We need PvP Gear to be BIS for PvP.

War Mode and World PvP
1 2 3 7 Next
Please do not repeat the same mistake as Legion's WPvP. Warmode is an amazing system, but its participation will drastically fall if there're a few Gods walking around with high ilvls and elite min/maxed customization because they do high-tier PvE.

PvPers do not want to PvE to supplement their ilvl, secondary stats, trinkets, item effects, Azerite powers, etc.

Both Warmode and Instanced PvP should favor players in full PvP gear.

WOD was the best PvP system yet, only really injured by a severe barrier to entry (that could have been resolved with a higher ilvl floor in instanced PvP.) Removing PvP gear has been a failed system that's made PvP rewards feel behind the rest of the game, especially if you don't push high rating.

I'd suggest bringing back WoD's dual-ilvl gear, or at least scaling everyone to the same ilvl in PvP, with bonuses for wearing PvP gear in every slot.
1000% agreed.

The WoD and MoP models had some outliers in terms of gear and imbalance (toys, legendary ring, gimmicks, etc.), but Legion's model of "PvE or die" needs to be left behind in favor of PvP gear being BiS for PvP, period. No exceptions.

I have never enjoyed PvE, and this entire expansion has made me feel as though I was a second class citizen in what was once my own venue (WPvP).

Don't make me PvE so I can PvP.
I think they're doing something like this, with a flat 75% nerf to -all- PvE trinkets in PvP in a recent hotfix, as well as giving PvPers rating-bound 'base' item level (that I assume can warforge), which at some point above 2k guarantees to be of mythic raid quality.

The problem is that it would be nigh on impossible for lower rated players to compete with those already wearing the BIS gear, but eh. Baby steps? If the trinket nerf stays in and they do something to tone down some of the more broken pve azerite traits, I think this system has potential to at least somewhat fix PvP gear being basically useless for anything but catch-up.

Though I do believe resilience / pvp power should stay dead. They were nice crutches, but they did not work. WoD's item level boost worked the best of all PvP gear-boosting systems, with its only issue being the stats growing after you'd been hit, resulting in a huge spike of health since dmg taken was calculated before boosted stamina...
No one begs for a handicap more than a PVPer who runs into a Mythic Raider outside of the Arena lmao.
07/27/2018 01:39 PMPosted by Yagarr
Please do not repeat the same mistake as Legion's WPvP. Warmode is an amazing system, but its participation will drastically fall if there're a few Gods walking around with high ilvls and elite customization because they do high-tier PvE.

PvPers do not want to PvE to supplement their ilvl, secondary stats, trinkets, item effects, etc.

Both Warmode and Instanced PvP should favor players in full PvP gear.

WOD was the best PvP system yet, only really injured by a severe barrier to entry (that could have been resolved with an ilvl floor in instanced PvP.) Removing PvP gear has simply been a failed system that made PvP rewards feel behind the rest of the game.

I'd suggest bringing back WoD's dual-ilvl gear, or at least scaling everyone to the same ilvl in PvP, with bonuses for wearing PvP gear in every slot.


If all your gear is from the top of the rated system, yeah your gear should be better than high tier PVE in world and instanced PVP.

But WPVP and random unrated BGs are the lowest skill form of PVP. Unless you're fine with the idea of being forced to run away whenever a stray PVE mob is also aggroed lest it kill you before you can kill a gank target (i.e., you're okay with the reverse idea, and all PVE gear is better in all PVE), there's no way WPVP/unrated rewards should be automatically better than all levels of PVE gear just because it's from PVP.
07/27/2018 06:05 PMPosted by Resonance
But WPVP and random unrated BGs are the lowest skill form of PVP.


You can exhibit skill in both of those settings.

07/27/2018 06:05 PMPosted by Resonance
Unless you're fine with the idea of being forced to run away whenever a stray PVE mob is also aggroed lest it kill you before you can kill a gank target (i.e., you're okay with the reverse idea, and all PVE gear is better in all PVE), there's no way WPVP/unrated rewards should be automatically better than all levels of PVE gear just because it's from PVP.


WPvP is not PvE content. Having mobs around does not make something PvE's domain. (Ex. Alterac Valley.)

Warmode is designed to incentivize World PvP. PvP content thrives best when players utilize skill instead of gear disparities. Therefore, PvP Gear should be the most viable in all PvP content, world or instanced.

The good news about PvP Gear, at least in past incarnations, is that it can be earned through a reliable, structured method. If we get rid of RNG and bracket-locked ilvls (like in WOD) anyone, regardless of skill, could earn BIS PvP gear. In WoD, you could get Conquest gear from unrated content, it just took longer than rated.
I had to raid all xpac so I could wpvp at a respectable level and it was miserable. I understand why people like raiding, and if that's your thing then more power to you. I just don't enjoy it much besides the story (which I can get from LFR). Give us a way to get heroic quality loot from PvP without being 2k rated. It's way easier to get a full set of heroic raid gear than it is to get 2k. I don't care if the elitists here call me bad for saying so, I know how good I am at wpvp.
I sort of updated this thread by making another one on the arena forums.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766736568

Please comment/upvote if you want Blizzard to see it.
I think people need to accept that Gear is king in non-instanced PVP. It always has been and it always should be. WPVP is not some hardcore rated system where you're competing for rank. In all versions of instanced PVP, Arena, BG's, Rated BG's, gear is nullified, which is fine. But WPVP is !@#$ around PVP.

