Sylvanas did nothing wrong!!!

General Discussion
Sylvanas did nothing wrong!
*in the context of her character.

Many people claim it's bad writing, that she's moustache twirling, or that she killed people for no reason. I'm here right now to hopefully convince you otherwise!

I've seen a lot of people shocked and confused with Sylvanas' actions, and there's been a lot of discussion, however there's one thing i don't see people talking about.
Funnily enough, that thing is Sylvanas herself.

"The warchief of the horde blew up Teldrasil, dishonorably killing thousands of innocents!" That statement sure is shocking in of itself, however, if you substitute "warchief" with "Sylvanas Windrunner", all of a sudden, it seems to make a lot of sense.

In the short, Sylvanas calls the old, honourable verson of herself a fool. She is now cold, calculating, unforgiving, ruthless, and without remorse. Sylvanas is a monster. What everyone seems to forget is, this ISN'T new. If you've ever played during Cata, or did the Silverpine forest quest-line, you would know this to be true. Even Garosh compares her to the lich king, and she doesn't seem to bat an eye. For Sylvanas, the ends justify the means. Perhaps what makes this so scary is that she IS good at what she does, and in Darkshore, she succeeds. (more on that later)

As for the "why did she burn instead of occupy", many people say she threw a fit, and snapped. I think there is a strong case to make here. What I don't understand, is why people equate this to bad writing. Sylvanas acting like a flawed character, versus a perfect analytical machine seems to me like an obvious choice. I don't know about you, but jesus-type characters don't make for good stories in video games in my opinion.

Additionally, there is room to also argue and remember that Sylvanas was trying to remove teldrasil from the picture while also using hostages as a shield, HOWEVER, she also acknowledges during the campaign that this IS war (and again, during the cutscene), and that she does expect retaliation on other fronts. Delaryn then informs Sylvanas that even if they do occupy Teldrasil, the night elves will never, EVER give up on getting it back. In this situation, burning Teldrasil solves multiple problems: The elves trafficking through Tel'drasil, the possibility that they get it back, and has the added benefit (in her mind) of destroying their hope. While definetly not a choice Thrall, Bane, or Saurfang would make, we have to remember, this IS Sylvanas, and is RIGHT up her alley. If anything, sylvanas showed restraint in not employing the plague, out of respect of the rest of the horde's wishes (and her original goal of having hostages.)
I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on this, as I've been thinking alot on this subject, and I know its very volatile. I do agree Sylvanas is being villainous, but I recognize this has always been her way. Remembering Vol'jin's words "many will not understand" I think it's safe to assume her "pragmatism" will come in handy when tentacles start sprouting from the ground. I do hope to see a lot of character development with Sylvanas, and I strongly disagree that "she can never be redeemed", considering that she hasn't done anything out of character, and yet people follow her still.
im glad now its time for sw
I saw no problems with it I am like okay that was fun get on the forums and everyone is going bananas.
07/31/2018 09:13 PMPosted by Luciela
I do agree Sylvanas is being villainous


There's villainous and then there's taking thousands of unarmed civilian men women and children and burning them all alive.
Yes it is within her character but the fact that NOBODY questions this or tells her this is madness or does literally anything at all is what makes this whole thing terrible. The fact that all the horde leaders just accepted her as new warchief without a second thought was horrible. The fact that my characters who wouldnt go along with this have to is stupid.

So yes Sylvanus being a horrible creature is not surprising it is all the other stuff I hate and why I'll be playing alliance this expac
07/31/2018 09:17 PMPosted by Infernastorm
07/31/2018 09:13 PMPosted by Luciela
I do agree Sylvanas is being villainous


There's villainous and then there's taking thousands of unarmed civilian men women and children and burning them all alive.


That's called WAR.

Think about it, so called warcrimes are human inventions, when two animals in nature fight to the death they don't care about rights or dirty tactics, The only thing that matters is strong and weak. The strong survive the weak die.
07/31/2018 09:20 PMPosted by Mooveit
07/31/2018 09:17 PMPosted by Infernastorm
...

There's villainous and then there's taking thousands of unarmed civilian men women and children and burning them all alive.


That's called WAR.

Think about it, so called warcrimes are human inventions, when two animals in nature fight to the death they don't care about rights or dirty tactics, The only thing that matters is strong and weak. The strong survive the weak die.


This keeps being brought up and is idiotic.
The tree of greed is burning. It had to go. Planting a tree to regain immortality, what did the elves expect? And that Old God/Emerald Nightmare business before the Cataclysm... (read the book Stormrage if you don't know about the tree and the nightmare)
I didn't like it at first, but I replayed the cinematic a few times and what she did makes sense. The night elf straight up told Sylvanas that what she had planned would never break them of their hope. So she called an audible and we saw the hope fade from the NE. Sylvanas' plan worked. Was it evil? Yes. Was it morally grey? No. But, in the end, she got what she came for. And isn't that all that Sylvanas has ever been about?
07/31/2018 09:23 PMPosted by Sistask
The tree of greed is burning. It had to go. Planting a tree to regain immortality, what did the elves expect? And that Old God/Emerald Nightmare business before the Cataclysm... (read the book Stormrage if you don't know about the tree and the nightmare)


Says the race that tortured a Naaru because they were addicted to magic lmao.

