Delete LFR and replace it

General Discussion
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I'm really sorry that Blizzard forces you to go in LFR. :(
08/05/2018 08:51 AMPosted by Gwyyn
Getting rid of lfr wont force people into Normals.

All it will do is make lfr raiders stop raiding completely.

So no, it's never going away. Find some way to come to terms with that and move on with your life.

That.
Getting REALLY tiresome of hearing the perpetual whimpering and whining from players who cant exercise self control and stay OUT of the group finder if they dont like it.
Its past absurd at this point.
08/05/2018 11:37 AMPosted by Forums
08/05/2018 11:11 AMPosted by Stonebrae
BC - 10 raids
WotLK - 10 raids
Cata - 7 raids
MoP(first full LFR expansion) - 5 raids
WoD - 3 raids
Legion - 5 raids


Yea, a lot of those BC/Wrath ones were single boss raids. Eye of Eternity, Obsydian Dragonshrine, Ruby Dragonshrine, Gruul's Lair (2 bosses), Magtheridon. Two were also only 10 man, KAra and Zul'aman.

You're also forgetting that the opening raid for Wrath, Naxxramas WAS LITERALLY RECYCLED FROM PATCH 1.11 BECAUSE HARDLY ANYONE HAD SEEN THE INSIDE OF IT.

That alone is what justified LFR.

And no, it's not about the number of raids, it's the QUALITY of them. They may not have the story arcs to insert multiple raids like the Eye of Eternity. And shoe-horning them in like Zul'aman because "Troll Raid" doesn't really work either.

Oh... and your numbers are wrong:

BC - 9 (8 accessible)
Wrath - 9 (1 was PvP)
Cata - 6 (1 was PvP)
MoP - 5
WoD - 3 (We know why this was)
Legion - 5

But let's look at the number of encounters:

BC - 52
Wrath - 32*
Cata - 28*
MoP - 43
WoD - 30
Legion - 40

* Excluding Naxx bosses since they were developed in Patch 1.11 with only change being Rivendare for Mograine. Also not counting the PvP Bosses. Same with Cata

Before LFR - 104
After LFR -121


Wow you tried really hard here to show a difference. Because if you add in WotLK Naxx and the bosses in BH and Wintergrasp then it shows a different story.

By your counting method we need to exclude Ragnaros, Gruul and Archimonde because they are re-used content. Also probably every Sha boss after the first since they all looked the same. What about Hagara because her boss room was reused from EoE?

As much as you want to make stuff up to fit your narrative, the fact is we have gotten less raids and less raid bosses since LFR was released.
08/05/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Stonebrae
As much as you want to make stuff up to fit your narrative, the fact is we have gotten less raids and less raid bosses since LFR was released.


Quality over quantity.
08/05/2018 08:50 AMPosted by Meritha
You can feel how you like, but it doesn't matter when Blizzard sees it's purpose even if you don't.


Purpose maybe but they have failed and have admitted to failing because LFR isn't quite working as intended. It needs to be redesigned. Maybe even as far as reducing it to 10-man and removing it from cross realm. Make people accountable for their actions and if you never want to get grouped with them again. Make it real easy to ignore them.

LFR needs to evolve from this no one gives a crap mentality to a group that does need to count on one another at least a bit. Sure maybe I am going too far but it would bring LFR closer to the state some might say it should be or what it was intended to do.
08/05/2018 08:48 AMPosted by Nippyss
kicking the bee hive again here but this is something I'll fight for until the day I die

LFR needs to be reworked, revamped or removed. This has been the worse change to the game I've ever seen since hitting that create character button.

It's punched a huge hole in the community and caused more bad than good.

I'll say something that will stir the pot up here but this isn't raiding. This is like saying you're driving when you're in a taxi. The bosses are stupid as hell and they're just big punching bags that award loot at the end. Today I made myself a coffee whilst defeating the burning legion once and for all and still managed to go unnoticed as AFK and still out perform half the raid

Make a new system to get people into normal mode, give players that have done it incentives to run with people that haven't done it or just need a hand doing it again. Guided runs or what ever. The rewards can be what ever blizzard conjures up to make it worth it. Can still be broken up some people that have poor attention spans and weak time management can still get it done

I don't even care if LFR comes towards the end of the tier

If they insist on keeping the cursed thing then make it reward the stupidest loot ever that is barely worth doing it

A few comments I expect to see

"I want to see the content and I don't have the time"
Well for a start you shouldn't be wanting to see the content you should be wanting to do the content, which I struggle to accept that you are doing the content because all you're doing is killing a target dummy
Also if you don't have the time that's tough luck on your half, like anything you want to do you have to make the time for it and if you really can't do it then watch a stream or a youtube video because it will be more interesting than what you're doing it. Unplug your keyboard and pretend you're doing a rotation on the boss because that's closer to what LFR is than raiding

"dont tell me how to play the game I pay for it"
You're playing the game in baby mode I'm sorry to say and it never should have ever made raiding the look the way LFR does.

"it's LOOKING FOR RAID it is RAIDING"
No its not. it's pretty much a transmog run that gets put together for you by the game

Feel free to go nuts at me for being so bold but I have to get this off my chest at least once a week


What day is it kids? That's right, it's SUNDAY
08/05/2018 10:49 AMPosted by Nippyss
It needs to be balanced for everyone and not just casuals

Meanwhile you want to gut content for casuals and not replace it with anything because you're a bitter individual who can't have fun if the "wrong" people are seeing the same content as you.
08/05/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Stonebrae
By your counting method we need to exclude Ragnaros, Gruul and Archimonde because they are re-used content. Also probably every Sha boss after the first since they all looked the same. What about Hagara because her boss room was reused from EoE?

They weren't reused encounters though. WotLK Naxx was almost a carbon copy of vanilla Naxx.
08/05/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Stonebrae
As much as you want to make stuff up to fit your narrative, the fact is we have gotten less raids and less raid bosses since LFR was released.


Naxx and Onxyia were literally level bumped for 80 in WotlK. Ragnaros in Firelands, Archimonde in Hellfire are completely different encounters than in Molten Core and Mount Hyjal.
So WoD had garbage rewards in LFR.

Was the community magically better and were more people running Normal?

Or were there less people playing the game all together?
I'd say delete LFR and make normal que'able. Then change the raid design to have it's difficulty be dictated by how the players approach the beginning portion leading up to the first boss. Like Ulduar
08/05/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Nippyss
and this is not how you make an MMO, the core strength of an MMO comes from the community.


Oh... so Mr. Bolt... please tell us about YOUR successful multi-million dollar MMORPG; surely your experience as CEO/GameDEV/member of the board on BoltIdeasforMMORPG LLC™ has Blizzard, a company with a MMORPG that has 14 years in the market, beaten up in both popularity and revenue.

I eagerly await your financial report showcasing the many MMO games your company has in the market.
LFR is a needed piece of the puzzle.

It let's those who are casual see the content.

Because paying for this game means you should get to experience the content. It is unfair to be told by the community you aren't good enough for normal raids and give no option of an easier route.

This isn't "everyone gets a trophy." It's: "this game is fun and I'd like to see everything the devs put in and not be blocked by humans who want to feel better than me."
08/05/2018 12:04 PMPosted by Jalen
I'd say delete LFR and make normal que'able. Then change the raid design to have it's difficulty be dictated by how the players approach the beginning portion leading up to the first boss. Like Ulduar


In your version of the game, people queue for 'normal' and random trolls active the Mythic difficulty for the whole raid before dropping the group.
08/05/2018 12:11 PMPosted by Infernastorm
08/05/2018 12:04 PMPosted by Jalen
I'd say delete LFR and make normal que'able. Then change the raid design to have it's difficulty be dictated by how the players approach the beginning portion leading up to the first boss. Like Ulduar


In your version of the game, people queue for 'normal' and random trolls active the Mythic difficulty for the whole raid before dropping the group.


I meant that for Heroic and Mythic not normal.
08/05/2018 12:07 PMPosted by Gwenethil
It let's those who are casual see the content.

And before anyone brings it up, LFR needs to award gear. It's a separate line of progression for some players and the gear keeps people interested beyond the first week of availability. Imagine how hard it would be for someone to queue for LFR even a month down the road if you didn't get anything from doing it.
Same thing I always say when I see these threads. LFR was designed originally as a way for players who didn't have time for raiding, to still see the story. The story was always locked behind raids, and if you didn't raid, you never knew how it ended. You had to resort to youtube to see it.

So Blizz introduced LFR so those who didn't have the time for hardcore raiding, could still see the story. The gear was added because it was necessary. Otherwise people would complain that they get nothing for doing it.

My solution was to make LFR gear equal to dungeon gear. Remove epic quality from dungeons, go back to rare quality for dungeons. And as well, make LFR give rare quality dungeon loot. This removes LFR from progression by not providing better gear than what you can get in dungeons, while still allowing players to still see the conclusion to the story.

This also solves the issue of hardcore raiders getting the actual epic gear, without giving casual players easy mode purps. If they want those epics, start raiding. Otherwise, be content with your casual blues. This also means that WQs should only give dungeon quality blues as well.

Make epics epic again basically. Blues should be rewarded via quests, WQs, and dungeons (and LFR). Epics should be epic and only rewarded via hardcore raiding (normal, heroic, mythic). A full set of dungeon/LFR blues should be more than enough to get you into normal mode raiding if you want the purps, otherwise, enjoy the casual gear.
08/05/2018 08:51 AMPosted by Gwyyn
All it will do is make lfr raiders stop raiding completely.


LFR isn't raiding, though?
08/05/2018 12:07 PMPosted by Gwenethil
LFR is a needed piece of the puzzle.

It let's those who are casual see the content.

Because paying for this game means you should get to experience the content. It is unfair to be told by the community you aren't good enough for normal raids and give no option of an easier route.

This isn't "everyone gets a trophy." It's: "this game is fun and I'd like to see everything the devs put in and not be blocked by humans who want to feel better than me."


That is pretty much the exact problem

if you're horrid at the game and can't do normal then you shouldn't be seeing the content and getting your hand out trophy
If you suck at sport you won't make the team
if you suck at PvE then you won't make the raid

horrible concept from a cruel mastermind like my self but it's usually better to make people work for things and not just get hand outs

Time for me to go to bed, see you all next week when I continue my crusade of battling the LFR
Why do you care? It does not hurt you. If you don't want to do it then don't. For those that do want to do it, great. I did LFR for all of MOP and loved it.

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