How are you healing dungeons?

Priest
08/18/2018 03:39 PMPosted by Sashapray
I feel like Divine star is our biggest heal. When you have Atonement up and you use it on the entire group and a pack of mobs.. it heals for so much.


Yup, DS/Halo is the way to go. Purge is not really good, glad to have two other choices.
08/19/2018 01:15 PMPosted by Mursey
08/19/2018 07:39 AMPosted by Ryfe
Cooldowns feel weak.


Disagree. Disc's big CDs are mitigation based, so they need to be used proactively, not retroactively to help recover. Once you get a better feel for when a tank has over pulled, or boss is about to pound the group, you'll get much more value from barrier and PS


Yep i have been having a lot of fun with Luminous barrier in mythics you can cheese some mechanics and make quite a few of the fights a lot easier.
08/19/2018 01:15 PMPosted by Mursey
08/19/2018 07:39 AMPosted by Ryfe
Cooldowns feel weak.


Disagree. Disc's big CDs are mitigation based, so they need to be used proactively, not retroactively to help recover. Once you get a better feel for when a tank has over pulled, or boss is about to pound the group, you'll get much more value from barrier and PS


You're assuming I'm using them incorrectly. I'm not.

Disc's CD feel compared to what other healers have, specifically MW and Rdruid from what I've tested. Flourishing a Tranq vs Barrier or LM? lol.

08/19/2018 10:09 AMPosted by Ssyzygy
not sure why ppl say single target healing/shadowmend is bad

shadowmend is like the strongest "flash heal" in the game if you use it on a target who is actively taking damage


This used to be the case in Legion which is likely when you heard it but it's not true anymore.

My issue with SM isn't its strength anyway, it's that spamming 1 button 200 times in a dungeon mindlessly and ignoring the rest of your kit isn't fun.
08/19/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Ryfe
This used to be the case in Legion which is likely when you heard it but it's not true anymore.

My issue with SM isn't its strength anyway, it's that spamming 1 button 200 times in a dungeon mindlessly and ignoring the rest of your kit isn't fun.


and where have you heard it isn't? comparing similar "flash heal" spells shows me shadowmend still has the highest spellpower coefficient of 180%. please show your source

coming from healing 5 mythics just now with relative ease, they involved much more than spamming shadowmend. sometimes high damage goes out and that's all you can do, and that is perfectly ok, because that is literally what the spell is designed to do. to be an emergency heal to stabilize your allies at critical moments. assuming your group doesnt ignore every single mechanic however, you are free to do much more than spam shadowmend

if i could make some suggestions, take twist of fate if you haven't already tried it. such an incredibly strong talent for progression in difficult and current content. this alone is a game changer. again, if you haven't already tried them, select healing focused azerite traits as opposed to damaging ones (these do not count towards atonement healing). your helm for example, which i also have, has TWO fantastic radiance traits that will significantly increase your aoe healing potential
Disc. Everything is fun and I feel active and busy. But when someone messes up and gets hit hard, I feel like I lose control of the situation. If I’m shadow mending, my mana bar is just being destroyed.

I’ve played a lot of healers throughout the different expansions. Disc, at least for me, has been the most challenging. It feels good, though.
08/19/2018 09:38 PMPosted by Ssyzygy
08/19/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Ryfe
This used to be the case in Legion which is likely when you heard it but it's not true anymore.

My issue with SM isn't its strength anyway, it's that spamming 1 button 200 times in a dungeon mindlessly and ignoring the rest of your kit isn't fun.


and where have you heard it isn't? comparing similar "flash heal" spells shows me shadowmend still has the highest spellpower coefficient of 180%. please show your source


Look at sp% coefficients, give a Rdruid, MW and Disc 500 haste, mastery and crit (or whatever values you like) then look at how much %sp healing spamming SM does compared to Soothing + Enveloping or HoTs + Regrowth or whatever combinations are practical.

Add in talents if you like too. Shadowmend throughput is decent but it's not top dog anymore. Other healers can push about double the throughput on a single target that Disc can and that's assuming there is no throughput lost to the damage component of Shadowmend. Twist of Fate helps narrow that gap but not by much. FWIW I haven't looked at Rsham or Hpal yet in this regard but I imagine Earth Shield + Healing Surge is big boy single target healing.

In Legion we had Grace which was a straight up 30% buff to SM. Now we have Mastery which functions the same but is slightly weaker for the sake of Shadowmend due to being able to stack Crit/Haste in Legion and have a flat 30% buff. Now we have to stack Mastery to achieve a similar buff which means less stat budget for Crit/Haste or we stack Crit/Haste and have a weaker buff.

Numbers aside though, I don't find SM spam enjoyable. The rest of Discs kit I like (apart from Rapture's GCD).
im not really trying to play this apples and oranges comparison of which classes does the most flat out single target healing, obviously if you factor in other abilities and masteries other classes trump us in pure single target throughput

what i am trying to say is shadowmend is more than adequate as a single target heal in a dungeon. if your target is dying through shadowmend spam, someone is ignoring a mechanic that they shouldn't be. and if they are, pain suppression to deal with it. not a weak CD, at all.

seems like you just don't enjoy having to spam shadowmend but i can tell you rshams are probably spamming healing surge to keep tanks up, hpals are spamming flash of light, holy priests are spamming flash heal, etc. that is not all they do and that is not all disc can do either
Until people learn the mechanics I am going to stay as holy for healing dungeons. I leveled as disc and healed almost every dungeon on normal mode as disc. I never had a complete wipe but things got messy a few times when a dps or two died by mechanics.

I had better luck healing with castigation, contrition, divine star, lenience and solace. I used disc defensively 40% of the time and finding decent use of contrition. If 3 of 5 of your party got hit with a random avoidable aoe and sitting at 20% hp plus knocked back into another mob pull, I would.. radiance > defensive penance > solace > divine star. That would recover about 30-40% of everyone's hp getting them back to safe hp levels.

As disc, I found that you have to be comfortable not having everyone at 100% all the time. They take a big hit, but expect them to not take another big hit for 20 seconds allowing you time to slowly dps heal them back up.

Meanwhile as holy, you can be half afk and never let anyone below 80% hp or if they do then you instantly top them off. I just sit on my holy wards and use them for emergencies. I have yet to have a problem on any dungeon yet. My brother who is tank even notices how his hp stays above 90% for 99% of the dungeon.

TLDR: holy is faceroll and disc you have to really pay attention
I cleared all the mythics this week with minimal wipes (with the exception of KR because I haven't ground out that rep yet) and I did them all as Disc. Here's my HONEST opinion.

1) Disc has a far more enjoyable kit than holy. (My opinion.)
2) If specced correctly there are very few situations where I struggled. One that sticks out is the 3 sisters fight in Waycrest Manor. The debuffs on that fight are very difficult to recover from as Disc. Our AoE healing isn't terrible, but it isn't our strong point either.
3) Halo is a dangerous spell. The damage component can and will pull unwanted trash packs if you use it with bad positioning. I recommend Divine Star instead.
4) Divine Star - Using this after a Power Word: Radiance is a very large burst of AoE healing if you can hit several of your group members AND the trash you are fighting.
5) Mana CAN become an issue if you have to resort to using shadowmend spam, which you will at some point. I specced into Mindbender for these situations but I am considering solace for the extra damage button + mana recovery
6) Gear makes a world of difference. I am currently at 331 ilvl and am having a much easier time now that I am not as undergeared as before. My SM is critting for around 32-35k. If I get off an offensive Penance I am healing for around 5k-8k per tick. I am seriously considering castigation for now, but schism really is just too good for an AoE burst situation.
7) Luminous Barrier feels VERY weak. Even used proactively the absorb is not large enough to justify a 3 minute c/d. Hoping to see this fixed.
8) USE RAPTURE ON CD, especially on trash packs. It's only a 1 min c/d and the absorbs that are applied can be friggin huge. A 35k absorb shield on a tank is a large amount of mitigation that can be used to top off the rest of your group.
9) Pain Suppression is still one of, if not THE best, single target mitigation in the game. I suppose Life Cocoon is also in that category.
10) Yes, I feel like I need to work harder in disc to keep my group healthy than I do in Holy. Holy feels overall better in AoE healing situations and is probably a better "pure" healer, but being able to output an additional 3-5k dps on the boss is a very valuable tool.

Anyway, that's my honest opinion on Disc right now. We've already been hit by the nerf bat once pre-xpac and if they tune us down any further to appease the War Mode crowd, we may become unviable in PvE. If that happens I suppose I'll go back to holy but for now, Disc is just way too fun.
I split about 50/50 disc shadow the defensive penance build is very easy and even using shadow covenant can be an easy way to stabilize the group.

I'm finding luminous barrier to be very good for certain mechanics and extra stabilize for aoe.

I find twist of fate to be very powerful but too hard to proc safely. I tend to run schism and try to compete with DPS.
08/17/2018 12:16 PMPosted by Anistole
08/17/2018 05:21 AMPosted by Sacredote
Disc will be easier for learning new dungeons etc. We underestimate how good absorption and damage reduction is. Plus, throwing out atonements and using penance defensively is so damn good for AOE healing.


I would not say that's true... you need to stop posting so much on these forums and wait until you're level 120. A shield lasts for one hit from trash. No, no one is underestimating how "good" absorption is. Most people at 120 are only using PW:S to get atonement on the target - not to absorb any damage.

It's very hard to catch up on any healing as disc right now if anyone besides the tank is taking damage (outside of having a radiance+mindbender off of cooldown). Unfortunately, that is very often. Especially on trash pulls.


git gud
I cleared all the mythics this week with minimal wipes (with the exception of KR because I haven't ground out that rep yet) and I did them all as Disc. Here's my HONEST opinion.

6) Gear makes a world of difference. I am currently at 331 ilvl and am having a much easier time now that I am not as undergeared as before. My SM is critting for around 42-50k. If I get off an offensive Penance I am healing for around 5k-8k per tick. I am seriously considering castigation for now, but schism really is just too good for an AoE burst situation.
8) USE RAPTURE ON CD, especially on trash packs. It's only a 1 min c/d and the absorbs that are applied can be friggin huge. A 65k absorb shield on a tank is a large amount of mitigation that can be used to top off the rest of your group.
9) Pain Suppression is still one of, if not THE best, single target mitigation in the game. I suppose Life Cocoon is also in that category.


These number seem extremely exaggerated; My Ilvl is currently at 327 which isn't too far off from your 331. My shadowmends crit for around 20-25K and Power Word Shield has a base absorb of around 9-10k... even with rapture this is 30k tops, 65k is a stretch, especially when most tanks have 150k-200k life.
08/20/2018 08:13 AMPosted by Xall
I cleared all the mythics this week with minimal wipes (with the exception of KR because I haven't ground out that rep yet) and I did them all as Disc. Here's my HONEST opinion.

6) Gear makes a world of difference. I am currently at 331 ilvl and am having a much easier time now that I am not as undergeared as before. My SM is critting for around 42-50k. If I get off an offensive Penance I am healing for around 5k-8k per tick. I am seriously considering castigation for now, but schism really is just too good for an AoE burst situation.
8) USE RAPTURE ON CD, especially on trash packs. It's only a 1 min c/d and the absorbs that are applied can be friggin huge. A 65k absorb shield on a tank is a large amount of mitigation that can be used to top off the rest of your group.
9) Pain Suppression is still one of, if not THE best, single target mitigation in the game. I suppose Life Cocoon is also in that category.


These number seem extremely exaggerated; My Ilvl is currently at 327 which isn't too far off from your 331. My shadowmends crit for around 20-25K and Power Word Shield has a base absorb of around 9-10k... even with rapture this is 30k tops, 65k is a stretch, especially when most tanks have 150k-200k life.


Fixed the SM numbers, just ran testing. I ran them unbuffed so I used that number. I haven't had a chance to test my Rapture shield crits yet.
I strictly play as Holy because of the "OH !@#!" buttons.

Sometimes mistakes happen, and as Holy I can clean them up. I feel it gives me a lot more maneuverability and utility to save a group from imminent death if a mistake is made.

On the other-hand, with Disc, mistakes can be the difference between a wipe and a save.

I'm not sure why people just assume Holy is 100% healbot, because when my group is doing fine I can add DPS with Holy Fire and Smite spam and add to DPS while saving my emergency cooldowns.

So far, I've been able to save groups that would have died with a Disc healer, so I think its worth it. The only wipes I've had so far are with extra add pulls or tanks trying to bite off more than they can chew.

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