Mount Personal Loot - Mythic Experience

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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08/01/2018 04:10 PMPosted by Amannda
08/01/2018 03:10 PMPosted by Kaelthana
...

if he was greedy he wouldn't be posting in general, even though he is doing it on a alt. He is basically asking if he made the right move, i say yes because personal loot and sounds like he was never told, even if he was told it's still personal loot for a reason.


If he was greedy and saw the guild post about it, it would be in his interest to come to the forums and pretend hes innocent. Seeing as the guild is public it would not be to hard to find out who his main is as the guild who feels wronged knows who it is.

It could have even gone down with something like a post on a guild website going over the raiding rules that he had access to and was told to read and never did so the raid leaders thought he knew, yet he didnt actually know.

In the end, unless you were there and know the background, you will likely never know who is lying. The debate about personal loot always comes down to if you think that guild loyalty and consistent participation is worth rewarding with loot priority.


he does not need to defend himself because he did nothing wrong...........
08/01/2018 04:00 PMPosted by Wraivex
They are just trying to make the loot ninja look sympathetic, and troll for forum unrest.
Except they didn't ninja anything, personal loot placed the mount into their bags. It is their mount.

Maybe the leaders of that guild should get a brain next time and be careful who they invite for Argus instead of being so trusting of everyone in the group.
This is exactly why personal loot was introduced. Ive been in guilds where they master loot or loot council everything and they make choices like

* oh player X is the gm's bf/gf/ bestfriend so they get loot first over anyone else
* GM doesn't like player X beating him on the meters so bis items will go to the gm over player x
* player Y is a trial so that means for the first month they are not entitled to any gear even if they put in the same amount of effort everyone else is.
* random pug in group finder, mount drops, group leader ninja's the loot cause its on masterloot then disbands and kicks everyone.

The person did NOT ninja loot anything. They got the rng, they got the mount, end of story. You just got to move forward and live with the change which is a good change for the majority of people.

Its not like with personal loot you can't trade items once youve got a similar item level equipped. It just means you can't stiff anyone else out of gear/upgrades because you think they dont deserve something.
^ Lol. Join a Mythic guild and you will see thats not true or it will not get far.

Kill a Mythic boss and clear at least heroic even then you may have an idea of how it really is.
They should change the way the mythic mount drops to an item that is a guaranteed drop for everyone in the raid, but you need 20 of them to create the mount. That would have several benefits:

-If someone turns out to be a poor performer or not fitting in with your guild, they can't just get the mount and run, but they still get rewarded for the runs that they were in.
-You don't have people "taking a vacation" after they get their mount, leaving other members high and dry (this also helps keep people subbed longer, which we know Blizzard gets hard for)
-It demonstrates true mastery of the encounter, as it requires twenty kills as opposed to just one
-You can incorporate story into it to make the mount more meaningful (For example, getting twenty of the items off Argus Mythic allows you to tame your own Urzel out in the Argus zone, accompanied by a little RP after the tame of the creature)
08/01/2018 03:29 PMPosted by Fyra
08/01/2018 03:13 PMPosted by Midguard
They could not possibly have gotten the mount without the group.


The group couldn't have killed the boss without that player either though. He was a part of the group. And each player in the group has an equal chance to get a reward after the kill. That's RNG.


No, they definitely could have killed the boss without that player. No one person is irreplaceable, and some deserve reward more than others. You know, like the people who have pulled that boss 100s of times with the guild, established a system and a list and helped others get their mount in a fair and agreed upon manner. Then daddy blizzard comes in, tears that list up, and says the new guy earned his loot over those people because he just so happens to win a forced rng role that goes against the system the guild has made and ultimately those people get screwed by scumbags like this trial. It's ninja looting, pure and simple.

And ultimately, while the trial is a scumbag, it's 100% Blizzard's fault. They should not have forced personal loot in the middle of raid farm.
08/01/2018 05:26 PMPosted by Cjei
And ultimately, while the trial is a scumbag, it's 100% Blizzard's fault. They should not have forced personal loot in the middle of raid farm.
That is not Blizzard's fault. The people running the guild are 100% responsible for what happened. They could've easily prevented it by not bringing a trial to Mythic Argus farm.

Personal loot is not the best system but, this is the fault of the guild, not the person who won the mount, nor Blizzard. I don't see how the person who looted the mount is the scumbag when they were not told the mount rules, were brought in for Mythic Argus farm & then were demanded to hand over the mount when they looted it. Except they won it fair and square. They didn't have to hand over anything. It wasn't the guild's loot.
Wow, I didn’t think this post would get any response. A few things:

- Everyone had been told many times about the mount priority, we’ve been killing the boss with the new loot rules for weeks and before then the order through ML had been communicated as well, in game, discord and comms
- No one raged, at all, were adults in this guild
- Person wasn’t kicked
- I posted this in customer support just for feed back, wasn’t expecting anything to change

It was just some feedback and concern. I didn’t call that person a name on the forums and we didn’t even submit a ticket. It’s personal loot! We get that, I just think it’s poor for these situations. Glad some people posted different ways to address mounts like this.

We could have killed the boss with 19 but this person wasn’t a trial, though newer. They had killed it with us for 2 months before this incident (though not the first kill iirc). Just pointing out the flaws <3
08/01/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Cutetank
Wow, I didn’t think this post would get any response. A few things:

- Everyone had been told many times about the mount priority, we’ve been killing the boss with the new loot rules for weeks and before then the order through ML had been communicated as well, in game, discord and comms
- No one raged, at all, were adults in this guild
- Person wasn’t kicked
- I posted this in customer support just for feed back, wasn’t expecting anything to change

It was just some feedback and concern. I didn’t call that person a name on the forums and we didn’t even submit a ticket. It’s personal loot! We get that, I just think it’s poor for these situations. Glad some people posted different ways to address mounts like this.

We could have killed the boss with 19 but this person wasn’t a trial, though newer. They had killed it with us for 2 months before this incident (though not the first kill iirc). Just pointing out the flaws <3


My understanding is the player was there for 10 previous kills, and that it was going to be off to rolls at certain point, and then that changed abruptly.

How many more before it was his turn? Considering he wasn't there for the first kill how many players have you been bleeding?

Also, if mounts were such a big concern for your guild you should have done what everyone else has done : spilt your group in half and bring half alts and half mains.
wow there sure are a lot of people with no relevant mythic kills who have strong opinions about what it takes to run a successful mythic guild

special lol for the person who doesn't realize it's possible to kill bosses with fewer than 20 people
07/31/2018 10:12 PMPosted by Cutetank
So tonight we killed M Argus for the 12th or 13th time. We had a newer guild mate who got the random mount drop due to personal loot. We had setup a priority of people to get the mount that had been around for the 700+ pulls on M Argus and of course hundreds of other wipes on other Mythic bosses (in Antorus and other raids in Legion with this guild).

This individual promptly left the guild with the mount.

So I know there is nothing that will be done by Blizzard due to these new loot rules. But I'd propose that this is a poor setup to incentivize guildies to stick around and help their other guildies. You could argue that at the end of the day, people should create such a strong environment that people would never want to do this or you could argue that we should have killed the boss earlier to avoid this. All fair points, but regardless, imagine this happening time and time again in the same guild on the first few kills of an end boss. Pretty disheartening.

While perhaps the intent of the system is to lengthen the time it takes guilds to gear up or make sure no one gets screwed over by a loot council, it has its pitfalls. This is one of them. Chaos should be fair and it is, within parameters. If all guildies stayed together in one guild, etc. then it would be fair. Some have spent more time then others though and have been more dedicated, and in general that's what's rewarded in western societies. If you aren't rewarded for hardwork, dedication and performance, then why try in the first place? Just food for thought. :)


I would like to say that is 100% not what happened with the mount I know who this happened to and that’s not how this happened. Frist the person in question wanted to take a break and they told him not to cause he may able to get the mount through pl then when it was taken off he wasent even on the list to get.2nd after they killed the boss he hearth not even checking what he got then went afk for 10 min to help his kid out with something then when he got back people sent the person mean whispers. He didn’t know that he had the mount in the mailbox he didn’t wanna deal with the drama so he left guild plz don’t rage at a good person by a mistake that happened ty
08/01/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Cutetank
We could have killed the boss with 19 but this person wasn’t a trial, though newer. They had killed it with us for 2 months before this incident (though not the first kill iirc). Just pointing out the flaws <3
So this person has been with you for over 2 months and you had a list this late in the expansion? You should've done splits with alts weeks ago instead of forcing people to trade a mount that they fairly looted from the boss, that way everyone could get a shot at their mount. Shame on your guild. I don't blame them for leaving. If I killed a boss that many times and didn't have a fair shot at the mount, i'd bail too.
The problem is that it's silly Blizzard hands out mounts 1 at a time for the final boss of any raid tier.

Honestly if you kill the boss on Mythic you should just get the mount.

Making it so it takes 1 at a time just puts a clock on the guilds that are able to sell the mount sooner and limits the quantity sold which inflates the market value. Everybody wins if they just attach it to the achievement with the title.

If you beat the boss on Mythic you deserve the mount, period.

It's sad when you see Mythic raiders who cleared the content without the mount because they didn't RNG into it before their raid/guild disbanded or they stopped running it for whatever reason.
08/01/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Bawkasaur
So this person has been with you for over 2 months and you had a list this late in the expansion? You should've done splits with alts weeks ago instead of forcing people to trade a mount that they fairly looted from the boss, that way everyone could get a shot at their mount. Shame on your guild. I don't blame them for leaving. If I killed a boss that many times and didn't have a fair shot at the mount, i'd bail too.
This response just bothers me because not every guild is capable of splitting Mythic Antorus.
08/01/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Pyri
wow there sure are a lot of people with no relevant mythic kills who have strong opinions about what it takes to run a successful mythic guild

special lol for the person who doesn't realize it's possible to kill bosses with fewer than 20 people


This is true, but for every person missing, theres a decreased chance for the mount to drop. I think its also down to only eligible players, so 19/20 with 4 people who need the mount you lose like 20% for anyone to get it at all.

08/02/2018 12:51 AMPosted by Seèlah
08/01/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Bawkasaur
So this person has been with you for over 2 months and you had a list this late in the expansion? You should've done splits with alts weeks ago instead of forcing people to trade a mount that they fairly looted from the boss, that way everyone could get a shot at their mount. Shame on your guild. I don't blame them for leaving. If I killed a boss that many times and didn't have a fair shot at the mount, i'd bail too.
This response just bothers me because not every guild is capable of splitting Mythic Antorus.


Well those are the groups who should be happy getting any mounts at all.
08/01/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Pyri
wow there sure are a lot of people with no relevant mythic kills who have strong opinions about what it takes to run a successful mythic guild

special lol for the person who doesn't realize it's possible to kill bosses with fewer than 20 people


That's what always amuses me about the "thank god ML is gone" posts. You get LFR champions and others with no mythic experience defending the removal of guild ML as if it ever had any effect on them. Meanwhile just about everyone who has ever gotten a Cutting Edge achievement are universally against the loss of ML because they know the amount of effort (both individual and collective) that goes into clearing mythic raids.
there is only 2 more weeks of the mount being a 100% drop with a 20 man raid.

If you have new people comming in during this time while your main roster does not have the mount you should expect this behaviour. I know the actual intent of this post is to try and "ward" other mythic guilds of this player, but this is the last 2 weeks this will ever be an issue.

Going forward your going to have to drop the past and accept this is the rule of law for better or for worse (I do think this is a worse loot system for mythic specifically) but thats an argument to be had directly with the game Devs and not with your guild roster.
08/02/2018 05:53 AMPosted by Fancypantsz
08/01/2018 07:14 PMPosted by Pyri
wow there sure are a lot of people with no relevant mythic kills who have strong opinions about what it takes to run a successful mythic guild

special lol for the person who doesn't realize it's possible to kill bosses with fewer than 20 people


That's what always amuses me about the "thank god ML is gone" posts. You get LFR champions and others with no mythic experience defending the removal of guild ML as if it ever had any effect on them. Meanwhile just about everyone who has ever gotten a Cutting Edge achievement are universally against the loss of ML because they know the amount of effort (both individual and collective) that goes into clearing mythic raids.


You’ve drank the cool-aid.

Min / Maxing loot drops for set bonuses and secondary priorities won’t make you fly through mythic 30% faster than PL, if you think so you’re dreaming.

If you need to buy loyalty with preferential loot treatment then that’s on you for being in one of those mythic groups.

Obviously there was a big problem with the way guild we’re treating loot and treating recruits. Half of the wanna-be top 10 mythic people of these forums are exactly who blizz was targeting with these changes, people who abused and exploited other players and continually cycled recruits who had zero chance of making personal progression.

You made your bed and now you have to sleep in it.

Good news for you is that PL is fine and removing the drama makes for a friendlier team... if you don’t go and ruin it by harshly enforcing some weird ‘must trade everything to the loot council’ crap in a desperate attempt to live in the past.
Actually I don't mind PL for gear. Slightly annoying, but whatever. Where I want ML is the mounts off the end boss. If you think a new recruit who gets the mount his first week in the guild before a dozen others that have hundreds and hundreds of pulls over weeks or months is a scenario that's nothing to worry about, then clearly you aren't the kind of raider who actually has a shot at these mounts.

I don't expect people who have never gotten a single Cutting Edge to understand why losing ML is so incredibly frustrating.

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