There needs to be a balance where gear matters and where it doesn't. We currently have that balance. In all *important* PVP content, gear does not matter. You can't honestly expect people to be okay with gear being useless in world content just like you would never accept being one shot by an OP trinket in an Arena.
07/27/2018 07:48 PMPosted by Duranin
*important* PVP content


The content I find important is content that I find is fun.

I do not see Raiding or M+ as fun. I do see WPvP as fun.

I do not see why PvE content should provide BiS gear for PvP content, world or otherwise.

The spirit of PvP demands fair competition. PvP Gear can be earned in a way that assists fair competition - Currency-Vendors.

PvE Gear is RNG and meant to simply be an incentive for players to run the same content on repeat by delivering tiny doses of dopamine to their brain every time they get an "upgrade."
07/27/2018 08:05 PMPosted by Yagarr
07/27/2018 07:48 PMPosted by Duranin
*important* PVP content


PvE Gear is RNG and meant to simply be an incentive for players to run the same content on repeat by delivering tiny doses of dopamine to their brain every time they get an "upgrade."


And PVP is any different? PVP is every bit as repetitive even MORE SO than PvE. At least in PvE the challenges we face change every tier. You're literally doing the same thing for an entire expansion. PVP has always been a sideshow in WoW. It's an MMORPG. PvE is the whole point of the game.
07/27/2018 07:48 PMPosted by Duranin
I think people need to accept that Gear is king in non-instanced PVP. It always has been


Except the systems in place during MoP and WoD were completely fine, and with few outliers, sooooo...
07/27/2018 08:18 PMPosted by Corpseworth
07/27/2018 07:48 PMPosted by Duranin
I think people need to accept that Gear is king in non-instanced PVP. It always has been


Except the systems in place during MoP and WoD were completely fine, and with few outliers, sooooo...


Except they were removed SOOOOOOOOOOOOO. :^)
07/27/2018 08:19 PMPosted by Duranin
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Except the systems in place during MoP and WoD were completely fine, and with few outliers, sooooo...


Except they were removed SOOOOOOOOOOOOO. :^)


Which is what we're saying is the problem

Naturally the 254 ilvl Ret doesn't want his ticket to free kills taken away
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Except they were removed SOOOOOOOOOOOOO. :^)


Which is what we're saying is the problem

Naturally the 254 ilvl Ret doesn't want his ticket to free kills taken away


And naturally the mechanically challenged PVPer doesn't want to have to actually play the game not get oneshot by people who actually progress content lmao.
07/27/2018 08:30 PMPosted by Duranin
...

Which is what we're saying is the problem

Naturally the 254 ilvl Ret doesn't want his ticket to free kills taken away


And naturally the mechanically challenged PVPer doesn't want to have to actually play the game not get oneshot by people who actually progress content lmao.


You really don't have anything to go on here, do you?
...

And naturally the mechanically challenged PVPer doesn't want to have to actually play the game not get oneshot by people who actually progress content lmao.


You really don't have anything to go on here, do you?


More than you by the looks of things. No AOTC of any kind, No 2K at all. At least I accomplish stuff in my area of play. RIP bro. RIP.
07/27/2018 08:43 PMPosted by Duranin
...

You really don't have anything to go on here, do you?


More than you by the looks of things. No AOTC of any kind, No 2K at all. At least I accomplish stuff in my area of play. RIP bro. RIP.


I WPvP, bro.
Let's see, you just got 5,000 HKs last month and I got 250,000 two years ago... :thinking:

Different people like different things. PvErs got to have their cake and eat it too, I get that you don't want that taken away, but you should really try not to be so selfish.
...

More than you by the looks of things. No AOTC of any kind, No 2K at all. At least I accomplish stuff in my area of play. RIP bro. RIP.


I WPvP, bro.
Let's see, you just got 5,000 HKs last month and I got 250,000 two years ago... :thinking:

Different people like different things. PvErs got to have their cake and eat it too, I get that you don't want that taken away, but you should really try not to be so selfish.


So you exclusively do something in the game that is even MORE basic than normal PVP?

Big OOOOF bro. Yeah, those HK's will totally carry you in.....oh wait. Nothing. Nothing at all. They are literally meaningless. You have wasted hours accomplishing nothing.

Grats?
07/27/2018 08:51 PMPosted by Duranin
...

I WPvP, bro.
Let's see, you just got 5,000 HKs last month and I got 250,000 two years ago... :thinking:

Different people like different things. PvErs got to have their cake and eat it too, I get that you don't want that taken away, but you should really try not to be so selfish.


So you exclusively do something in the game that is even MORE basic than normal PVP?

Big OOOOF bro. Yeah, those HK's will totally carry you in.....oh wait. Nothing. Nothing at all. They are literally meaningless. You have wasted hours accomplishing nothing.

Grats?


Whatever makes you feel better about being carried by gear.

We get it, you wouldn't be able to do much without the 30+ ilvl advantage. You can go back to General Discussion now.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum