BfA Feral Feedback (cont'd)

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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As for a possible solution for Bloodtalons: Each application of FB applies a % buff to the next TF, up to 3 stacks.
very glad of these changes. good stuff yo. bit late been stacking so much haste but the buffs put a smile on my face. well done, i dont mind changing the gear.

bit skeptical on the bloodtalons , perhaps it could act like a ysera's gift? and randomly heal the lowest hp ally member beside us within a specific range?

for the aoe finisher it should be something that shouldn't be worth using in a ST situation. so possibly if it could detect if multiple targets have thrash on them it activates and it temporarily enhances the bleed. think of it kind of like a savage roar only for thrash bleeds, possibly even refreshing the duration/pandemic. it will be another thing in the long line of things to keep track off but i feel it will be relevant enough to even see fair use in a multiple target scenario. I think this will be decent since we arent meant to do great AoE. Further thoughts is that the enhanced bleed should be equivalent to a 5cp Bite only when there is 4 targets with thrash dot .
Honestly, I understand the sentiment from players who want Bloodtalons removed in its current iteration, but I'd love for it to be reworked. There is some gameplay that's certainly worth preserving there.

I'd also love it if there was a talent or some mechanic that incentivized swapping forms in some capacity to add a buff or increase damage in your rotation.

Imagine something like swapping to Bear Form gives you Strength of the Bear, increasing the damage of your next three Shreds by X / granting X health

Now, this is just a random design thought so I'm sure that'll get a few diehards to jump down my throat about all the ways that could never work and why I should feel bad for even suggesting it, but I figured I'd put it out there anyway :)
I praise the development team for these changes. This is the right track for Feral and seems to help solve a lot of our current issues. Also I have to vote against BT remaining, though if it were to remain, it would need a huge rework. Good job Blizzard!
Something that is sticking with me since the last Q&A is the comment from Ion about World Quests and how much of a gap existed between players that were using an addon to perform faster and better than those players that either didnt join groups or simply didnt use the easy to use addon.

Now I ask, usage of addons is practically mandatory for Feral druids, and the gap between those that use them to track the strength of their abilities perform much better than those that do not.
Is this not contradictory in term of your philosophy? This contradiction only exists with the usage of Bloodtalons in its current form (or possibly any form of it that is SO massive of a snapshotting mechanic).

While I despise Bloodtalons in its current form for reasons I have explained in previous posts in the other thread, and I would rejoice with the announcement of its removal. I am not asking for an oversimplification of the spec. You can see this however you like, just thought it was important to bring up.
08/29/2018 06:46 PMPosted by Akusalol
I'm guessing there is either a really outspoken feral player on the dev team or someone's girlfriend plays feral?
if that was the case we wouldn't be at the bottom with spriest
I'm not 100% convinced this is even a buff. Nerfing the effective haste they get from the stat is going to feel bad even with higher energy regen. If it's balanced in a way that they can finally stack a bit of extra crit would be nice assuming the math adds up.

I'm also not seeing this change pulling feral out of the dumpster it's in currently. Thrashes damage getting reduced just so it doesn't become part of the ST rotation is idiotic. Other classes have AoE abilities in their ST rotation and it's never been an issue. Mage orb, DH Blade dance and eye beam, WW FoF, etc. Why not just buff the dot damage instead so that it wouldn't be worth spamming it instead of shred, but would still be worth keeping up.

Berserk being 5s longer is also irrelevant. It still is awful for a 3min CD. Last I checked without using the CD it was like a 30 dps loss not to press the button as it only equated to about 5 shreds. 5s longer doesn't make a garbage 3min cd any less garbage. It needs to be changed. Either give it a damage increase or make it effect haste or something. Anything has got to be better than the vanilla adrenaline rush copy.

The best part about this entire post was the looking to the future part. Looking to change the fact that they only have 4 talent rows of throughput talents is a nice nod to part of the problem. Bloodtalons, though I did enjoy it's playstyle, would probably benefit from not even being in the game anymore as the player base is too split on it. Make a different ability that isn't so punishing, but does something similar. Not tied to a proc and gives moments of glory rather than punishing players for messing up even one time. That is the #1 issue with feral. You either play it perfectly to get meh damage, or one mistake causes it to plummet and that's not fun for the majority of people.

I mained feral from BC to most of Legion and jumped ship after months of Beta testing left us in the same spot we were at the beginning of legion (which meant it reverted all the 7.3 changes) thus making the spec a detrement in content such as M+. I know that I and many others do not want to be known as a Meme spec so I had no choice but to change classes. I hope those of you sticking through this rough time get something truly amazing, you have more guts than I!
08/29/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Rockford
Each application of FB applies a % buff to the next TF, up to 3 stacks.


No. FB should not be something that Ferals should be using more often. DD Feral needs to go die in a fire, preferably by removing the talents that facilitate the playstyle and shoving 90% of the spec's damage into rake/rip/AAs.
First, thank you for the post. It's nice to know the thoughts regarding the future of Feral. In that regard, I'm glad we agree on Bloodtalons. My personal thoughts on the matter: Bloodtalons must be destroyed with extreme prejudice. Casting regrowth for a damage buff has always felt like the oddest way to get a damage boost as a cat. Imagine a warrior picking up a bucket of water, dumping it over his head, and getting +25% damage to his next rampage because he was wet. Kitty gets extra powerful because a magic leaf fills him with confidence...while he mercilessly shreds away at his enemies with his claws and blood stained teeth.

I've played feral for a long time now. One thing I've always hated isn't how 1 hiccup, whether because of being bad or because of a parry/dodge, whatever it may be, can hurt your dps not just on a larger scale than every other spec, but for much longer as well, but that we get nothing in return. It is unforgiving. The mechanics of various fights exacerbate this problem tenfold.

I'm tired of playing the most complex spec and being penalized for it. There is no risk/reward with feral. It's just risk. You do mid-range damage, at the high risk of screwing up and doing the worst. If I'm doing twice the work, at least make sure I'm getting something out of it, outside of stampeding roar...otherwise the thought continues to invade the minds of raiders everywhere: "Why do all this work for so-so damage when I can do half the work for top damage and utility?"

In a perfect world, that wouldn't matter. But when 19 other people's time is on the line, they may just get rid of the guy that enjoys playing feral. Because why take a chance? Why settle for complex and peasant-like when you can go with simple and godlike?
08/29/2018 07:00 PMPosted by Morthra
08/29/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Rockford
Each application of FB applies a % buff to the next TF, up to 3 stacks.


No. FB should not be something that Ferals should be using more often. DD Feral needs to go die in a fire, preferably by removing the talents that facilitate the playstyle and shoving 90% of the spec's damage into rake/rip/AAs.


Morthra, I've seen you say this in like...5 or 6 threads over the course of the past week. I gotta ask...who hurt you?
So is this even a buff? How big was that haste nerf?
08/29/2018 05:33 PMPosted by Seph
The goal is easier ramp-up time in AOE situations, while avoiding causing Thrash to be added to the single target rotation (since it's close to Shred's Energy to damage ratio), which we think wouldn’t make for a better overall rotation.


Wait, then why does Wild Fleshrending (+a lot of Shred/tiny bit of Swipe damage on targets affected by Thrash) exist as an Azerite Power?
08/29/2018 07:05 PMPosted by Kaelron
08/29/2018 07:00 PMPosted by Morthra
...

No. FB should not be something that Ferals should be using more often. DD Feral needs to go die in a fire, preferably by removing the talents that facilitate the playstyle and shoving 90% of the spec's damage into rake/rip/AAs.


Morthra, I've seen you say this in like...5 or 6 threads over the course of the past week. I gotta ask...who hurt you?
Yeah, their posts certainly have a trend to them. Hilariously binary without any thought to the overall health of the spec ;)
Guys there is a big knife in the present K?

Remove cat form’s 40% bonus to auto-attack damage?
Currently auto attacks is representing 20-21% of our total damage, take out the 40% bonus meaning a direct 8% loss to overall DPs.

Guys you better hope that other changes compensate that gap.

They give us something, but also will nerf a major damage dealer.

This is more like a damage composition change, not a DPS fix, no damage increase to our spells in on the way.

You know what's worse than current situation?
You got to press buttons more frequently to maintain current DPS.

This cat forms bonus should never be removed.
Plus, 5CP bleed should hurt much much more than a CP generator.
08/29/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Zakazim
Please make Bloodtalons optional instead of mandatory if you plan to keep it. It's the entire reason I no longer play Feral. It's so insanely counterintuitive, both in terms of gameplay and in terms of just in-game logic-y stuff. How does magically healing someone magically make my enemies bleed more? Because it's magic is the only possible answer, which is very lame.


Nobody is forcing you to run bloodtalons.. There are other talents on the tier that are competitive if you don't prefer its playstyle.

There are a high amount of feral players that play this spec strictly for it, BT feels very rewarding to play properly and is an iconic part of the spec.
08/29/2018 06:16 PMPosted by Ny
Please dont change the mechanics of Bloodtalons. It's one of my favourite things about the rotation and adds, what i feel like, is something of use to the group beyond pure dps.


There are many other ways to give Feral group utility and support that don't involve this abomination of a talent.
All of this looked great until the -25% haste. I understand that the hidden modifier needs to be removed so we can scale normally, but I'm not confident in the strength of the buff in light of it. I'll wait to see how it plays out before I get excited. Do appreciate that we are getting some attention here, as the swipe/thrash/BS buffs were wildly insufficient.
08/29/2018 07:12 PMPosted by Zakazim
08/29/2018 06:16 PMPosted by Ny
Please dont change the mechanics of Bloodtalons. It's one of my favourite things about the rotation and adds, what i feel like, is something of use to the group beyond pure dps.


There are many other ways to give Feral group utility and support that don't involve this abomination of a talent.


It isn't about that, its about feeling as though you're actually doing something to empower your bleeds or finisher while simultaneously being able to heal (you're directly affecting your DPS). I like being able to empower abilities, it feels meaningful. Again, there are other talents on the row, nobody is holding you hostage forcing you take take BT.
08/29/2018 07:08 PMPosted by Rockford
08/29/2018 07:05 PMPosted by Kaelron
...

Morthra, I've seen you say this in like...5 or 6 threads over the course of the past week. I gotta ask...who hurt you?
Yeah, their posts certainly have a trend to them. Hilariously binary without any thought to the overall health of the spec ;)


Like seriously, I understand wanting to emphasize the bleed aspects of Feral, I want that too, but "removing talents that facilitate direct damage" ? Like...what's the logical end to that? Just remove all Feral direct damage skills altogether? I just don't understand getting your Hello Kitty underoos (which I assume we all wear, right?) in a bind because you don't like Ferocious Bite.
08/29/2018 06:28 PMPosted by Rockford
I vote for the removal of Bloodtalons. It's a wretched mechanic that I always hated using. :)

Did we give the wrong feedback? Did we not test it enough? Were our Sims wrong? Blizzard's Sims wrong? What happened?
They probably received feedback from "everything is fine" Dreamgrove. Sure, those theory crafters are good players, but have complete binary views on how to improve a spec that desperately needs it.

All the discords are like that, most of the people in them just "circle jerk" each other and ignore the real issues.

08/29/2018 06:34 PMPosted by Rayen
08/29/2018 06:33 PMPosted by Sylver
Bloodtalons is the main reason I randomly switch to caster form because the buff wears out just before I get a chance to actually use it. Very, extremely annoying. Why not turn it into an attack that's only useable once it procs off a critical strike. Once you make the attack it also increases your next 2 attacks by 15% for their full duration.

Now you've got a proc that adds to the rotation, another attack, and I won't randomly be removed from Cat Form.


#showtooltip Regrowth
/console autounshift 0
/cast [help,nodead][@player]Regrowth
/console autounshift 1

Never pop out of cat form again.

Sometimes you do want to pop out of cat form to off-heal

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