Mount Personal Loot - Mythic Experience

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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Seems like the Mythic raider 'elitists' here are the only ones that are ethical.
08/01/2018 12:38 PMPosted by Neall
I do not like the changes. It hurt pugs coming together to farm Mythic Gul'dan mounts earlier in the expansion (because they could not master loot unless they were in a guild group) and is now hurting mythic guilds who have Argus on farm.

There are so many stories of groups of 20 coming together and agreeing to farm Mythic Gul'dan for 20 weeks to get everyone the mount. Unfortunately, when you pick up the mount early (unless you were hoping for that titanforged convergence of fates) you lose motivation to farm the kill another 15 to 19 weeks. The group fills with newer people and the group lets the new people know of the priority system and that the new guy is at the end of the list. Earlier in the expansion, these groups could use group loot for some level of protection. Only the intended recipient is to roll need on the mount - everyone else roll greed. When a new person would ninja need roll, additional core members of the team could need roll, as well, as some protection. You still had new guys winning the lottery and walking away with the mount. Now with personal loot across the board, it's more likely to happen.

And it's probably not hurting the world first guilds or world top 100 or 500 guilds - nor the guilds that kill Argus the last few weeks of the expansion (the late comers are just glad to have killed it and people stick around for the chance at a mount). It's the guilds in the middle who killed him with a dozen or so weeks to spare, like yours, and can put it on farm and then have people leave the guild for a better guild or take a break (probably after they won the mount), forcing you to fill in with trial members or new members. You told the trials and the new guys of the priority system. . . .

We've gone from the master looter ninja looter to the anyone in the group can be the ninja looter. There is no perfect solution because humans are involved.


Lol, guy puts in the effort and RNG awards him and somehow that makes him a ninja looter....lulz.
here is the person is questions thread.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766807190?page=1

Looks like he was never told and was a trial *first run with guild*

HE WAS KICKED for not giving it up

Personal loot is personal, he wanted to keep mount i don;t blame him. ESPECIALLY if no one told him the rules.
I understand both sides to this argument that will never go away. I really don't care either way.

However, at this time, I think you either have to approach runs like this either as:

1) It's personal loot - good luck with your RNG.

2) There could be someone who walks out with the loot that we think should go to someone else - and there's nothing we can do about the loot.

Personally, my runs at the Mythic Gul'dan mount were all - good luck with your RNG runs (and no one was disappointed), but I haven't raided current tiers at the Mythic level.

I mean, FFS people, what part of "personal loot" do you not understand?


Just another example of guild corruption among mythic guilds
The guy who got the mount made a post in general. Says he was a trial and not told about the mount waiting list. That you saw it drop and immediately demanded he hand it over. So either you failed to inform him, which is your own fault. Or he's lying and was greedy.
08/01/2018 03:04 PMPosted by Badrouge

I mean, FFS people, what part of "personal loot" do you not understand?


Just another example of guild corruption among mythic guilds


which is why i never joined a guild who used anything but personal loot, only exception was gearing up others through old raids, but even personal loot allows trading so it can be more rewarding to depending on raid comp and person being geared up
08/01/2018 03:05 PMPosted by Ripshadow
The guy who got the mount made a post in general. Says he was a trial and not told about the mount waiting list. That you saw it drop and immediately demanded he hand it over. So either you failed to inform him, which is your own fault. Or he's lying and was greedy.


if he was greedy he wouldn't be posting in general, even though he is doing it on a alt. He is basically asking if he made the right move, i say yes because personal loot and sounds like he was never told, even if he was told it's still personal loot for a reason.
08/01/2018 02:24 PMPosted by Greenstone
1. Stop trying to tell people what they should do with their loot.
2. Stop bringing in people who are new who haven't earned your trust.
3. Run raids honestly - if you get a bad apple move on - sooner or later you will find good people and they will work with you to achieve goals.

1. "their loot" is a perception. It's subjective, not an objective way of describing loot. They could not possibly have gotten the mount without the group. That single drop is the cumulative effort of 20 people, and on top of that, that mount is not being dropped at ~20% chance per person. It's 1 person, guaranteed. Which means you could easily describe that particular drop as a group-effort item. There are objective ways of measuring if someone else is more entitled to a piece of loot over another--and it should be the groups prerogative to define what constitues entitlement. People say "it's personal loot, therefor its personal" and it's not, at least in this case. That's literally just the word used to describe what they call it. They could have named it "Random distribution of group effort" and it be the same thing.

2. Some content cannot be done without a full group. It's reasonable to believe if you cant do it alone, the rewards are, at least in part, a group's reward. Even if a short and temporary social contract.
  • A. It's not so easy to build trust without involving them--unless you want trials to sit in guild for a month but aren't allowed to come to raid...
  • B. Some content cannot be done without a full group
  • .

    3. People leave. No guild is so consistent they raid with the same 20 people for years and years on end--and if there is that one miracle guild out there, good on them. It's not okay that people take loot they're not entitled to, just because the honest people can just try to account for the fact dishonesty exists.
    If you're in a mythic progression guild where gear is of the utmost importance, yea, I can understand why you'd be upset about the changes to master loot/personal loot.

    However, in this case, it was a mount, and there was literally no reason to ask for him to give it up. It's an aesthetic addition to the game, and doesn't affect your guild's ability to perform. If someone wins a mount, you should be happy for them, not demanding they give it to someone in the guild who thinks they deserve it.
    08/01/2018 03:13 PMPosted by Midguard
    They could not possibly have gotten the mount without the group.


    The group couldn't have killed the boss without that player either though. He was a part of the group. And each player in the group has an equal chance to get a reward after the kill. That's RNG.
    There is obviously more to this story then you probably would like to admit.

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766807190?page=1

    Whether or not this post is correct, it makes your original post look awfully suspicious.

    Plus there are several questions involved with this scenario.

    1. Did he know about a loot priority system for the mount?
    2. Did he agree to the mount being given away to another member?
    3. Did you politely ask for him to trade it or did you demand that he trade it?

    Expecting to force people to trade over personal loot is pretty damn silly.
    It's RNG and he/she was lucky enough to get it. You should be happy for the person and say we'll try again next week....
    To paint a picture quickly would be, think about ML, the Ml could easily keep all the gear if he wanted too, or ninja loot anything he deemed worthy of being ninja looted.
    Pl prevents any situation where people can potentially lose out on gear during a full run, thus helping them gear up.
    Even if a players goes into a raid, with ML, they could easily finish the whole raid, receive no gear, while PL allows equal opportunity.
    The responses in this thread are BiS.
    08/01/2018 03:13 PMPosted by Midguard
    1. "their loot" is a perception. It's subjective, not an objective way of describing loot. They could not possibly have gotten the mount without the group.


    Is that loot in the person inventory? If so. That is THEIR loot. Hence the personal loot. Same goes for anyone in the group who wins the RNG for the boss
    08/01/2018 03:29 PMPosted by Bloodmané
    There is obviously more to this story then you probably would like to admit.

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766807190?page=1

    Whether or not this post is correct, it makes your original post look awfully suspicious.
    No it doesn't.

    Any casual glance at that posters history shows them to be a troll, and only a troll, and the forum moderators had to lock that thread because of it.

    They are just trying to make the loot ninja look sympathetic, and troll for forum unrest.

    If a group has a set loot distribution system, and you join them and fail to abide the rules of the group, you are the jerk, especially if that system had someone else working for a long time to obtain that mount and they were next up based on long term effort put in.

    Nothing about Blizzard's complete junk of forced personal loot only system now justifies what that player did to his team mates. He was in the wrong, and was completely unethical, in terms of stealing that mount from the individual that was supposed to get it next.
    If your group had 3 alts capable of farming Argus before the end of the expansion this never would have happened. But you wanted to recruit replacements but refused to give them a chance at the mount. Sorry not sorry. My 225 holy paladin would love to get some gear, and have an extra weekly chance at the red scythe, but no one wants to put any effort into him which is sad cause I know the fight and I know the class. Mythic raider greed tbqh. Bit you in the butt good. Get Argus on farm sooner next expac and make sure everyone in your group gets the mount and this won't be a problem.
    08/01/2018 03:10 PMPosted by Kaelthana
    08/01/2018 03:05 PMPosted by Ripshadow
    The guy who got the mount made a post in general. Says he was a trial and not told about the mount waiting list. That you saw it drop and immediately demanded he hand it over. So either you failed to inform him, which is your own fault. Or he's lying and was greedy.


    if he was greedy he wouldn't be posting in general, even though he is doing it on a alt. He is basically asking if he made the right move, i say yes because personal loot and sounds like he was never told, even if he was told it's still personal loot for a reason.


    If he was greedy and saw the guild post about it, it would be in his interest to come to the forums and pretend hes innocent. Seeing as the guild is public it would not be to hard to find out who his main is as the guild who feels wronged knows who it is.

    It could have even gone down with something like a post on a guild website going over the raiding rules that he had access to and was told to read and never did so the raid leaders thought he knew, yet he didnt actually know.

    In the end, unless you were there and know the background, you will likely never know who is lying. The debate about personal loot always comes down to if you think that guild loyalty and consistent participation is worth rewarding with loot priority.

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