Brennadam was a last minute change

Story Forum
Prev 1 4 5 6 12 Next
08/26/2018 11:52 AMPosted by Eliza
Jaina and later Alleria/Gelbin were "big damn heroes" moments. All of them have been part of the story for awhile now and them showing up isn't something out of the ordinary. It honestly is very in character for all of them to do that. Jaina vanishing in Legion was what was out of character for her.

Everyone seems to forget the power boost up Jaina's staff got in MOP by taking the Thunder King's power, which had in turn been taken from Ra-Den previously. Given its been known about for quite some time that would make it a "Chekhov's gun". Jaina's warbringers showed her getting the ship so that wasn't out of the blue.

I feel the issue is that BfL makes the alliance as a whole seem incompetent, as thay had no way to breach the walls or deal with blight. I would be fine with those two saving the alliance, but i feel that the alliance should have had a legit anti-blight strategy, overcoming the blight should have been a big hurrah moment.

Have someone else breach the walls and conteract the blight, then have jaina and alleria teleport you out of the exploding city as their big hero moment. Jaina having 3 makes the alliance as a whole seem a lot more incompetent and stupid.

But anyway on topic, i think the exact opposite reastion of what blizzard wanted alliance players to have resulted from brennadam. They wanted to make it seem more interesting, failing to realise alliance players have seen this exact same scenario... 4 or 5 times by this point? They want a full blown save the civilians victory against the horde, because despite the fact they always technically win, the victories are hollow because they are all super Pyrrhic and have a ton of innocents die.

They similtanously want to do war is hell stories combined with a super-hero narrative, the alliance gets the war is hell part, while the horde is made into supervillians. This ends with both sides feeling their being gimped.

That or blizzard thinks having a story that pisses people off because it's terrible is good because it gets an emotional response, failing to realize the difference between hating a good villain and hating the story as a whole.
I would argue that murdering Kul Tirans, raising them from the dead, and coercing them into betraying their homeland isn't a great look.

Part of the problem is simply Blizzard's botched, absurd timeline. The process of establishing a foothold in Kul Tiras begins around the same time Katherine stonewalls Jaina's request for aid and the Alliance champion is arrested.

At least the Alliance has the excuse of knowing Zandalar planned to work with the Horde from the beginning, since they captured Talanji and Zul on their way to parlay with Sylvanas.

The Horde has no excuse for invading Kul Tiras. Brennadam also takes place before Kul Tiras even considers siding with the Alliance, so the Horde isn't exactly on a scouting mission.


The Horde's excuse is the same as the Alliance's for invading Zandalar, that they're probably going to join the fight. Talanji wanted the Horde's help with the blood trolls, Jaina wanted Kul'Tiras to fight the Horde. If anything, it's the Alliance war campaign that will push Zandalar into the Horde. Zandalar doesn't even join the Horde like Kul'Tiras did for the Alliance.

I have no problem with killing Kul'Tiras military or raising them for intel. Where I draw the line is stupid massacres for no reason other than to rile up Alliance fanboys and let them slaughter Horde without feeling bad.

08/26/2018 06:09 AMPosted by Kazala
The Horde plan for the War of the Thorns was to blitzkrieg Ashenvale and Darkshore without provocation and hold the civilian population of Teldrassil hostage, hoping it would cause the Alliance to fracture so the Horde could take it apart piece by piece, with the end goal of invading Stormwind, where Sylvanas intended to allow the orcs to sate their bloodlust putting the entire city to the sword before she raised them all from the dead as a brand new generation of Forsaken.

What standards for "blatantly evil" are we using, here?

The best reason Sylvanas can give Saurfang for seeking the total annihilation of the Alliance is, "well, they could theoretically attack us someday".


The entire reason for the War of Thorns was that Anduin was a weak king that couldn't keep the Alliance from attacking the Horde in the middle of a Legion invasion. War was inevitable so she fought it on her terms instead of the Alliance's.

It's not perfect, but it acknowledges that Genn struck the first blow in Stormheim
08/26/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Treng
Dude we just came out of a strictly Alliance-Only expansion


This is pure trolling. All of Suramar is almost strictly a Horde story at this point, as only a Horde player could get any satisfaction out of that questing experience.

08/26/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Treng
where we did nothing but kill orcs.


Massive hyperbole as not only did we kill more than just Orcs, the vast majority of those Orcs had nothing to do with the Horde. Saying 'The Horde' as an entity somehow takes a loss because a non-affiliated orc dies is absurd, but I shouldn't expect much out of Horde whiners on this forum.
08/26/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Balloonfish
Isn't this the same logic that many try and use to say that Battle for Lordaeron wasn't an Alliance victory?


So what? What does that have to do with this discussion? If they're wrong, doesn't it also make the argument that this wasn't a victory for Horde also wrong?

Sure, sure cause Stormwinds prison has the complete Alliance´s military population, right?


Do you remember playing the scenario? Because you escape through the city and kill a bunch of Worgen and various other Alliance soldiers on the docks after they came back from Lordaeron.

Sure, sure, it wasn´t like those "ubber powerful" operatives had to hide like rats going into the cat´s den, amrite? (I mean if one as players isn´t careful one screws up the whole scenario dude)


"They didn't also slaughter the leadership so this means the Alliance won"

Zul´s deal dude


Horde free Zul as part of the pact. Zul sets Stormwind on fire. Stormwind is on fire because of Zul, because of the Horde.

Sure, sure cause Jaina´s words in the docks weren´t about how much screwed up the Horde "ubber powerful according to you" operatives, amrite? The operatives actually "won" basically by 2 deux ex: Zul´s actual skills -that again: aren´t Horde- and the coincidental proximity of the ships to Zandalar´s shores -which saved Talanji´s boat in the first place-.


I'm having a hard time parsing through your english here, but what I'm getting at is that because Jaina could've killed the Horde, but didn't, this means that the Horde lost because in the quantum sense they lost because in a theoretical fantasyland where Jaina just impales the entire Horde party with ice lances and then goes to save Stormwind means that this is true for this dimension as well.

I think there's a term involving gymnastics here.

08/26/2018 10:07 AMPosted by Ariël
For you people nothing short of total decimation and Horde leaders on their knees begging to be spared is an "actual loss". With such standards is obvious nothing will ever seem like a victory for you.


Don't you constantly argue about how poor and sad the Horde is because Blizzard is obviously biased against them for painting them as the villain? If that's the case how can you sit here and argue that the Horde has good motivations and that it feels good to be Horde and fight Alliance because the Alliance feel like an actual threat.

It speaks volumes about you that you argue against the Horde even losing anything in order to gain a motivation to fight Alliance. That is the kind of attitude I'm talking about that is present in the Horde writers.


Damn man. Post more.
08/26/2018 03:23 PMPosted by Relictor
Massive hyperbole as not only did we kill more than just Orcs, the vast majority of those Orcs had nothing to do with the Horde. Saying 'The Horde' as an entity somehow takes a loss because a non-affiliated orc dies is absurd, but I shouldn't expect much out of Horde whiners on this forum.
Presumably he's working off the Alliance players who declared WoD a Horde expansion because of the Orc focus, despite, of course, the fact it was all about fighting and kill them.

Regardless, while amusingly predictable the fact this thread went to more back and forth "BUT MY SIDE HAS IT WORSE" ridiculousness while I was asleep is absurd.
08/26/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Treng
Dude we just came out of a strictly Alliance-Only expansion


This is pure trolling. All of Suramar is almost strictly a Horde story at this point, as only a Horde player could get any satisfaction out of that questing experience.


That argument means that everything I did for Dalaran in Wrath magically became me being an Alliance quester in MoP and WoD. Content doesn't retroactively belong to a faction if a side later that faction. It was and remains the neutral content that you actually played through.

where we did nothing but kill orcs.


Massive hyperbole as not only did we kill more than just Orcs, the vast majority of those Orcs had nothing to do with the Horde.


WOW. You literally just claimed the exact opposite by insisting that Suramar was Horde content because Suramar ended up joining the Horde in another expansion.

Which one is it? They can't both be the case.
08/26/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Okagha
The Horde's excuse is the same as the Alliance's for invading Zandalar, that they're probably going to join the fight.
That assertion is based on nothing.

The Alliance knows that Talanji was seeking the aid of the Horde. They know that Talanji was escorted back to Zandalar by the Horde. They know that the Zandalari blew a bunch of their ships to smithereens without warning. Zandalar voluntarily dove headfirst into the middle of the faction conflict. The Alliance has every reason to engage with them.

Meanwhile, prior to the actions of the Alliance PC, the Kul Tirans have nothing but scorn for the Alliance, and Jaina is literally their public enemy number one. The Horde is given no reason whatsoever at any point to suggest a need for establishing bases in Kul Tiras. You just sort of go there. And you're late to the party... the nonsensical Warfang Hold, which already exists in a state of quantum flux because of the Brennadam fiasco, would have to have been established before the Horde set foot on Zandalar.

It doesn't actually make any sense. The Horde simply goes to Kul Tiras because it's the new expansion zone. Full stop. It would've been easy to provide an explanation, but an explanation wasn't provided.

It's fun to fill in the blanks with headcanon sometimes, but it's weird to do it without any self-awareness. I don't really understand the inclination to bend over backwards insisting Blizzard wrote in lore where they didn't. In this case, there's simply no 'there' there. The Horde has no reason to believe Kul Tiras will join the Alliance . It's not even clear how the Horde knows the Alliance is even trying to make that happen, and the Horde's actions on the island are enormously counterproductive if their goal is to see Kul Tiras remain neutral.

08/26/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Okagha
The entire reason for the War of Thorns was that Anduin was a weak king that couldn't keep the Alliance from attacking the Horde in the middle of a Legion invasion. War was inevitable so she fought it on her terms instead of the Alliance's.

It's not perfect, but it acknowledges that Genn struck the first blow in Stormheim
Please.

Stormheim is never used as the impetus for the invasion of Ashenvale. Ever. In any media. The factions are explicitly not at war coming out of Legion. It may not make sense to you, or to me. You may feel with every fiber of your being that an assassination attempt on the Warchief constitutes a clear act of war, and that it should be considered the opening salvo in this renewed conflict, but that's not what the writers went with.

Stormheim is mentioned once, in A Good War, and only in Saurfang's head. He recalls the incident when Sylvanas suggests that Anduin may consider starting a war in the future as long as Genn has his ear, and agrees that it's a possibility. That's it.

You're falling into the common trap of grasping for the first explanation that seems even vaguely palatable, and choosing to ignore the fact that it's not Word of God. The "cycle of hatred" garbage Sylvanas cooks up in A Good War isn't actually her reason for going to war. It's simply the rationale she uses to manipulate Saurfang into getting on board. We already know from BtS that what Sylvanas really wants is access to Stormwind's population for the purpose of creating a new generation of Forsaken.
All of Suramar is almost strictly a Horde story at this point
False. None of the characters in Suramar were Horde at the time of the storyline's content. That they are now does not retroactively make my experience pro-Horde.

Your comment is asinine and wrong.

08/26/2018 03:23 PMPosted by Relictor
Massive hyperbole as not only did we kill more than just Orcs, the vast majority of those Orcs had nothing to do with the Horde.
Killing Orcs is the heart cornerstone of the entire Alliance. Killing Orcs it not even a building block of the Horde.
The faction the Horde gains rep with in Kul Tiras is called The Honorbound.

While in Stormsong, I spotted a rare enemy on my map in Brennadam. I went to go check it out because I'm a map completionist. The rare was a doctor treating a bunch of wounded civilians in a basement. I killed the doctor and in the process I think I accidentally took out one or two of the wounded, too. Wow, such honor, such faction pride. I can't believe the Brennadam battle was a last minute change.

Papa Saurfang forgive me.
08/26/2018 12:20 PMPosted by Mordahn
Then answer me why this isn't the case then?


Because unlike the Alliance writing team, the Horde writing team didn't feel like randomly throwing the other faction under the bus as comical villains to fill in for a one-note evil NPC race at the last minute.

08/26/2018 12:20 PMPosted by Mordahn
Because your head is so far up your own !@#, sniffing this "THERE'S NO HORDE BIAS" stink that you can't see how well this turned out for Horde.


Have you even considered that something turning out well for the Horde doesn't equal Horde bias?

08/26/2018 12:20 PMPosted by Mordahn
Your HOR argument is laughably bad. Arthas didn't stop Jaina/Sylvanas and the heroes. He lost. "Yeah but he could've won," but he didn't. He lost.


So, yes, you are going to make the argument that the HoR, where the heroes are forced to flee for their lives from Arthas, was actually portraying Arthas as a loser and the heroes as powerful winners.

Newsflash: Someone can win and lose in different regards at the same time.
Because unlike the Alliance writing team, the Horde writing team didn't feel like randomly throwing the other faction under the bus as comical villains to fill in for a one-note evil NPC race at the last minute.


This is an expansion with the faction war as the primary backdrop. Horde have to feel like they have a reason to fight the Alliance.

Have you even considered that something turning out well for the Horde doesn't equal Horde bias?


you ever consider that the horde writing team might be biased for the horde like the alliance writers are biased for the alliance and maybe that's the reason why they chose two writing teams

08/26/2018 04:40 PMPosted by Veloran

Newsflash: Someone can win and lose in different regards at the same time.


So the Horde won here by accomplishing their objectives and killing a bunch of Alliance too without losing a single soldier, even the nameless forsaken goons. And the Alliance won because their leadership wasn't wiped out at the same time.

Your argument is !@#$ing stupid and here's why: Of course the Horde should not be on the front foot here. It's Stormwind, the absolute heart of Alliance territory. Both times the Alliance did this to the Horde the cities were in disarray.

But the Horde still accomplish what they set out to do, without losing anything. How the absolute %^-* can you spin this as not a win because "Well we might have gotten killed if we stayed in one place and got slaughtered by the entire city of Stormwind" unless you're arguing because you can't accept that the Horde writers are doing a terrible job at setting up compelling motivations for Horde to even want to fight the Alliance?

Oh, and by the way, one of the biggest criticisms of WOTLK is that they showed Arthas too much so that he appeared like a saturday morning cartoon character, complete with Dr.Claw voice. So yes, HOR is a terrible basis for your """""argument""""
08/26/2018 10:23 AMPosted by Eliza
The horde intro has the player go into the opposing faction's major city, free the Zandalari, and cause major havoc in the city.

The Alliance intro has the player taken hostage and being rescued by NPCs from a strictly NPC antagonist.


Honestly? No.

If you people look carefully, both questchain experiences started from opposite sides and ended on opposite sides.

You people started with "bad rep" but won everything and achieved everything you wanted A.K.A. an unified Kul´Tiras with 0 lasting issues backing Mama Jaina and yourselves. As expected for a "classical Hero" themathic.

We started with an escape won by 2 Deux Ex complete divorced from our power and we never achieved complete victories in Zandalar (as a matter of fact Zandalar has quite the big issue A.K.A. G´hunn incoming precisely cause we Hordies weren´t effective enough to prevent it; however this brings more potential story for us in the future)... as expected for the anti-hero underdog themathic most Horde players dig.

Nobody has it "worse"; both leveling experiences are clearly focused for the "purist" type of players in each faction.

Do you remember playing the scenario? Because you escape through the city and kill a bunch of Worgen and various other Alliance soldiers on the docks after they came back from Lordaeron.


Well, a "bunch" is clearly inferior to the "throngs" you were qqing about, dude... and still we were to be K.O. by Mama Jaina if not for Zul-the-actual-Prophet-who-btw-still-NOT-Horde.

This is what happens when people try to use intellectual dishonesty and blatant hyperbole to justify their agenda, dear... Horde weren´t the "Ubber powerful" individuals you are throwing a temper tantrum about, if anything it was a literal "miracle" the thing that saved them Horde NPCs and us PCs.

"They didn't also slaughter the leadership so this means the Alliance won"


Well, weren´t you guys complaining EXACTLY about this regarding BfL? That your "win" doesn´t count cause "muh Alliance leaders didn´t kill Sylvanus et al"?

Double standards much?

Btw... the goal was to take Talanji to Orgrimmar so the Undead Windrunner nutjob could manipulate things on her terms... guess what didn´t happen?

Horde free Zul as part of the pact.


Horde frees Zul cause he was standing next to Talanji and was the equivalent to her majordomo, nothing more and nothing less... (also... Talanji is STILL not Horde up until... right now actually. Zandalar is still a kingdom NOT affiliated to the Horde last time I saw; we´re merely... guest there).

but what I'm getting at is that because Jaina could've killed the Horde, but didn't, this means that the Horde lost because


You didn´t get anything. I simply pointed how the actual Horde operatives (Nathanos, Thalyssra, Rokhan, Lassan and the PC) were powerless at the end and not the "powerful spy team" you insisted they were.

Good spy teams win by proxy of their plans, not by literal Deux Ex like Zul burning stuff cause "visions" or Rezhan conveniently appearing to save Talanji´s royal butt at the shores of Zandalar (I mean how convenient the Alliance fleet decides to engage just around the corner of the Loa´s place of influence, don´t you think?)

08/26/2018 12:52 PMPosted by Mordahn
Don't you constantly argue about how poor and sad the Horde is because Blizzard is obviously biased against them for painting them as the villain? If that's the case how can you sit here and argue that the Horde has good motivations and that it feels good to be Horde and fight Alliance because the Alliance feel like an actual threat.


Were did I mention anything on that post regarding "Horde motivations to fight Alliance"? No seriously, quote me.

And he says I´m the one with poor grasp on the english language ffs...

Only thing I said was how nothing short of the most humiliating defeat is good enough for some to classify as a "victory" (cause it´s a fact: you won in SoO, you won in BfA... fact you couldn´t stick it to the Horde playerbase is irrelevant; lorewise Alliance won and that´s fact, period).

Forsaken players lost their capital as much as Nelf players did... one doesn´t count most that the other cause muh Bias, fact is both playerbases are put under the same conditions gameplay wise.

08/26/2018 12:52 PMPosted by Mordahn
It speaks volumes about you that you argue against the Horde even losing anything


I´ll tell you the same thing I told Zerde: wanna get the whole fcking maps painted blue? Go ahead, be my guest. Conquer every territory, at this point the land is irrelevant when the Horde characters drop like flies and are lost to villain beatings for reasons. I value much more my characters than the cities they stay AFK in.

In exchange I won´t have to see, heard not much less dealt with Alliance NPCs / NPCs belonging to Alliance races / NPCs with a former Alliance background EVER on my gameplay experience (yup no more debauchery like Dalaran was in Legion or babysitting Brann or having to stand Khadgar´s bad jokes nor having my incoming Zandalari Dudu playing messenger for Malfurion cause reasons nor anything remotely similar). Wanna know why Zandalar leveling experience is so praised even with players not achieving much victories on it?

Cause it was done follwing an entirely focused Horde themathic... no Alliance BS themathics hidden with the word "but muh neutral NPC/organization/whatever" like in Legion; in Zandalar the story is 200% Horde-like. And we loved it. We loved to help the trolls in dinoland and actually work in the benefit of our races following our Horde heroes for once IN YEARS.

I REFUSE to play another Legion nor much less another Argus with clearly Alliance NPCs insulting my characters to their face for a week for the lols -actually cause devs are lazy jerks that rather than make stories for both factions, basically put a FOTM Alliance hero in charge of the narrative and slap the word neutral over it-, tyvm.
The Alliance knows that Talanji was seeking the aid of the Horde. They know that Talanji was escorted back to Zandalar by the Horde. They know that the Zandalari blew a bunch of their ships to smithereens without warning. Zandalar voluntarily dove headfirst into the middle of the faction conflict. The Alliance has every reason to engage with them.


She's seeking the aid of the Horde to fight the blood trolls and she's not even the leader of Zandalar yet. The Alliance forced Zandalar into the faction conflict like the Horde forced Kul'Tiras into it. If they had just ignored Talanji, the PC wouldn't have been granted an audience with Rastakhan. Zandalar only attacks the Alliance ships to protect their princess, the same as literally every nation on Azeroth would do.

It doesn't actually make any sense. The Horde simply goes to Kul Tiras because it's the new expansion zone. Full stop. It would've been easy to provide an explanation, but an explanation wasn't provided.

It's fun to fill in the blanks with headcanon sometimes, but it's weird to do it without any self-awareness. I don't really understand the inclination to bend over backwards insisting Blizzard wrote in lore where they didn't. In this case, there's simply no 'there' there. The Horde has no reason to believe Kul Tiras will join the Alliance . It's not even clear how the Horde knows the Alliance is even trying to make that happen, and the Horde's actions on the island are enormously counterproductive if their goal is to see Kul Tiras remain neutral.


The Horde has plenty of reason to believe Kul'Tiras would at the very least help the Alliance. The killed Daelin and his army, have been dealing with Kul'Tirans in Durotar for ages, and now Jaina shows up flying a Kul'Tiran ship. Yeah they might hate Jaina and the Alliance for betraying them, but the for sure hate the Horde a lot more. Yeah sure, it's not spelled out in some quest where Sylvanas tells us her entire war plan because we see her for all of two quests.

The Horde has just as much reason to think Kul'Tiras will join the Alliance as the Alliance does for Zandalar joining the Horde. By the end of the war campaign Zandalar still isn't part of the Horde and the Alliance is planting bombs on their ships and planning a full scale invasion.

08/26/2018 04:16 PMPosted by Kazala
Please.

Stormheim is never used as the impetus for the invasion of Ashenvale. Ever. In any media. The factions are explicitly not at war coming out of Legion. It may not make sense to you, or to me. You may feel with every fiber of your being that an assassination attempt on the Warchief constitutes a clear act of war, and that it should be considered the opening salvo in this renewed conflict, but that's not what the writers went with.

Stormheim is mentioned once, in A Good War, and only in Saurfang's head. He recalls the incident when Sylvanas suggests that Anduin may consider starting a war in the future as long as Genn has his ear, and agrees that it's a possibility. That's it.


Stormheim and Genn's lack of punishment is exactly why Saurfang and by extension the Kalimdor Horde go along with the invasion of Ashenvale. War of Thorns does not happen without Stormheim. At best Sylvanas could drag the Horde into a resource war in Silithus. Whatever her grand plan, she would have needed another way to get the Horde to follow her to war.

Before a Good War this forum was begging for Stormheim to be used as a reason for the Horde starting the war. Now that it is people are acting like it didn't matter. Horde players have been given enough reasons for this war, all we need now is for blizz to stop dragging the Horde through the mud for Alliance players to have even more reasons than they already had.
08/26/2018 08:07 AMPosted by Kazala
I've never seen a single actual person express a positive reaction to the D3 story.
I never quite understood everyone's complaints with it, personally. I was never a Diablo purist, granted. But I did waste hundreds of hours kicking demons to death on D2. Yet I never saw D3 as worthy to raise riots over. I played it all throughout its early run and well into Reaper of Souls.

So there you go. You found a person.
08/26/2018 01:53 PMPosted by Reallyhappy
But anyway on topic, i think the exact opposite reastion of what blizzard wanted alliance players to have resulted from brennadam. They wanted to make it seem more interesting, failing to realise alliance players have seen this exact same scenario... 4 or 5 times by this point? They want a full blown save the civilians victory against the horde, because despite the fact they always technically win, the victories are hollow because they are all super Pyrrhic and have a ton of innocents die.


Got the nail on the head. At least for me. Moment I saw the orc with the parachute, my reaction was "Ugh. Here we go again." After seeing so many Alliance civilians die pointlessly brutal deaths for shock value, the only reaction I can muster is irritation. Not at the horde, but at the writers.

Even by the end, after Warsong hold was torched, I didn't feel very vindicated at all. City was still burnt, civilians died in the dozens, and I just want to go back to punching tentacle monsters and pretend that this never happened and the horde doesn't exist.
People keep saying that why would blizz make Rexxar do that but Rexxar was recruited by the horde champion so would no be there during the attack or depending on when you get there he arrived after the attack.

Either way he was not in charge of warfang he just help set it up.
08/26/2018 04:46 PMPosted by Mordahn
This is an expansion with the faction war as the primary backdrop. Horde have to feel like they have a reason to fight the Alliance.


Yes, but the Horde dev team hasn't chosen to do that by making the Alliance into evil caricatures in Horde questing, while the Alliance dev team has.

08/26/2018 04:46 PMPosted by Mordahn
you ever consider that the horde writing team might be biased for the horde like the alliance writers are biased for the alliance and maybe that's the reason why they chose two writing teams


Except, again, the Horde writing team doesn't manipulate the Alliance's own character in order to make them look worse.

08/26/2018 04:46 PMPosted by Mordahn
So the Horde won here by accomplishing their objectives and killing a bunch of Alliance too without losing a single soldier, even the nameless forsaken goons. And the Alliance won because their leadership wasn't wiped out at the same time.


No, the Horde won by fulfilling their objectives, and lost by being presented as ineffectual weaklings compared to the Alliance leaders. And the Alliance lost by not stopping the Horde team, but won by making them look weak compared to their own characters.

08/26/2018 04:46 PMPosted by Mordahn
Oh, and by the way, one of the biggest criticisms of WOTLK is that they showed Arthas too much so that he appeared like a saturday morning cartoon character, complete with Dr.Claw voice. So yes, HOR is a terrible basis for your """""argument""""


Except A, the HoR was actually an example of a good appearance by Arthas in Wrath, and B, the Alliance leadership doesn't constantly show up in Horde questing like Arthas did in Wrath. This was meant as an introductory moment to instill fear of the threat they pose.
08/26/2018 01:05 AMPosted by Seiryu
08/26/2018 01:00 AMPosted by Kazala
This is one of those things that Blizzard just won't comment on for a couple years and then blame internal miscommunication ala Stonetalon.

This is one of those things where the Alliance quest team is more willing to throw the other faction under the bus than the Horde quest team.

There is NOTHING like this on the Horde island.
maybe the horde quest team should throw the alliance under the bus
08/26/2018 01:05 AMPosted by Seiryu
08/26/2018 01:00 AMPosted by Kazala
This is one of those things that Blizzard just won't comment on for a couple years and then blame internal miscommunication ala Stonetalon.

This is one of those things where the Alliance quest team is more willing to throw the other faction under the bus than the Horde quest team.

There is NOTHING like this on the Horde island.
When the Alliance show up on the Horde islands, even then they are victims of Horde aggression. Dwarves find an artifact, KILL THEM AND LOOT THEIR FINDS. Shipwrecked Alliance are trying to survive, KILL THEM ALL AND DESTROY THEIR ONLY MEANS OF ESCAPE!
08/26/2018 04:16 PMPosted by Kazala
08/26/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Okagha
The Horde's excuse is the same as the Alliance's for invading Zandalar, that they're probably going to join the fight.
That assertion is based on nothing.

The Alliance knows that Talanji was seeking the aid of the Horde. They know that Talanji was escorted back to Zandalar by the Horde. They know that the Zandalari blew a bunch of their ships to smithereens without warning. Zandalar voluntarily dove headfirst into the middle of the faction conflict. The Alliance has every reason to engage with them.

Meanwhile, prior to the actions of the Alliance PC, the Kul Tirans have nothing but scorn for the Alliance, and Jaina is literally their public enemy number one. The Horde is given no reason whatsoever at any point to suggest a need for establishing bases in Kul Tiras. You just sort of go there. And you're late to the party... the nonsensical Warfang Hold, which already exists in a state of quantum flux because of the Brennadam fiasco, would have to have been established before the Horde set foot on Zandalar.

It doesn't actually make any sense. The Horde simply goes to Kul Tiras because it's the new expansion zone. Full stop. It would've been easy to provide an explanation, but an explanation wasn't provided.

It's fun to fill in the blanks with headcanon sometimes, but it's weird to do it without any self-awareness. I don't really understand the inclination to bend over backwards insisting Blizzard wrote in lore where they didn't. In this case, there's simply no 'there' there. The Horde has no reason to believe Kul Tiras will join the Alliance . It's not even clear how the Horde knows the Alliance is even trying to make that happen, and the Horde's actions on the island are enormously counterproductive if their goal is to see Kul Tiras remain neutral.

08/26/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Okagha
The entire reason for the War of Thorns was that Anduin was a weak king that couldn't keep the Alliance from attacking the Horde in the middle of a Legion invasion. War was inevitable so she fought it on her terms instead of the Alliance's.

It's not perfect, but it acknowledges that Genn struck the first blow in Stormheim
Please.

Stormheim is never used as the impetus for the invasion of Ashenvale. Ever. In any media. The factions are explicitly not at war coming out of Legion. It may not make sense to you, or to me. You may feel with every fiber of your being that an assassination attempt on the Warchief constitutes a clear act of war, and that it should be considered the opening salvo in this renewed conflict, but that's not what the writers went with.

Stormheim is mentioned once, in A Good War, and only in Saurfang's head. He recalls the incident when Sylvanas suggests that Anduin may consider starting a war in the future as long as Genn has his ear, and agrees that it's a possibility. That's it.

You're falling into the common trap of grasping for the first explanation that seems even vaguely palatable, and choosing to ignore the fact that it's not Word of God. The "cycle of hatred" garbage Sylvanas cooks up in A Good War isn't actually her reason for going to war. It's simply the rationale she uses to manipulate Saurfang into getting on board. We already know from BtS that what Sylvanas really wants is access to Stormwind's population for the purpose of creating a new generation of Forsaken.


Nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I really enjoy some of your posts.
They are unapologetically Horde, witty yet reasonable.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum