What's the hype for classic pvp?

Classic Discussion
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I've failed to understand the hype of vanilla for years and have been watching some pvp vids off and on.

I see active abilities of melee deal virtually no damage and auto swings 3 shot people of equal gearscore.

Was this considered fun? The game plays itself for you. Spellcaster dps OOMs after 10 or 11 casts.
You make no sense. Vanilla PvP was great because you couldn't just fly away from the fight. Items mattered a lot, such as Sapper Charges and the Gnomish Death ray as my personal favorites. Also in 1.12 the game was more balanced which allowed pretty much any class to beat any other class as long as they were good enough.

If your referring to the videos of a Warrior going around killing people from 13 years ago then looking at the wrong videos. PvP is probably the most popular thing about Vanilla to this day.

Of course if you intend on raiding as a Warrior then you better get your Weapons from PvP because their BiS till Naxx. Because their BiS you aren't rewarded Rank 14 on a silver platter either because guilds need that and Warriors are the best class in Vanilla from a DPS PoV. I'm excited.
08/06/2018 11:00 PMPosted by Cyndira
You make no sense. Vanilla PvP was great because you couldn't just fly away from the fight. Items mattered a lot, such as Sapper Charges and the Gnomish Death ray as my personal favorites. Also in 1.12 the game was more balanced which allowed pretty much any class to beat any other class as long as they were good enough.

If your referring to the videos of a Warrior going around killing people from 13 years ago then looking at the wrong videos. PvP is probably the most popular thing about Vanilla to this day.

Of course if you intend on raiding as a Warrior then you better get your Weapons from PvP because their BiS till Naxx. Because their BiS you aren't rewarded Rank 14 on a silver platter either because guilds need that and Warriors are the best class in Vanilla from a DPS PoV. I'm excited.


I'm not really certain how I could have more clarity.

Watch any pvp vid from either years ago or classic private servers rn that aren't p2w. Warrior white damage crits mages for 2k on clothies w/ 3k hp.

2h Enhancement can proc windfury once and kill a rogue w/ 5k hp on white damage.
x person likes y thing
b person likes c thing

is it really difficult for people to comprehend this
Well, I couldn't see how Retail's PvP was fun.

- All the classes have self healing (Warriors, Rogues all have some spells to auto heal; Nice class identity).
- As a warrior, I was hitting pretty much for the same damage a mage, a hunter, a paladin or a rogue despite all of them having different type of armor
- All classes have some ridiculous mobility, starting by the warriors
- Tanks are un-killable
- Fights can last extremely long and no one will run out of mana
Vanilla PvP videos are for entertainment only. Most even state that in the intro.

The majority of the players who were actually good never record video, and those that do almost never publish video.

Additionally vanilla PvP is very different; resource management and auto attack are actually a component of game play; shocking that you cannot totally ignore them right?

Trying to describe vanilla PvP is completely impossible if your only frame of reference is modern WoW.

Here's the best way I can describe the difference.

Modern WoW is like playing slapjack.

Vanilla is like playing chess.

They're entirely different.
08/06/2018 09:34 PMPosted by Zaroessill
I see active abilities of melee deal virtually no damage and auto swings 3 shot people of equal gearscore.


Were these from fully buffed (+ zerker buff) warriors with rank 14 / BWL+ weapons? If they luck out and get 3 white crits in a row on cloth while recording, yea that'll go into the video. I don't recall what's necessary for a 2k white crit for a warrior but I figure it's something in that ballpark. I wouldn't say it was common as I've never personally died from a situation like that that I can remember.

It was fun man. Hard to say why. Maybe something about getting two shot with ambush backstab made the danger of getting poked with daggers feel more realistic. There was a greater sense of reward from basic things like just staying alive around a lot of hostiles. If someone got the jump on you, you had to be quick on your feet to respond. And if it wasn't someone out of stealth who got you then maybe you should have had better situational awareness. Outlasting/depleting a mana-user was a viable strategy 1-on-1 depending on your classes. The cost of a super long cast / high mana use spell had an attractive payoff (pyroblast, chain lightning, soulfire, etc). Iron grenades / gnomish mind control helm / goblin rocket boots out of engineering made for some memorable or otherwise satisfying PvP encounters.

With modern WoW it feels like you have this big safety net around everything that removes the kinds of challenges and opportunities that made PvP encounters feel so rewarding (or frustrating) to be a part of. You don't even get the kind of versatility with your class that used to be available with talent trees. Epics are now for everyone, so now they're epic in name only. And off the topic of PvP, even world mobs are something you can plow through mindlessly without any consideration to how you pull them or how to pace yourself with resource management.

So yea. Vanilla was a different game, and if you try it oneday and hate it then it's probably because it sucks. That's the deal with subjective things.
Why did my comment get deleted?

Was the skillcap difference between a classic and todays rogue too much to handle for the mods here?

Kinda off, considering i didnt even link to certain vids. Neither did i insult someone.

Repeat:

Go to youtube.

Search for perplexity

Watch his classic pvp movies

Logg on to current wow

Play rogue

Cry

Wait for classic
I don't understand why people like you come here to ask stupid questions? Honestly. Are you really basing your knowledge off of private servers which are known to guess numbers???

Back then duels were like playing chess, you had to use your abilities wisely and each class had a weakness. It was a great feeling to best a class that is known to be your weakness but furthermore because of the GCD you actually had time to react to offensive abilities.

Today's pvp consist of burst macros and spamming your abilities all at once. I hear in BFA they are trying to get away from this but time will tell as they have pruned the !@#$ out of every class leaving them hollow and bland.
Some of us aren't fans of column humping and pointlessly flailing away at the enemy while waiting for dampening to get high enough for a 20 second burst window to decide the game.
I think it may be safe to assume you would have an entirely different impression of vanilla PVP were you to have access to, and take the time to watch, the 97% of the PVP activity that did not make the creator's cut on their youtube video.

Would you be inclined to post a video showing your misses, resists, blocks and you getting CCed to death?
What's the point of pvp if 70-80% of your damage is white damage.

Even if you are on a lower gearscore comparable to those around you, ability damage still is virtually nonexistent.

The game plays itself for you then and there's virtually no margin for error. I'd much rather we go back to cata/pandaria complexity but actually having skills and abilities to use and outplay your opponent is a thing.

Vanilla you're just staring waiting onr esources to rise on white damage. Rogues gen. 1 combo point per 50 energy. Tons of empty globals. Warriors hit 1 mortal strike and are too starved to hit slam.

Ret has judgment and crusader strike and OOM's in 10 casts. Enh's damage is all windfury auto attack proc so virtually no ability damage. Feral didn't exist as a spec. Just going off the melee here, it's all white damage.

White damage, AUTOMATIC damage. That you just put into your macros as /startattack, is -not- skillful combat. It rises the skill floor to nearly match the ceiling. Positioning, movement, CC that there was less of in vanilla, are all components of WoW PvP since then.

Someone please present an argument that white damage constituting 70-80% of y our damage is skill ceiling, having less than 2 buttons to press per most specs. Ele sham chain lightning/lightning bolt. Frost mage icelance/frostbolt, just to toss out some casters and be less biased.
Looks like OP didnt take my advice.

heres a link for you that should open your eyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3_FkK_Fsfk

::: This isnt meant for or as advertising but for education purposes only :::
08/07/2018 05:10 AMPosted by Tricksyhyena
I think it may be safe to assume you would have an entirely different impression of vanilla PVP were you to have access to, and take the time to watch, the 97% of the PVP activity that did not make the creator's cut on their youtube video.

Would you be inclined to post a video showing your misses, resists, blocks and you getting CCed to death?


Doesn't change that most of your damage is all white. Auto attacks, no skill play.
You're forgetting CC abilities, movement abilites, defensive abilities, trinkets, professions. And your numbers are still wrong, white damage was not that strong in classic.

In classic white damaged mattered because you were suppose to kite or die. And as a melee if you got kited you died. How it should be. Not invincible healers running around button mashing.
Looks like OP didnt take my advice.

heres a link for you that should open your eyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3_FkK_Fsfk

::: This isnt meant for or as advertising but for education puposes only :::


His main hand non crit is hitting for 338 and ability is hitting for less than that. 2 Abilities and he's out of energy just auto attacking waiting for it to come back up.

Showing a video of someone auto attacking and swapping to weapons using up those globals just to cheese weapon effects isn't addressing the problem that white damage is all your damage and the game plays itself. WOTLK and Cata rogue duels had alot more action behind it and area to mess up from having to hit abilities down to the .5 seconds remainiing on a CC before prep would extend your lockdown.

I would like to see the logical reason why classic was so popular but the pvp and 'rotations' are played automatically by the game. Dodge chance, miss chance, hit chance, crit chance, that seem to be considered core function of the game are all RNG. That was erased come draenor and the rest legion. It's anti fun/pro to have 1/3 of your attacks missing due to RNG, let alone white damage claiming most of your damage. Hardly any room for error once you simply get the hand over hand understood.
08/07/2018 06:03 AMPosted by Skylìne
You're forgetting CC abilities, movement abilites, defensive abilities, trinkets, professions. And your numbers are still wrong, white damage was not that strong in classic.

In classic white damaged mattered because you were suppose to kite or die. And as a melee if you got kited you died. How it should be. Not invincible healers running around button mashing.


4 or 5 extra buttons on 2-3 minute long cd's is still -huge- downtime of activated abilities. Healers could be killed just fine in cata and arguably BC though BC was just vanilla + 10 skill points.
Ok so count buttons and ignore everything else. Tell you what, go ahead and roll a warrior when classic comes out, and meet me for a duel. Then you can learn what it feels like to die never even getting to use white damage.
Let me put it this way:

vanishing abilities? gone
A way to outplay feldom? gone
kick/cc and outdure feldom buff? gone
Stancedancing? gone
Weaponswitching? gone
trinket + engi + other shenanigan outplays? gone
disarm to prevent shield wall? gone
deeper kite mechanics? gone
Totemswitching and instant ticks? gone
distract blink? gone
distract charge? gone
stun on charge? gone
Resource management? gone
abilities requiring certain character position and/or weapon types? gone
Death zone? gone
having to actually cast and stand still to deal meaningful dmg? gone
globals on kick abilities making you rethink every move? gone
extremely limited movement options? gone
Way more spell options? gone
.
.
.

its called pruning for a reason.



08/07/2018 06:05 AMPosted by Zaroessill
Showing a video of someone auto attacking and swapping to weapons using up those globals just to cheese weapon effects isn't addressing the problem that white damage is all your damage and the game plays itself. WOTLK and Cata rogue duels had alot more action behind it and area to mess up from having to hit abilities down to the .5 seconds remainiing on a CC before prep would extend your lockdown.


Wrath is essentially the same as classic with more spells and way more resources but less consumables and less classic outplay mechanics still working.
Wrath also had abominations like hunters, the first class ever to be able to do everything.

Im not surprised you think that way tho, you will see it for yourself when u get outplayed by a good player in classic once it launched.

But go ahead and dump your resources and pray for your white hits to carry you – good luck with that.
Classic pvp is fun for the people that have poor reaction time and make up for it by just having gear and playing a lot. To put it simply current wow is more micro, vanilla is more macro

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