The narrative is so bad the media noticed

General Discussion
Prev 1 10 11 12 Next
08/01/2018 09:22 AMPosted by Shrike
Is the purpose of an MMO's story to drive away half it's playerbase?

No.


It's a good thing the story won't do that then.
08/01/2018 09:22 AMPosted by Farora
I'm kind of getting tired of people throwing "bad writing" around like its the new "mary sue".

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean its bad writing people. I'll agree that certain things are questionable but Sylvanas has been a selfish prick who hates hope and the living for a while now.


Ok, here's why it's bad writing. Saurfang has you save civilians 5 minutes before letting Sylvanas burn the tree with hundreds of innocent civilians in it. Just stands there! The same orc who threatened Garrosh back in Northrend that he'd end him if he ever tried to follow the old horde ways and commit atrocities against innocents. And if you don't think that what she did would trigger a reaction from Saurfang let me leave you with this. Even Nathanos hesitated when she said burn the tree. She had to scream it at him to get him to act.

Add to it that her whole agenda is to survive. Do you think this is more or less likely to make the alliance want to see her dead? My money is on more. But she has the Horde to protect her! Does she though? Because after this I can't see most of the races lining up to be a meat shield for her.

Tauren (and High Mountain)? Nope. The druids alone in the tauren race would put a stop to it.

Blood Elves? Nope. They've already faced genocide at the hands of Arthas. They also don't want to endanger themselves due to a crazy warchief. Speaking of crazy warchiefs, they just went though this a few year ago with Garrosh.

Nightborne? nope. They may not like the Night Elves but they recognize that they helped liberate their city. They may not be friends but they wouldn't sanction Sylvanas's actions. Especially not after the demon invasion and occupation.

Trolls? Maybe a few but after Vol'jin was the spark that started the revolution against Garrosh, I think most trolls would see what Sylvanas is becoming and would abandon her.

Goblins? Maybe, but they'd probably be pretty upset about looking all the potential wealth in the World Tree. Still they may help out.

Orcs? Sigh, probably with some dissenters but they'd probably follow her, unless someone like Saurfang disagreed. Which since he's all about honor would...except he didn't.

Forsaken? Yeah, they're evil so they'd follow her. Or she'd kill them.

So if her goal is to stay alive at all costs this was probably the worst way she could go about it. And most of the Horde races, if they didn't stop her (or in Saurfang's case SHOULD have tried to stop her), they would abandon her not too long after that.

So yes, bad writing. When you ignore pre-established lore and character development simply to push a hamfisted plot along, it's bad writing.
08/01/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Pwren
08/01/2018 09:22 AMPosted by Farora
I'm kind of getting tired of people throwing "bad writing" around like its the new "mary sue".

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean its bad writing people. I'll agree that certain things are questionable but Sylvanas has been a selfish prick who hates hope and the living for a while now.


Ok, here's why it's bad writing. Saurfang has you save civilians 5 minutes before letting Sylvanas burn the tree with hundreds of innocent civilians in it. Just stands there! The same orc who threatened Garrosh back in Northrend that he'd end him if he ever tried to follow the old horde ways and commit atrocities against innocents. And if you don't think that what she did would trigger a reaction from Saurfang let me leave you with this. Even Nathanos hesitated when she said burn the tree. She had to scream it at him to get him to act.

Add to it that her whole agenda is to survive. Do you think this is more or less likely to make the alliance want to see her dead? My money is on more. But she has the Horde to protect her! Does she though? Because after this I can't see most of the races lining up to be a meat shield for her.

Tauren (and High Mountain)? Nope. The druids alone in the tauren race would put a stop to it.

Blood Elves? Nope. They've already faced genocide at the hands of Arthas. They also don't want to endanger themselves due to a crazy warchief. Speaking of crazy warchiefs, they just went though this a few year ago with Garrosh.

Nightborne? nope. They may not like the Night Elves but they recognize that they helped liberate their city. They may not be friends but they wouldn't sanction Sylvanas's actions. Especially not after the demon invasion and occupation.

Trolls? Maybe a few but after Vol'jin was the spark that started the revolution against Garrosh, I think most trolls would see what Sylvanas is becoming and would abandon her.

Goblins? Maybe, but they'd probably be pretty upset about looking all the potential wealth in the World Tree. Still they may help out.

Orcs? Sigh, probably with some dissenters but they'd probably follow her, unless someone like Saurfang disagreed. Which since he's all about honor would...except he didn't.

Forsaken? Yeah, they're evil so they'd follow her. Or she'd kill them.

So if her goal is to stay alive at all costs this was probably the worst way she could go about it. And most of the Horde races, if they didn't stop her (or in Saurfang's case SHOULD have tried to stop her), they would abandon her not too long after that.

So yes, bad writing. When you ignore pre-established lore and character development simply to push a hamfisted plot along, it's bad writing.


So your tired of people calling it bad writing? Interesting. So what do you want people to call writing that is illogical, hamfisted, out of character, and just straight up not what Blizzard promised.

Good writing? Negative

So stop straw manning us by claiming we're just using buzzwords because we aren't. The narrative is...

bad
it sucks
It isn't good
its sub par
Thine quality be lackin' breh

Whatever you want us to call it. Please explain how the short made any logical sense and how it maintained the idea behind the xpac that the Horde wasn't going to be cartoonishly evil and it was going to be a morally grey, nuanced, depends on your perspective kinda thing. Because boy am I really excited to fight in a war where my warchieft literally lost her mind and screamed for her army to murder a bunch of non combatants and declared war on hope. Oh right it was because she had a flashback of guitar sliding into frostmourne, got it makes perfect sense now.
08/01/2018 09:20 AMPosted by Dormie
Everyone's an expert in storytelling all of a sudden.


dont need to be a chef to realize the food youre eating is !@#$
08/01/2018 03:06 PMPosted by Twistoffate
08/01/2018 12:57 PMPosted by Ensabanur
...

Then let me retaliate in kind.

But we all know that won't happen because we would wipe your faction out of existence.

It's easy to talk trash when the writers/devs got your back and won't let your precious little Horde face ANY SERIOUS repercussions for the constant atrocities you inflict on the Alliance.


In Lore, The Horde has manhandled Alliance since the beginning.


Which is because of Blizzard's massive Horde Bias. Which has gotten so bad it's causing most of the Alliance playerbase to die off.
Another good article on why this story choice sucks:

https://venturebeat.com/2018/07/31/world-of-warcrafts-lead-up-to-war-of-azeroth-made-me-evil-and-i-dont-like-it/
08/01/2018 12:12 PMPosted by Dominair
08/01/2018 09:22 AMPosted by Shrike
...

What makes a story good or bad? Fulfilling it's purpose.

Is the purpose of an MMO's story to drive away half it's playerbase?

No.

So was this a good story?

No.


Ignorant comment, please provide proof that half the player base was driven away because of this. All I see are a bunch of threats that these whiners will never go through with.


Well, I canceled my sub. And If the rage in two days worth of forum post is any indication, so have others.

I think you have just as much evidence that they didn't as I do that they did.

And I have the benefit of perspective given that I'm one of the angry ones.
08/01/2018 09:17 AMPosted by Sebillee
Congrats blizzard normally the media doesn't notice bad writing in an mmo but you managed it.

Dude, it was EuroGAMER.

In other words, the precise type of media that we would hope would notice these types of events. If they didn't they wouldn't be doing their job.
08/01/2018 07:12 PMPosted by Shrike
08/01/2018 12:12 PMPosted by Dominair
...

Ignorant comment, please provide proof that half the player base was driven away because of this. All I see are a bunch of threats that these whiners will never go through with.


Well, I canceled my sub. And If the rage in two days worth of forum post is any indication, so have others.

I think you have just as much evidence that they didn't as I do that they did.

And I have the benefit of perspective given that I'm one of the angry ones.


I unsubbed as soon as I could

#notmywarchief #notmyhorde
08/01/2018 09:20 AMPosted by Dormie
Everyone's an expert in storytelling all of a sudden.


As a general part of K-12 and above education, we teach children how to read stories, what components make up a story, how stories are told. We have them read and analyze stories - very, very often we have them form critical opinions on stories, state how they feel about them, what they thought about it, what are some things they thought were done well and maybe not done as well. We have them break down different aspects of stories, getting into the metaphors and meaning behind the stories or even what influences provoke its creation. I've seen some teachers even encourage students to come up with different outcomes/endings for the stories or the characters within those stories based on the inherent logic and setting of the story they read.

