Dear Devs: Re: Pet Charms

General Discussion
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08/01/2018 01:53 PMPosted by Menard
08/01/2018 01:51 PMPosted by Fearoneoone
OP had a well thought out, and constructive post. Surely the blue response was going to be a good one!

Boy was I wrong.

Not everyone uses Twitter, their biased political hitman practices alienate a huge portion of the country.

Beta forums? Why would one go there? More of the same not listening.


I never go to the beta forums because I’m never in any betas. I honestly thought you had to have a beta account to go there.
And if you don't want to have spoilers, you wouldn't go there either. There's a reason people avoid those forums.
Beta forums are not the place to communicate changes to the whole playerbase. That's why you sent players emails to tell what was changing.

I was aware of the change as I follow 3rd party sites, but that's not the case for most people.

The funny thing is that, when it's convenient, blue will post saying that not everyone posts/uses the forums, that those that use/read are a vocal minority....

Like a fellow player posted above, it's just better to admit you messed up.
I recommend the placement of a temporary legacy vendor to make the last time purchases possible. No need to roll the current vendors back to the previous version. Just place a new (visiting) vendor selling items with old currency in the Dalaran pet shop or SW/Org Pet Battle Master and let people do the purchases for next two weeks.
08/01/2018 01:29 PMPosted by Ythisens
Hey guys! Just some clarification that this was a communicated change and we posted about this on the beta forums.

Here is a link to the post on it when we made that change on the beta and some follow up from Muffinus on some philosophy behind it:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762158027?page=5#post-82
05/24/2018 04:52 PMPosted by Muffinus
What this means for you: always-useful items will eventually move to the new currency, so you don't feel obligated to do older content. If you still need pets from older content, they are purchasable with that content's charms.


This was something that was communicated on the forums and was repeated by lots of fan sites and individuals on social media as well as our own accounts leading up to the 8.0 patch.
https://twitter.com/warcraftdevs/status/999801175212933120?lang=en

However, you're right it wasn't in the patch notes and we do apologize for that as it should've been in there too and I'll make that a note in the future that we shouldn't miss things like that. In the mean time you can still use the Shiny Pet Charms to buy the existing pets and toys, and the new Pet Charms will be available once we get into BfA.


Beta forum posts for things that effect Live are not acceptable notice.

The Twitter post looks like it's mentioning things that are new/changing in BFA - not the Live server. Very unclear unless you dig through the comments. Many people don't.

3rd party sites aren't acceptable notice.

At the very least this should have been in the patch notes.
At best this should have been communicated in the "What to do before 8.0" email/post
08/01/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Vixie
As a long time pet collector, I stop by Pet Battle Forum once in awhile. I'm sure there were threads about the pet charms for months. There were also reminder threads on GD before the patch. I didn't read beta forums but I found out anyway.

If pet battling is your fave part of WoW, you'd be on warcraftpets and reading things all the time.

Are you an employee or something? The idea that "you weren't serious about pet battling because you don't spend many hours a week scouring the web for stealth nerfs, so it's okay to sneak in one that destroys everything you saved up, you deserve it" just looks really really bad for you.

I usually read patch notes (if at all) after the patch is applied to see what they did. That wouldn't have helped me at all with this change anyway.

Understand the frustration and all but seriously, if you pet battle at all, you'll have upgrade pieces stored (my bank alt has gobs of the One-up coins for all types of pets) and you'll get new ones when the xpac launches in 2 weeks.

This is not something to get outraged over.

Make up some more excuses for them. Go on.

The entire purpose of the currency changeover was to make sure that people who do pet battles will have to upgrade to BfA if they want to continue to have access to the supplies they have always been able to buy with pet charms.

I had thousands of pet charms, which I was able to use in the days before the prepatch, because I knew.

Claiming that mention in the beta forum is reasonable and adequate is the lamest excuse I have ever seen.
I am on the forums all the time and I never heard about this change until after it happened and I went to upgrade a pet and couldn't. I agree, OP. It was poorly communicated and implemented and the change should not have even happened until we were actually able to obtain the new charms.
08/01/2018 01:55 PMPosted by Cmdrtaco
Holy cow!

Apparently the devs think they communicated the change sufficiently, but it was obviously not well enough for the casual player.

I remember getting direct information from Blizzard about things to do before the pre-patch went live. Nowhere in that communication or the "things to do before the pre-patch" news post (https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/21921944/tips-to-complete-your-legion-checklist) were pet charms mentioned.

I think the OP is absolutely correct in complaining about a significant change that was not communicated via the news channel, but instead required you to monitor the forums, twitter feed, and fan sites. There are announcements in the Battle.Net program, the game itself, and AN EMAIL WAS SENT TO ME TELLING ME WHAT WAS GOING AWAY. Yet none of those channels mentioned the pet charms.

What we have here is a situation where the PTB did not think the pet charm changes were important enough to publicize at that level.

I disagree.


It really comes down to a number of people (including some blizzard employees) just don't feel pet battles is 'important' content. If this change in currency was one that affected raiders I am pretty sure it would have been included in that email you mention.
this all makes me so sad, i feel like the devs intentionally pushed this change during 8.0 to punish the few people who tried to stockpile charms for the future and instead are punishing the massive player base who would have otherwise used this month of pre-patch to catch up on their battle pet collection and pet achievements.. really disheartening for achievement hunters
To be honest, I knew this change was coming.

...and on the very last day I had a chance to spend my charms, I didn't log in. At all. I was just not feeling well. Honestly, I'm not "doing well" in general. I don't need to hear any "you snooze, you lose! it's your own fault!" crap. I'm stuck with a bunch of charms that I don't have any use for. That's not really Blizzard's fault, but it doesn't change my reality.

But now I'm seeing it's going to be 2 weeks before we can even acquire the new type of charm, and I'm wondering why they can't just allow us to spend our old charms, as if they were a current currency (BECAUSE THEY ARE LITERALLY A CURRENT CURRENCY) until the new currency goes live? Why would that be so damn bad?

yeah, I support a hot-fix to this. Why shouldn't I be able to spend the tokens I earned?
08/01/2018 01:29 PMPosted by Ythisens
Hey guys! Just some clarification that this was a communicated change and we posted about this on the beta forums.


I don't think you read the OP. They said they did not check the Beta forums because they were not in the Beta, so why would they? And it's very arbitrary to need to check the beta forums for announcements.

Posted by Muffinus
What this means for you: always-useful items will eventually move to the new currency, so you don't feel obligated to do older content. If you still need pets from older content, they are purchasable with that content's charms.


Translation: we don't want you to be able to use all those charms you farmed up during the huge lapse in content, so we're going to make the new pet battle items require a DIFFERENT pet charm so you don't breeze through the new content!

The "so you don't feel obligated to do older content" argument doesn't fly here because pet battles are an OPTIONAL part of the game which often requires the player to do older content anyway.

I mean if that was the case why did they add battle pets and pet achievements for older instances? It's older content!

Not that I mind, I like that they did, just it shows how ignorant this argument is. And from a dev no less.

08/01/2018 01:29 PMPosted by Ythisens
However, you're right it wasn't in the patch notes and we do apologize for that as it should've been in there too and I'll make that a note in the future that we shouldn't miss things like that. In the mean time you can still use the Shiny Pet Charms to buy the existing pets and toys, and the new Pet Charms will be available once we get into BfA.


Which was also not OP's point =/

They cannot buy the stuff they actually wanted to use their farmed stones for. IMO, this should be reverted until BFA actually drops OR it could be a conversion like for every 2 old stones you get 1 new one.
I think it's hilarious how whenever they want to downplay a large customer response to something on the forums, they come out with the old line "only a very small number of players view and post on the forums, and so your viewpoints probably aren't representative of all players".

But when one of those "non forum going players" they love to hold up as an example has a bad experience, and has to resort to coming here for a solution, they are told that they should've just read the beta forums.. an even SMALLER sub-community of the overall forum population.

Can't have it both ways, Blues.
The patch notes, that are usually posted during the patch process when the game isn't playable, would be too late.
At least the notice wasn't on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.'
08/01/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Vixie
08/01/2018 02:00 PMPosted by Torvald
3. Do this in a timely fashion. BFA releases in 2'ish weeks.


Do you really think they can reprogram the game for this non-issue within 2 weeks while they're busting their faces to get the xpac launched? Really?


"reprogram the game" = put an item on a vendor that was there already a few weeks ago. Don't be melodramatic about it. It's a minor suggested fix for a minor problem. My point there was that solutions to things like this only have a small window time-frame during which they can be fixed (if they want to stick with Muffinus's philosophy post, which I'm assuming they do - if they wanted to abandon his philosophy, they could just reset things to how they were permanently, but that seems like a less reasonable suggestion to make to Blizzard).

08/01/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Vixie
Understand the frustration and all but seriously, if you pet battle at all, you'll have upgrade pieces stored (my bank alt has gobs of the One-up coins for all types of pets) and you'll get new ones when the xpac launches in 2 weeks.


"If you pet battle at all"? Ridiculous statement. Quite obviously many people built up charms because it was a natural result of sending out missions if you favored pet charm missions. Many people don't immediately spend their currencies and wait till they know for sure what pets they want to use stones on, in part because (as you referenced yourself) having the stones without knowing what you will use it on eats up more inventory (hence your use of bank alts).

08/01/2018 02:04 PMPosted by Vixie
This is not something to get outraged over.


No, it's something to get annoyed over, and register an average complaint about. If you think this is an "outraged" post, then assessing complaints is clearly not your strong suit.
Not sure what more they can do to get the word out. Any player who plays usually keeps up with either the forums, wowhead or MMO-Champion.

People should know who have played a while that usually when a new patch, xpac or prepatch comes out there will be changes and they SHOULD at least attempt to find out the changes or post something asking.

What other way would you like them to communicate these changes?
08/01/2018 01:55 PMPosted by Cmdrtaco
Holy cow!

Apparently the devs think they communicated the change sufficiently, but it was obviously not well enough for the casual player.


This kinda goes to the heart of the matter; if someone is a casual pet battler, then the impact of this is minimal. For people that are really into pet collecting like me (though I don't bother with the pvp side much anymore), we knew about this for months. It was discussed everywhere, e.g. warcraftpets.com, Xu-Fu's Strategy site, that actual pet battling enthusiasts gather.

Even wowhead had a large to-do about it;

http://www.wowhead.com/news=284616/battle-pet-currency-changes-in-battle-for-azeroth-polished-pet-charm
I particularly cringe when I'm told to obtain information on this game not from Blizzard's forums but from Twitter.
Can't blame you for being irritated, OP. I was in beta and I do roam MMO-Champion and WoWhead multiple times daily, but I was unaware the mage tower appearances were going away with the patch. I thought I had time between the patch and BfA's launch to get the mage tower appearances. Nope. That makes me feel punished for working and filling in for my coworkers who were taking off. I was being nice filling in for them, but now I feel like I should have just told my boss nope. Since March, my schedule has been screwed up due to filling in for coworkers taking off for medical reasons and vacation. My job is not something we can just arbitrarily take days off whenever we want and it's not something where if a coworker is out for a day we're fine. I work with criminal offenders. If someone's off, someone HAS to pick up the slack or trouble can ensue. Going a day without someone picking up the slack results in chaos for everyone. It was only just last month that I finally took a day off for myself and got my regular schedule back to finally catch up in WoW ... except Blizzard removed the mage tower appearances the week before I got my day off screwing any reason for me even taking the day off. Yay, I get punished for working and trying to help keep my community safe.

But hey, this isn't new. Blizzard hasn't released a blog post regarding what gets removed with the pre-patch and the expansion since WotLK when they removed a whole bunch of stuff due to Cata's impending release. Blizzard enjoys punishing players who are slow and work long hours. I honestly wish Blizzard would stop removing things from the game because every time something is removed, that is removed content and one less reason to play. Even shifting things around on vendors gets irritating. With the pet charms, why not just have the current ones be able to buy the stones, etc but at a higher cost while letting the new ones buy the same stones for cheaper? Or allow for the original pet charms to be traded in for gold so they're just not wasted for those of us that have no need for them. I remember when BG tokens were removed in favor of honor. Rather than punch us in the face and give us the middle finger, Blizzard allowed us to trade our tokens in for honor tokens. What happened to THAT Blizzard? I've been playing this game for over 10 years, but it feels like communication has gone down hill since Cata's release. Now we're not even being notified of simple things like what' being removed when. We're always redirected to another website run by fans.

Begs the question where this "improved communication" is supposed to be, though. Blizzard said back in WoD they would communicate with us better but it still seems to be as terrible as it was back then. Seems when Blizzard's communication does improve, it's for a very short period usually related to a patch issue or something like now when the player base is pissed. Then it goes the way of the dodo shortly after until the next uproar. If Blizzard had been asking for our opinions all these years, I'm sure the fan base wouldn't be so irate at times. When you aren't asking for opinions and expect us to direct our own conversations, it's no wonder many believe we aren't being listened to. That's especially true if something gets implemented or removed that cause people to get pissed and yet nothing changes. No discussion of WHY it was done and why it's not being changed. Just a middle finger and telling us to deal with it or leave.
Not sure what more they can do to get the word out. Any player who plays usually keeps up with either the forums, wowhead or MMO-Champion.

People should know who have played a while that usually when a new patch, xpac or prepatch comes out there will be changes and they SHOULD at least attempt to find out the changes or post something asking.

What other way would you like them to communicate these changes?


On their own forums maybe? On the launcher? In game email? Really any of those would have been nice. You should not have to go to a third party site to get basic game changing news.

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