07/31/2018 09:08 PMPosted by Luciela
She is now cold, calculating, unforgiving, ruthless, and without remorse.


She got trolled by a night elf and rage ordered a tree to burn.

07/31/2018 09:24 PMPosted by Nethir
No. But, in the end, she got what she came for. And isn't that all that Sylvanas has ever been about?


She didn't though, her city falls next because the Alliance precisely got emboldened. Holding the night elves hostages was much more fruitful.
07/31/2018 09:20 PMPosted by Tecs
Yes it is within her character but the fact that NOBODY questions this or tells her this is madness or does literally anything at all is what makes this whole thing terrible. The fact that all the horde leaders just accepted her as new warchief without a second thought was horrible. The fact that my characters who wouldnt go along with this have to is stupid.

So yes Sylvanus being a horrible creature is not surprising it is all the other stuff I hate and why I'll be playing alliance this expac


While it is unfortunate that Blizz cut everything after sylvanas walks away, I can assure you there is backlash, it's just a consequence of mmo /timegated
storytelling it seems. Bad move on blizz for not alluding any further than nathanos and saurfang giving her that look when she says to burn the tree.
07/31/2018 09:20 PMPosted by Mooveit
That's called WAR.


No, it really isn't.

hence, why it's never happened before in game and the minor examples of when it DID happen, we saw immediate lethal consequences for the perpetrators.

Garrosh himself, before he lost his mind, executed his own Horde officer when they did so in Stonetalon.

This game has established that there are SOME THINGS that you cannot do, even in war. So stop bleating about 'war', okay?

Garrosh got put on trial for WAR CRIMES, because there are rules in warfare in this game's universe and Sylvanas broke those rules and there WILL be consequences for her as well.

For the love of Green Jesus, stop babbling about 'war'. What she did is not an act of war.

It was a crime.
Calculating?

The calculations for the loss of Horde resources and lives in the taking of Teldrassil? An investment that did not see its maximum return in the way of seized resources, defenses, land and hostages.

The calculations of the potential backlash from the neutral forces? If the Cenarion Circle allows this to pass it will only be because of poor writing. What will the Blood Elves make of an advancing force of undead soldiers sacking a city and murdering the survivors? The savagery of Arthas isn't even one Elven generation in the past; it's a focal point in this very cinematic. What about Khadgar and the Kirin Tor? Khadgar threw Jaina of Dalaran for her intolerance to the Horde; will that guilt weigh on him now as Kaldorei children are burned alive by the same faction he went out on a limb to allow back into Dalaran? Where is Vareesa Windrunner who lost her husband to the last Warchief the murdered an entire city?

Or maybe you're talking about the calculation of how much strain a planet that is bleeding its lifeforce is under and how much more strain the burning of a Great Tree might add to it? Not to mention the destruction of countless Druids that help maintain it. I'm sure she thought of how her actions might inadvertently end the planet on the spot in those three seconds before she crapped her pants at being criticized by a dying Night Elf.

There was nothing calculated about this and trying to wave it off as a 'flaw' is a gross understatement. From a tactical, economical, or political perspective this was the work of an idiot god.

tl;dr you don't win a war by having temper tantrums. and you certainly don't win a war by being a reckless idiot with your resources and good will. you CERTAINLY don't win wars by potentially dragging unaffiliated third parties in AGAINST you. if willingness to murder was all that it took to rule successfully Hitler and Voldemort would have had a better time of it.
My my ... I didn't see this type of reaction when Sylvanas blighted Gilneas killing hundreds if not thousands of citizens. The big difference? Presentation. They wanted people to have an emotional response and from the looks of it, they hit their mark.

Nice job Blizz. Nice job.
@

07/31/2018 09:34 PMPosted by Jadall
Calculating?


Yes, war was her intention from the start, so clearly she was willing to take on the full responsibility and ramifications. War is expensive, welcome to BFA, where everything you stated will be addressed! (It's kind of the point of the expansion) - untill azshara pops in, at least!
07/31/2018 09:39 PMPosted by Psynistar
They wanted people to have an emotional response and from the looks of it, they hit their mark.

Nice job Blizz. Nice job.


Yep! Hopefully they can have the courage to stick to their guns and not pull a thrall or garrosh on this one, that would truly be a waste of potential.
Says the race that tortured a Naaru because they were addicted to magic lmao.


The majority of your race became demons and slaughtered millions of innocents across the universe.

She got trolled by a night elf and rage ordered a tree to burn.


Maybe, but why did Sylvanas have all of the catapults loaded and ready to fire? Clearly she had the intention of doing this, just not right away. She wanted to make a point and she did. The Alliance has lost hope because of this, at least until next week.

07/31/2018 09:25 PMPosted by Averyx
She didn't though, her city falls next because the Alliance precisely got emboldened. Holding the night elves hostages was much more fruitful.


Yes she did get what she wanted. And her losing her city next week has nothing to do with what she wanted to happen today. Saurfang's Night Elf hostages are being questioned for no reason at all. That's Saurfang's doing, not hers.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum