Not nearly so many would be angry

General Discussion
08/02/2018 03:52 PMPosted by Annaillusion
As for Genn not turning people into Worgens? How easy do we forget the castle of people who turned into Worgens. To serve for his army against Sylvanas.


Not how I remember that story, as I recall it was so if they died they wouldn't be raised as forsaken.
kill them, murder them. all of them. kill all Alliance weaklings

Long live the Dark Lady, Warchief of the Horde, Supreme Ruler of the Forsaken, the Banshee Queen, Conqueror of Darnassus and Bane of the night elves
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That's why I'm angry about the story. Her lore tells me she was a brilliant tactician, but at no point did the devs write her as such.

The only reason the Horde won was because the devs wanted it, so Malfurion and Tyrande were even worse at war than Sylvanas.

It's Lawful Stupid vs Stupid Evil right now, and that is not engaging.


It's clear that some outside force is influencing her decisions. Maybe it's not outright controlling her, but perhaps nudging her in a direction she normally wouldn't have gone. The little devil on her shoulder, so the speak. That line wasn't in there for nothing.


it doesnt matter.... whatever they do with her in regards to redemption arc will just look like damage control to the backlash, she killed thousands of civilians anything short of her being a raid boss wont sit well with most.. on both sides.

imo this is a very bland and predictable story arc... she either has a redemption arc or she is a raid boss.. both are boring out comes and def wasnt what was hyped from the showing of the first burning tree pick. personally i just did the time hop right after finishing it and pretending it all never happened while enjoying the free mount... here's to the next xpac /cheers.
Sylvanas was a brilliant tactician. She was clever, willing to do evil behind our backs, able to consider consequences and follow through with plans.

I didn't want Sylvanas to be good- I wanted her to kill Malfurion, take the tree, get the azerite, raise an undead night elf army and I wanted her to do every nasty part of it behind our and Saurfang's backs while making us do the grunt work. And I wanted her to do that because she knew that was how the Horde would win, that was how the forsaken and herself would grow stronger.

Because that is what Sylvanas would do.

My problem isn't that Sylvanas is evil, my problem is that Sylvanas is suddenly a !@#$ing idiot with evil for the sake of being evil reasons for everything she does.
08/02/2018 04:09 PMPosted by Xiamei
08/02/2018 03:52 PMPosted by Annaillusion
As for Genn not turning people into Worgens? How easy do we forget the castle of people who turned into Worgens. To serve for his army against Sylvanas.


Not how I remember that story, as I recall it was so if they died they wouldn't be raised as forsaken.


Of course it's not! But thats because it was simply how he manipulated them into changing so he could bolster his army. Granted we would of changed them had he not done it. That is beside the point. He still was cursing people just the same as Sylvanas to bolster his forces.
08/02/2018 04:28 PMPosted by Annaillusion
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Not how I remember that story, as I recall it was so if they died they wouldn't be raised as forsaken.


Of course it's not! But thats because it was simply how he manipulated them into changing so he could bolster his army. Granted we would of changed them had he not done it. That is beside the point. He still was cursing people just the same as Sylvanas to bolster his forces.


Can you really compare being a worgen to being a forsaken though?

Worgens can live normal live as humans despite being cursed.

Forsaken on the other hand live lives of misery.

They can't enjoy the taste of food, their sense of touch is dulled so it feels like their whole body is numb all the time, and they can't even have sex. They look and smell horrible, their wounds don't heal on their own, and a lot of them suffer from brain damage due to the decay of their brains that happened before they were resurrected.

Also it might have been retconned, but it was also stated that Forsaken all suffer from depression due to the shadow magic that holds their souls to their bodies.

What's the drawback to being a worgen?
08/02/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Goblinoffyre
08/02/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Averyx
You wanted her to just go OOC and become good? Now that is worse writing.

She did something that was no benefit to her but would hurt the Horde in the long run. THAT is what was totally out of character for her.

I don't owe it to you or anybody else to spend thousands of dollars putting together a library of garage sale books and studying old stories that have already been retconned to see which details they kept and which they swept under the rug.

Wrong. Her original plan was to divide the Alliance by holding the nelves as prisoner, but in the end she couldn't do that without Malfurion's corpse, so she decided to take it a step further in emotion and rage, emotion and rage being big parts of the character lol
08/02/2018 04:15 PMPosted by Twistmist
imo this is a very bland and predictable story arc... she either has a redemption arc or she is a raid boss.. both are boring out comes and def wasnt what was hyped from the showing of the first burning tree pick.


This exactly. It's not that she did something evil so much as what her being full-on-evil will inevitably lead to.

As soon as she became Warchief, my first thought was "oh great, Blizzard is never going to let that ride, beginning of the end for Sylvanas" and yup, my worries were correct. Either another rebellion or she has a cheesy redemption (that probably also ends in death) and then what, we get Thrall again?

We aren't even coming out ahead in this battle (Lordaeron leaves both sides down one city) so there isn't even a payoff as consolation. The Forsaken lose their leader to some rebellion/redemption arc and we lose our capital too, wonderful.
08/02/2018 02:21 PMPosted by Infernastorm
People are angry because the story is crap.


oh master story teller you, please enlighten us and the devs on what the master story should have been, oh author extraordinaire!

... get over yourself. story is epic.
08/02/2018 04:52 PMPosted by Saryssila
08/02/2018 02:21 PMPosted by Infernastorm
People are angry because the story is crap.


oh master story teller you, please enlighten us and the devs on what the master story should have been, oh author extraordinaire!

... get over yourself. story is epic.


I'm enjoying it, we're finally taking the war to the Alliance.
08/02/2018 02:24 PMPosted by Searik

Also this. While the alliance think of her as the next Sargeras, while ruthless she's not stupid.


Sliding into a death knight with a powerful magic sword is pretty stupid. As is inviting a known dreadlord into your city, among many other things.
Sylvanas is evil. Sylvanas is also cold, calculating, conniving and, above all, smart. Every action she took was weighed and her actions are usually done so in a way that she can defend them if put in question.

Someone that plays a game of odds and politics knows better than to take a deliberate action that would make her lose support and have her own followers turn against her. She made deliberate strides to make herself seem more appealing to the Horde in the most recent books. She had Saurfang hot on her heels, ready to throw down at the first wrong step.

Sylvanas does not wear her heart on her sleeve and act on emotional impulse, she keeps it bottled up and acts in secret, much like her internal conflict about being dead and the hell that awaits her, the grief she felt and dismissed when presented the amulet of her sisters and the grief of Arthas being slain by someone other than her. She makes vendettas, keeps them in mind and fulfills them in a timely manner with brutal efficiency, no knee jerk reactions with her.

This was poorly weighed, in blatant opposition of those who followed her (a gigantic, critical thing you do not threaten to sacrifice as a leader) and, as a bottom line, pants on head retarded. This was as out of character as it gets with Sylvanas. It is also out of character for the Horde to be okay with this whole ordeal when they had an entire story arc committed to integrity and honor.

Garrosh Hellscream would do something violently impulsive based off of emotion. Sylvanas Windrunner is not Garrosh Hellscream.
This is honestly the case, i really dont know how people were defending her, she has been kinda a !@#$% all along, like this is absolutely par the course with her.
08/02/2018 02:25 PMPosted by Glumrot
the horde stuck with garrosh when he nuked theramore and we will stick with sylv after she nuked darn

no mercy for alliance srry not srry


Thank you. You will receive none, either.
08/02/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Goblinoffyre
She did something that was no benefit to her but would hurt the Horde in the long run. THAT is what was totally out of character for her.

^^
I kinda agree with OP that she acts on her own, and she can be "evil". But at the same time, she has always done things for her own benefit, or the benefit of the Forsaken.

Burning the tree benefits no one.
08/02/2018 02:42 PMPosted by Knocka
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She did something that was no benefit to her but would hurt the Horde in the long run. THAT is what was totally out of character for her.

I don't owe it to you or anybody else to spend thousands of dollars putting together a library of garage sale books and studying old stories that have already been retconned to see which details they kept and which they swept under the rug.

Wrong. Also people are making a facsimile of ret-conning and story telling. In no form of media do they tell you everything up front. Imagine watching GoT expecting to get all the details as the episodes unfold. It’s the stuff you don’t know that makes a story good in the long run.

As far as it not helping the Horde? We have no alliance capitals on our continent now, how does that not help the Horde?

I guess you weren't standing there when she admitted that handling it this way meant they were going to come for Lordaeron.

This "what you saw happen wasn't actually what you saw happen" hasn't been all that successful so far as a mechanism for covering for lame plot twists.

There is no reason whatever I should do research instead of playing the game when the lore itself is treated as though it is disposable. I should go study stuff that was never presented in the game and was never relevant? No.

If the devs don't care enough to make the story behind the game even minimally comprehensible, then they are admitting it's just a sham to cover for their gameplay decisions.
08/02/2018 02:20 PMPosted by Averyx
So many are angry because of how Sylvanas acted when it was obvious.

People spent over a decade defending her to force a narrative they had on their heads.


One doesn't need to be labeled an apologist to be upset over what happened. It's like saying "Don't be upset X murdered Y, because we all knew X was nasty". That's silly, and I'm being nice.
08/02/2018 02:54 PMPosted by Inodee
Edit: Same goes for the opposite side for Alliance. If you're slavering for Horde hides... are you F/T warmode to support that?

I turned on warmode as soon as it was available, and I've yet to see any reason to turn it off. I do world quests every day without too much trouble, and I've raided all four Alliance capitals and downed the faction leader in each, and successfully defended Tyrande and Stormwind against Horde raids.

People who aren't roleplaying the faction loyalty to the hilt are missing out on all the fun.
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Of course it's not! But thats because it was simply how he manipulated them into changing so he could bolster his army. Granted we would of changed them had he not done it. That is beside the point. He still was cursing people just the same as Sylvanas to bolster his forces.


What's the drawback to being a worgen?


Fleas, the need of a fire hydrant or tree, and no self control when it comes to balls and bones.

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