point - they don't want you to be able to do everything at once, they want the choice of what you do to be meaningful.
Some people don't believe choices are a thing that should be made in rpgs. They enjoy playing reactionary to every situation and never having to think about what they're doing.


Ok if choices are supposed to be meaningful then why is:

Last Stand, Shield Wall, Spell Reflect, Shield Block and Pummel off the GCD?
Demo Shout, Avatar, Ignore Pain and Intercept on the GCD?

I remember back in the day when many if not all spell interrupts were on the GCD. Choices were extra meaningful.
There was still plenty of choice left on gameplay without putting everything on the gcd, that's a lame excuse.

Also it's a bit hypocritical to say you're putting spells on the global to force meaningful choice, but at the same time you are dumbing down the rotations for every spec in the game and pruning abilities which makes playing the game easier and takes choices away from the player.

The true reason blizzard is putting everything on the gcd is because it makes it easier for bad players to press the right buttons. It's their motivation with all changes they make. They want to make the game easier for newbies and super casuals.

Personally I think reaction time and reacting to things is really fun and what makes video games fun in general. There always has been and still was plenty of choice in your actions without putting everything on the global.
Rotations were definitelty fun in Legion when there were more things off the GCD. My DH feels more boring, less engaging, and simpler. If they made a Legion server (like Vanilla servers) I would choose to play that iteration of the game.

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