Dear Devs: Re: Pet Charms

General Discussion
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My husband read the OP and brought it to my attention. He said he almost thought that I wrote it! It is exactly what I said when I found out (too late) that I had saved 900+ pet charms and now they are essentially useless to me. I cannot get the stones, and that is the one thing I used them for. I don't need/want more level one pets, or toys. I just want to spend the charms that I collected, for the purpose that I was collecting them. Simple as that.

I don't play much anymore, and pets were a great way for me to get in some quick game play, scratch that "completionist itch" and it provided some stress relief after long days at work. I was seriously triggered at this change! Laugh and mock if you will, but this was BS, and NOT communicated well to the casual player, and I am disappointed in the blue post response. I too read the "things to do before BFA", and this wasn't mentioned. I would have been all over spending them! I didn't even want to log in for days after the patch because I saw red every time I opened my bags, still do...

Thank you OP for articulating things much better than I could!
08/01/2018 06:10 PMPosted by Rdord
The amount of Blizzard shilling in this thread is reaching russian bot levels.


Let's be fair to Russian bots here. Even they have limits for how far they'll white knight in order to keep their cover plausible. The people defending this and slamming OP for not knowing this was coming look incredibly ridiculous (and to be fair, they're a tiny minority of the people who responded to the thread).

How do you know something has been handled unreasonably by the developers? Well, the question for that isn't, "Could the player have done SOMETHING more." Of course they could. Usually most people could do something more. The right question to determine reasonableness for a planned change players should know about is, "What do you think WILL happen?"

If the answer is, "the playerbase will generally know because our announcement mechanisms are hard to miss," then they've done good. If the answer is, "A lot of people will be taken by surprise except for pet battle super fans and a handful of people or their friends who lucked into checking into obscure forum posts and 3rd party websites at the right time" then they've done bad. It doesn't absolve the problem if some chunk of players manage to find out if another huge chunk that should have known and would have seen it had it been on something like the launcher didn't find out.

It's pretty clear which side of the line this event falls under.
I don't understand the "head start" assumption. If the new pets and items require new charms that are not obtainable until bfa, and the old upgrade stones still work on the new pets, wouldn't people who actually read the post about this change get benefitted while the casual players fall into you-snooze-you-lose kinda situation?

I still don't see what's wrong with letting people purchase useful items and old pets with the old pet charms while having another vendor to sell useful items and the new pets that uses new charms?
08/01/2018 01:29 PMPosted by Ythisens
Hey guys! Just some clarification that this was a communicated change and we posted about this on the beta forums.

Here is a link to the post on it when we made that change on the beta and some follow up from Muffinus on some philosophy behind it:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762158027?page=5#post-82
05/24/2018 04:52 PMPosted by Muffinus
What this means for you: always-useful items will eventually move to the new currency, so you don't feel obligated to do older content. If you still need pets from older content, they are purchasable with that content's charms.


This was something that was communicated on the forums and was repeated by lots of fan sites and individuals on social media as well as our own accounts leading up to the 8.0 patch.
https://twitter.com/warcraftdevs/status/999801175212933120?lang=en

However, you're right it wasn't in the patch notes and we do apologize for that as it should've been in there too and I'll make that a note in the future that we shouldn't miss things like that. In the mean time you can still use the Shiny Pet Charms to buy the existing pets and toys, and the new Pet Charms will be available once we get into BfA.


You folks really gotta stop relying on WoWhead to get your news out to people. The bits and bobs that matter are scattered all over the place and you can't expect players to constantly check several websites and several subforums for information and updates. That is what the website is for.

A lot of stuff is always missing from the patch notes and there really is no excuse for you lot to just make it as complete as possible. It's something that has always bothered me on both a customer and player level.

As for the pet charms - it was silly for you folks to prevent buying upgrade stones during prepatch when most people are gonna be doing alts and leveling pets. This change should have waited until the launch of BFA. It's like "Hey guys, we know you'll be doing more pet battles during this prepatch period before BFA launches so let us hamstring you."

Accident or not, it shows a massive disconnect from designers to player experience. Gotta work on that, folks!
08/01/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Chrisski
Most anyone who is into Battlepets follows along on battle pet sites, and this was listed there at least a month if not 2 before the change. This has almost always been a thing, where something we can stockpile is changed in the next expansion, otherwise any of us who do have lots of the item have an unfair advantage going into the next one. Before I spent all my charms about 3 weeks ago, I had enough to get almost every new item coming out!

As a side note, you CAN still buy anything that is tied to Legion or older that cost charms, with those same charms (stones of course obviously being an exception since that is tied w/ every expansion).

Something I learned long ago the hard way that may help, there is no point in stockpiling, if we want something, like stones, there is 0 reason to hold onto the items needed to purchase them, unless they were being held in hope to get new items.

These people were not "stockpiling" anything. They had no reason to believe that everything they would want to purchase would be made unavailable, irrespective of your claims that the junk can still be bought.

And you people keep making the claim that if people would only stop playing the game and instead spend all their time cruising obscure websites looking for notification of stealth nerfs that were intended to screw over pet battlers. That people who play the game should fully expect to have all the value of their stuff stolen from them, just because you can get away with it.

Yeah, you sound like an employee trying to convince us that something your bosses did that was very morally gray was somehow deserved by your victims.
08/01/2018 05:56 PMPosted by Rhorle
08/01/2018 05:47 PMPosted by Mahatma
That said, pet battles are unique in that all content is viable content once you start facing teams of level 25 pets. Pet battles are the one part of the game where the content actually expands. Other types of content just get replaced.


They have introduced scaling in pet battle world quests in BfA. So you won't always need a team of level 25 pets to do the BfA pet content.

What I meant by that, is that the leveling teams (in Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms) do stop being as viable as the rest of the pet battles. Though since all pet battle quests themselves scale, even those are not quite as non-viable as some other types of out leveled content.
Posted by Chrisski Most anyone who is into Battlepets follows along on battle pet sites, and this was listed there at least a month if not 2 before the change. This has almost always been a thing, where something we can stockpile is changed in the next expansion, otherwise any of us who do have lots of the item have an unfair advantage going into the next one. Before I spent all my charms about 3 weeks ago, I had enough to get almost every new item coming out!
As a side note, you CAN still buy anything that is tied to Legion or older that cost charms, with those same charms (stones of course obviously being an exception since that is tied w/ every expansion).

Something I learned long ago the hard way that may help, there is no point in stockpiling, if we want something, like stones, there is 0 reason to hold onto the items needed to purchase them, unless they were being held in hope to get new items.


So - I've been busy in real life for a while. I don't log in to the pet sites - as a matter of fact, I logged in to Warcraft pets yesterday.....and I am an avid pet collector. I am in the top 50 on my server - at one time, I was in the top 10. You fail at this logic - I'm sorry - but a lot of us - are not always on these forums.
08/01/2018 06:46 PMPosted by Tiresias
08/01/2018 06:25 PMPosted by Jimindar
I think it is a bit remiss to not be able to acquire the rare upgrade stone in the interim. :/

Finally got an undead valkyr and it is just sitting there at L25 grey with nothing to do.


There is a pet battle quest up on the Broken Shore for a rare upgrade stone, today.

Excellent, ty!
Blizzard: 3rd party sites are unofficial and nothing is concrete unless you hear it directly from us!

Also Blizzard: Make sure you check third party sites to receive game changing information and be up to date on unannounced info!

And for those that want to say "well there was that ONE post in the beta forums..", Guess what, that's the beta forums, and BFA is not here yet. We are still live in Legion.
08/01/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Menard
My favorite part about this forum exchange I’m reading is that some people are blaming OP and saying it’s customer ignorance.

OP may not be totally 100% linked into WoW like some. There are many WoW players who don’t ever go to fan sites or read any external articles related to the game. That is not the consumers fault. That is a blizzard issue. Why? Because people quit over this. If you as a company link someone to a fan site with regards to questions your consumers ask about your product, that’s an issue. OP shouldn’t have to check WoWhead or MMO Champ to get their game updates.