By all accounts, most people are actually somewhat equipped to be critical of a story. Not everyone is a journalistic critic, no, but I'd say most people can realistically point to a story and determine if they felt it was good or not and even be able to back up those claims.

Not everyone is a storyteller, but you don't have to be one to be able to form a judgment either.
08/01/2018 10:20 AMPosted by Darkonx
08/01/2018 10:07 AMPosted by Infernastorm
...

and yes, if the first chapter of a story is bad, then the story itself is bad. I can't think of a single even mediocre story, much less a good one, that started off with a bad first chapter.


But you don't know that the first chapter is bad, or doesn't make sense, IF you don't read the rest of the story. A story is designed to makes sense in it's entirety.

Could the prepatch story be terrible? Yes it could, but we don't know the whole story yet. Come back in a year and say BFA story was !@#$, if it was I will be your first upvote.


You don't have a clue on the following arc on Beta, right? Cause let me tell you: it's going to get worse.

But don't let me stop you my dear naive Blizz apoligist... you'll see in time cause this is not the first time this team of writers have screwed up. Mark my words.
The problem is that she is now a genocidal maniac, there is no coming back from that for that character. And what's worse, is we the horde player base, nigh on literally pulled the trigger. What will be my redemption. I am no better than a demon blood fueled orc slaughtering Draenei children.
08/01/2018 07:28 PMPosted by Vaknosh
By all accounts, most people are actually somewhat equipped to be critical of a story. Not everyone is a journalistic critic, no, but I'd say most people can realistically point to a story and determine if they felt it was good or not and even be able to back up those claims.


I agree and disagree with you. On one hand, you are correct that we are all capable of deciding what we feel is bad. We aren't, however, equipped to determine what is objectively bad.

If people think it was bad then it is not my place to try to convince them otherwise. However, your feelings do not impact my view on good and bad any more than my feelings impact your view.
08/01/2018 09:25 AMPosted by Yshal
08/01/2018 09:19 AMPosted by Azemane
You just replaced "writing" with "bad writing" without cause. Good writing and average writing can also grab attention depending on what happened.


This was bad writing.

Like horrible fan fic levels of bad writing.


That honor belongs to Cataclysm and WoD imo.
08/01/2018 07:33 PMPosted by Kentaurus
That honor belongs to Cataclysm and WoD imo.


GO'EL!

...
....

Yeah. This has nothing on that.
08/01/2018 02:55 PMPosted by Meritha
08/01/2018 02:53 PMPosted by Laurethelas
if they genuinely hate people who play the Horde that much


The majority of the staff (at least devs) mains Horde so I am gonna say this is a no.
then why is syl the only horde main character from warcraft 3 still alive and part of the horde obviously being set up to die the staff must have some pretty awful self hatred.
08/01/2018 09:20 AMPosted by Dormie
Everyone's an expert in storytelling all of a sudden.


Shame they aren't experts in Irish lore....

Banshees are not nice spirits. they are the spirit of a woman scorned. And will not let it go. And...bring anyone they meet down with them.

they want to see the world burn in the areas they haunt. Its jsut Sylvannas is not bound to limited areas. She can get around to spread hate and discontent really.

08/01/2018 09:20 AMPosted by Dormie
Everyone's an expert in storytelling all of a sudden.
"The media"
08/01/2018 09:17 AMPosted by Sebillee
https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2018-08-01-sylvanas-just-murdered-loads-of-innocent-night-elves-and-now-world-of-warcraft-fans-are-in-crisis

Congrats blizzard normally the media doesn't notice bad writing in an mmo but you managed it. The author is completely right on how you ruined Slyvannas and also astutely pointed out the awful like to dislike ratio on the video.

Your narrative failed the horde.


The like to dislike ratio seems to go right along with the reactions here. Alliance are fine with it because they now have a disgusting enemy to fight. The horde are fractured with half liking it and the others not. 38k-14k sounds about right for a split faction.
Yall are nuts.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum