Mount Personal Loot - Mythic Experience

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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So tonight we killed M Argus for the 12th or 13th time. We had a newer guild mate who got the random mount drop due to personal loot. We had setup a priority of people to get the mount that had been around for the 700+ pulls on M Argus and of course hundreds of other wipes on other Mythic bosses (in Antorus and other raids in Legion with this guild).

This individual promptly left the guild with the mount.

So I know there is nothing that will be done by Blizzard due to these new loot rules. But I'd propose that this is a poor setup to incentivize guildies to stick around and help their other guildies. You could argue that at the end of the day, people should create such a strong environment that people would never want to do this or you could argue that we should have killed the boss earlier to avoid this. All fair points, but regardless, imagine this happening time and time again in the same guild on the first few kills of an end boss. Pretty disheartening.

While perhaps the intent of the system is to lengthen the time it takes guilds to gear up or make sure no one gets screwed over by a loot council, it has its pitfalls. This is one of them. Chaos should be fair and it is, within parameters. If all guildies stayed together in one guild, etc. then it would be fair. Some have spent more time then others though and have been more dedicated, and in general that's what's rewarded in western societies. If you aren't rewarded for hardwork, dedication and performance, then why try in the first place? Just food for thought. :)
You'll want to post this over in the Dungeons, Raids, and Scenarios forum.

The devs don't take suggestions or feedback from the support forums.
Ekon, thanks for the reply, this is less about a suggestion and more about customer service. I don't expect a change, which is, unfortunate.
07/31/2018 10:16 PMPosted by Cutetank
more about customer service.

That is also not on the support forums, unfortunately. That's what a GM can assist with via the support link at the top of the page.

But I would still strongly encourage you add your voice over to that forum. You may not expect a change, but posting it here is a guarantee that things won't change, because the people that need to see it will not.
At least you got rid of the terrible guildmate before the expansion.

It’s a bummer but seems like an edge case; next tier will be more important in the judgement of the new system.
Unfortunately Blizzard has decided that choice is bad and guilds shouldn't be able to reward long term performance and loyalty.

If I were to put on my tinfoil hat I'd almost say it's an attempt to push people into m+ as endgame progression, instead of mythic raids. Way less effort for Blizz as dungeons take way less design time and last a whole expansion, whereas raids are a huge project and only last one major patch. Add in RNG to the extreme and another AP grind and bam, ezmode customer retention.

</tinfoil>
I do not like the changes. It hurt pugs coming together to farm Mythic Gul'dan mounts earlier in the expansion (because they could not master loot unless they were in a guild group) and is now hurting mythic guilds who have Argus on farm.

There are so many stories of groups of 20 coming together and agreeing to farm Mythic Gul'dan for 20 weeks to get everyone the mount. Unfortunately, when you pick up the mount early (unless you were hoping for that titanforged convergence of fates) you lose motivation to farm the kill another 15 to 19 weeks. The group fills with newer people and the group lets the new people know of the priority system and that the new guy is at the end of the list. Earlier in the expansion, these groups could use group loot for some level of protection. Only the intended recipient is to roll need on the mount - everyone else roll greed. When a new person would ninja need roll, additional core members of the team could need roll, as well, as some protection. You still had new guys winning the lottery and walking away with the mount. Now with personal loot across the board, it's more likely to happen.

And it's probably not hurting the world first guilds or world top 100 or 500 guilds - nor the guilds that kill Argus the last few weeks of the expansion (the late comers are just glad to have killed it and people stick around for the chance at a mount). It's the guilds in the middle who killed him with a dozen or so weeks to spare, like yours, and can put it on farm and then have people leave the guild for a better guild or take a break (probably after they won the mount), forcing you to fill in with trial members or new members. You told the trials and the new guys of the priority system. . . .

We've gone from the master looter ninja looter to the anyone in the group can be the ninja looter. There is no perfect solution because humans are involved.
I didn't see a mention of whether or not this person was aware of the mount wait list.
Personally I prefer the personal loot system over master loot. It gives everybody a fair chance at the drops and I'm not a huge fan on priority systems because they are ultimately trust based, in my experience somebody always gets screwed over.

That said, if they're going to have personal loot there needs to be something in place to guarantee people the drops they want after a certain number of wins.