Sure, some of you will say, “let them go, they were dumb.” But at the end of the day, they’re one less log in and in this case, one less person spending $10 on a new pet or $20 exc exc. I don’t pet battle and I’m still waiting for that catch up PVP stuff I read about on the launcher.

End of day this should have been communicated better. What’s done is done and it most likely was an oversight and totally not intended. Let’s be honest, sometimes Blizzard plays favorites with certain game modes. :P

(Side note, why is it always gnomes who do pet battles? Don’t the pets eat the gnomes?)
Let's be real here. Somebody with 21,000 achievement points isn't going to just up and quit.
08/01/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Toccata
Posted by Chrisski Most anyone who is into Battlepets follows along on battle pet sites, and this was listed there at least a month if not 2 before the change. This has almost always been a thing, where something we can stockpile is changed in the next expansion, otherwise any of us who do have lots of the item have an unfair advantage going into the next one. Before I spent all my charms about 3 weeks ago, I had enough to get almost every new item coming out!
As a side note, you CAN still buy anything that is tied to Legion or older that cost charms, with those same charms (stones of course obviously being an exception since that is tied w/ every expansion).

Something I learned long ago the hard way that may help, there is no point in stockpiling, if we want something, like stones, there is 0 reason to hold onto the items needed to purchase them, unless they were being held in hope to get new items.


So - I've been busy in real life for a while. I don't log in to the pet sites - as a matter of fact, I logged in to Warcraft pets yesterday.....and I am an avid pet collector. I am in the top 50 on my server - at one time, I was in the top 10. You fail at this logic - I'm sorry - but a lot of us - are not always on these forums.


Yours is a good point worth reiterating for some people. Pet battling is an activity people are able to jump into and out of without the same sense of "falling behind" that you get with ilvls and gear.

The guy you quoted saying "most anyone" who is into Battle pets follow those sites is just flat out wrong. Pet battles are an extremely casual-friendly activity, by which I mean, the broad playerbase is able to easily jump into it and do it in small bursts, or they can collect and grind heavily without delving into those resources at all. And even many who did check those places out might only do it once or twice in a year if they're happening to deal with some particular battle or team that's giving them a lot of trouble and they need advise.

I'm not saying sites like that aren't good and don't serve an audience, but the people who actually follow those sites, and read the pet battle forum, are a sliver of the total amount of people who pet battle. They are a niche of a niche. (Not to mention that pet charms were a reward from doing an independent activity in this game which people could engage in while taking a break from pet battling - order hall missions).
08/01/2018 07:59 PMPosted by Torvald
08/01/2018 06:10 PMPosted by Rdord
The amount of Blizzard shilling in this thread is reaching russian bot levels.


Let's be fair to Russian bots here. Even they have limits for how far they'll white knight in order to keep their cover plausible. The people defending this and slamming OP for not knowing this was coming look incredibly ridiculous (and to be fair, they're a tiny minority of the people who responded to the thread).

How do you know something has been handled unreasonably by the developers? Well, the question for that isn't, "Could the player have done SOMETHING more." Of course they could. Usually most people could do something more. The right question to determine reasonableness for a planned change players should know about is, "What do you think WILL happen?"

If the answer is, "the playerbase will generally know because our announcement mechanisms are hard to miss," then they've done good. If the answer is, "A lot of people will be taken by surprise except for pet battle super fans and a handful of people or their friends who lucked into checking into obscure forum posts and 3rd party websites at the right time" then they've done bad. It doesn't absolve the problem if some chunk of players manage to find out if another huge chunk that should have known and would have seen it had it been on something like the launcher didn't find out.

It's pretty clear which side of the line this event falls under.

The burden is on Blizzard to communicate all in-game changes fully and clearly and in a manner and place reasonably calculated to communicate these changes to players. In my experience, more players come to the forums for in-game information than any other website.

Blizzard has a checkered history of disclosing changes; some omissions are probably accidental; some more suspect (ilevel scaling, I'm looking at YOU). Stealth nerfs, significant changes undisclosed in patch notes or in any notices on Blizzard's sites, have even become more frequent over the years.

Patch notes are often inaccurate or incomplete and therefore cannot be relied upon for the total picture.

Perhaps someone or some persons need to review a checklist of changes made and, to make sure that these are accurately disclosed.

The forum could use a new forum category: In game changes!

Players should neither be required nor relied upon to gather their information about the game from any source other than Blizzard, including its sale/advertising page; news (in launcher); patch notes and, most significantly, these forums.

If Blizzard elects also to make this information available on third party sites, that's certainly Blizzard's prerogative. But start here at home, please.
08/01/2018 09:09 PMPosted by Tsuria
08/01/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Menard
My favorite part about this forum exchange I’m reading is that some people are blaming OP and saying it’s customer ignorance.

OP may not be totally 100% linked into WoW like some. There are many WoW players who don’t ever go to fan sites or read any external articles related to the game. That is not the consumers fault. That is a blizzard issue. Why? Because people quit over this. If you as a company link someone to a fan site with regards to questions your consumers ask about your product, that’s an issue. OP shouldn’t have to check WoWhead or MMO Champ to get their game updates.

Sure, some of you will say, “let them go, they were dumb.” But at the end of the day, they’re one less log in and in this case, one less person spending $10 on a new pet or $20 exc exc. I don’t pet battle and I’m still waiting for that catch up PVP stuff I read about on the launcher.

End of day this should have been communicated better. What’s done is done and it most likely was an oversight and totally not intended. Let’s be honest, sometimes Blizzard plays favorites with certain game modes. :P

(Side note, why is it always gnomes who do pet battles? Don’t the pets eat the gnomes?)
Let's be real here. Somebody with 21,000 achievement points isn't going to just up and quit.

Many very accomplished players left in May 2015 and haven't returned, so I think you will find your assumption is incorrect.
There have been a number of changes made in the game that have not been clearly communicated to the players. I'm not just talking about class and spec changes - which we obviously assume will happen and keep an eye out for it - but changes to side items that are not obvious and spring out of nowhere.

The change of the level requirement for Exotic pest tames/use is a prime example. Prior to the patch it was Level 10, now it is level 65 and I had NO idea at all that was going to happen. How would I even know to look for it? So I have a low level hunter who tamed the spirit fox from Darkshore prior to the patch and is now unable to even call it up until he reaches level 65! Where is the logic in this to start with - and why are such changes being made with little or no heads up on them???

There needs to be some sort of link provided on our task bar that can highlight when changes are going to be made, that we can click to read up on what will be happening. Something clear and easy to read. And when new changes are made, it will again highlight until we click on it again. Nothing distracting, but a simple change in colour would be sufficient.

You have altered the UI to make more space - add a button to make life less confusing for the players.
I don't think it would have been unreasonable to keep the old vendors and currency and just have the older quests reward the new shiny currency.

Removing people's ability to buy things with a token system is just as unideal as letting people farm a token beforehand and sitting on it for a benefit after something like a patch.
This is starting to sound like Justice and Valor to me lol.
Shocking, Blizz relying upon 3rd party websites in order to relay information. "But we put it in the Beta forum!" Yeah should probably have a blue feed across the whole forum, I think the New overwatch forums have something like this but hey this billion dollar company cannot handle upgrading their sites.
If blizz doesn't want to use their game launcher to display news, I'd like to suggest they utilize their loading screen tips to include pertinent and up-to-date tips, say like, letting people know that pet charms are turning into Shiny Pet Charms and can no longer be used to purchase various pet items.

I don't really need to be told things like, "your character can eat and drink at the same time"

or my personal favorite, "Smile early and often!"

/smh
OP is clueless. It was all in patch notes, mmo champion and lots of YouTube wow content creators videos for a long time.

L2Research bra.
08/02/2018 12:33 AMPosted by Samael
OP is clueless. It was all in patch notes, mmo champion and lots of YouTube wow content creators videos for a long time.

L2Research bra.


Except... it wasn't. There's a blue post IN THIS THREAD saying it wasn't in the patch notes.

Learn to read.

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