For example, some other games give you tokens when you beat a tough boss and you can use a high number of those tokens to purchase the available gear or mount of your choice.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that the number of tokens required for a mount should be small by any means, the effort should still be required, but at least it would reward the truly dedicated people who in the end don't always get what they deserve out of their effort.

This wouldn't fully solve the problem of people bailing when they get a drop, but it would at least help out the unlucky ones.
08/01/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Sokrates
I didn't see a mention of whether or not this person was aware of the mount wait list.

The fact that he immediately /gquit suggests that just maybe he knew he did something wrong.
Sounds like he didn't know the raid rule you set up or didn't agree to it.

So what does this teach you?

1. Stop trying to tell people what they should do with their loot.
2. Stop bringing in people who are new who haven't earned your trust.
3. Run raids honestly - if you get a bad apple move on - sooner or later you will find good people and they will work with you to achieve goals.
08/01/2018 02:19 PMPosted by Pyri

The fact that he immediately /gquit suggests that just maybe he knew he did something wrong.


Or maybe he was being harassed and/or people were demanding he (she?) hand over the mount despite having no prior notification of any loot list set ups. Imagine being on a trial run and you get it as your personal and everyone else is like, "hand it over bub or else you're out". We don't know both sides of the story.
That mount is worth 10million gold. I can't blame him.

But like has been mentioned, a pitfall in the way they adjusted the loot system.

Sad to see a change like this have these kinds of impacts.
Don't bring in people that are new. That's really the fault of your GM & Officer core for allowing a new member/trial into Mythic Argus. You could have brought them for any other boss but, you brought them knowing they had a chance at looting the mount. This late in the game, my guild is bringing majority players that have the mount so people who have been around have a better chance.
08/01/2018 02:19 PMPosted by Pyri
08/01/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Sokrates
I didn't see a mention of whether or not this person was aware of the mount wait list.

The fact that he immediately /gquit suggests that just maybe he knew he did something wrong.

Or they started harassing him and he bailed. Either way, sorry not sorry but I'd have learned the mount also. RNG is RNG and if it landed in my bag it's mine.

Gone are the days of guilds being able to lock some members out of rewards. It doesn't matter if someone ran the raid 100 times or just once, if they were in there doing their best they have a right to whatever dropped for them. There is no loot mechanic that only lets good stuff drop for someone who has run the content X# of times.
07/31/2018 10:12 PMPosted by Cutetank
We had a newer guild mate who got the random mount drop due to personal loot.


Guess it's their mount then. And they'll do what they want with it
08/01/2018 02:24 PMPosted by Greenstone
Sounds like he didn't know the raid rule you set up or didn't agree to it.

So what does this teach you?

1. Stop trying to tell people what they should do with their loot.
2. Stop bringing in people who are new who haven't earned your trust.
3. Run raids honestly - if you get a bad apple move on - sooner or later you will find good people and they will work with you to achieve goals.


What kindof logic is that? You bring trials in to trial them to figure out if they will fit the guild. Its kindof pointless to trial people on trivial content, and the only good way to do it is on the only remaining difficult content available.

These mounts are selling for 5 million gold on some servers, and they was not a problem before this change. A system was in place before this to handle this sort of thing.

Stop telling people what to do with their loot? So a group that's spent weeks and hours and hours progressing a fight to down Argus, someone who comes in for 4 pulls deserves that mount?

Just an FYI, Shacked dropped for me last night on my priest, and I gave it to the person whom it should have gone to. Guilds have these systems worked out to award attendance, and you subvert all these things by running off with something undeserved.

Also for some reason, the mount drop doesnt show in guild news.
Sounds like he won rng last night. Stop complaining and adjust to the new rules or dont, they're still gonna be the new way of things.
08/01/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Sorrowsong

Gone are the days of guilds being able to lock some members out of rewards. It doesn't matter if someone ran the raid 100 times or just once, if they were in there doing their best they have a right to whatever dropped for them. There is no loot mechanic that only lets good stuff drop for someone who has run the content X# of times.


People say this like it's a good thing, but in the end this will be terrible for guilds as a whole. Not every guild, but plenty. And to what benefit? None at all. It simply means people who show up every night on time, who are reliable, dependable and loyal friends have no defense from !@#$%.

Less choice is always bad. If you wanted a non-master loot guild before, you could just join one. Now if you want a master loot guild to ensure you get rewarded for being a loyal raider, there's nothing in place to facilitate that.
Cool Story bro

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