Brennadam was a last minute change

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This has been going on since Cata, it's only metastasizing now.

Horde gets a power trip securing Northern Lordaeron. Alliance gets an unfinished mess in Westfall about a CSI parody nobody asked for and Redridge being saved by Human Potential meme characters, with the PC being reduced to a spectator.

Horde players get to nuke the Alliance out of 2 regions, Stonetalon and later Theramore, as well as nuke the coastal town of Southshore to oblivion (Southshore! The Alliance port town who literally had an entire quest chain devoted how to how non of a threat it is to anyone!)

Orgrimmar gets redecorated, Stormwind takes 10 years to rebuild Deathwing's claw marks.

Horde gets an epic conclusion to their civil war storyline, Alliance gets a robot cat and the chance to be lectured by Vol'jin for being useful idiots to the Horde's war effort pre-SoO patch.

The Horde will inevitably get some self-congratulatory story arc where they learn the values of not being genocidal mass murderers, and the Alliance will lose even more territory and generals/key NPCs before that happens. Ffs Admiral Taylor, the best thing to come out of Cataclysm and Mists, was killed off solely due to faction parity because someone in the Blizz storyteam couldn't handle leaving the Alliance with memorable characters besides the faction leaders, and Rogers I guess.

I don't think Blizzard has faction bias. I just think they're idiots who rely on increasingly predictable plots that involve the Horde becoming evil and the Alliance becoming pants-on-head retarded in order for conflict to happen. The Alliance wasn't allowed to even "win" SoL. They are constantly btfo by epix battlemaster Sylvanas and only saved by olympian-level gods. That's not a win. It's capesh*t mixed with a depressing/grim war story.

Brennadam is just more of the same. Horde, the faction, enjoying being WC2 esque monsters, and the Alliance being idiots. Alex or Ion really s*it the bed on this. Was Kosak rehired or writing through a proxy? Is that the reason this faction conflict feels so terrible?
08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
Horde gets a power trip securing Northern Lordaeron. Alliance gets an unfinished mess in Westfall about a CSI parody nobody asked for and Redridge being saved by Human Potential meme characters, with the PC being reduced to a spectator.
Cherry pickin'.

08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
Horde players get to nuke the Alliance out of 2 regions, Stonetalon and later Theramore, as well as nuke the coastal town of Southshore to oblivion (Southshore! The Alliance port town who literally had an entire quest chain devoted how to how non of a threat it is to anyone!)
Because the Alliance has always had more landclaimed for questing than the Horde did, since vanilla. Cataclysm remade the maps for parity and balance. So you see, the problem is the exact opposite of what you're implying. The Alliance had more than the Horde and it was imbalanced in favor of the Alliance, so Cataclysm fixed that bias.

08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
Orgrimmar gets redecorated, Stormwind takes 10 years to rebuild Deathwing's claw marks.
Stormwind is still almost three times the size of Orgrimmar.

08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
Horde gets an epic conclusion to their civil war storyline, Alliance gets a robot cat and the chance to be lectured by Vol'jin for being useful idiots to the Horde's war effort pre-SoO patch.
Your one single solitary patch was our entire Legion expansion.
08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
This has been going on since Cata, it's only metastasizing now.
Nyes, I'm sure a questline where they are portrayed as pure evil monsters that bomb puppies that is only ever seen by the Alliance player and is not mentioned in any of their own storylines was totally for the benefit of the Horde player.
I feel like the problem is the divide between game play and story. One favors the Horde and the other the Alliance. When it comes to game play yes I agree the Alliance might have it better with how many quests they get to slay horde for provoking them. Now on the other side when it comes to story the Alliance suffers because almost everything they do is a reaction to horde provocations. Almost every Alliance victory involves the horde doing something bad and then they overcome it. However the victory is always temporary with no long term solution to the horde problem because eventually the horde does something else and the cycle starts again. So when it comes to story it really feels like all the alliance is doing is losing and then regaining what they lost, there is never a moment of wow we actually did more than simply get back what we lost.
08/26/2018 03:23 PMPosted by Relictor
08/26/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Treng
Dude we just came out of a strictly Alliance-Only expansion


This is pure trolling. All of Suramar is almost strictly a Horde story at this point, as only a Horde player could get any satisfaction out of that questing experience.

08/26/2018 12:59 PMPosted by Treng
where we did nothing but kill orcs.


Massive hyperbole as not only did we kill more than just Orcs, the vast majority of those Orcs had nothing to do with the Horde. Saying 'The Horde' as an entity somehow takes a loss because a non-affiliated orc dies is absurd, but I shouldn't expect much out of Horde whiners on this forum.


This is pure trolling. All of Suramar is almost strictly a Horde story at this point, as only a Horde player could get any satisfaction out of that questing experience.


This is pure trolling.


lol
08/26/2018 09:39 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
When the Alliance show up on the Horde islands, even then they are victims of Horde aggression. Dwarves find an artifact, KILL THEM AND LOOT THEIR FINDS. Shipwrecked Alliance are trying to survive, KILL THEM ALL AND DESTROY THEIR ONLY MEANS OF ESCAPE!


...I'm starting to think evil horde was an executive order.
08/26/2018 04:27 PMPosted by Akudi
The rare was a doctor treating a bunch of wounded civilians in a basement. I killed the doctor and in the process I think I accidentally took out one or two of the wounded, too.


The dude had Azerite on him, so I'm not buying the whole "Innocent Doctor" act.

He was probably trying to implant the Azerite into those wounded to turn them into super soldiers or something. Thank the Dark Lady I got there in time to stop him.
08/26/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Kharinak
08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
This has been going on since Cata, it's only metastasizing now.
Nyes, I'm sure a questline where they are portrayed as pure evil monsters that bomb puppies that is only ever seen by the Alliance player and is not mentioned in any of their own storylines was totally for the benefit of the Horde player.


I got so much benefit out of finding that lunchbox in that town which was my only reason to go there.
Brennadam is just more of the same. Horde, the faction, enjoying being WC2 esque monsters, and the Alliance being idiots.

Do you even read this forum? Where do you get the idea that we are enjoying this? Most Horde players (in this forum, at least) absolutely hate what Brennadamn is doing to us, "the faction."
People can still complain about horde favoritism as the horde is losing it's mind over why anyone in the horde is acting the way they are acting and the alliance gets back all of their wc2-3 heroes with a new coat of paint. Or a magic boat.

Oh but the old soldier cinematic. Yeah real inspiring how he put off his suicide charge for 15 minutes.
08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik

Horde gets a power trip securing Northern Lordaeron. Alliance gets an unfinished mess in Westfall about a CSI parody nobody asked for and Redridge being saved by Human Potential meme characters, with the PC being reduced to a spectator.


Balancing the map isn't bias, no matter how many times you want to claim it is or just pretend it is. For 6 years it took horde players 50% longer to hit max level because of how much of a mess zones like Barrens were, and pun intended, how barren their questing was.

08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
Horde players get to nuke the Alliance out of 2 regions, Stonetalon and later Theramore, as well as nuke the coastal town of Southshore to oblivion (Southshore! The Alliance port town who literally had an entire quest chain devoted how to how non of a threat it is to anyone!)


Is this the part where we pretend like Theramore was good for the Horde? A moment in the story always portrayed as evil, by pretty much everyone in game and said by the devs and story writers. Theramore is what led to the Horde Civil war and is what started us down this path of Horde in fighting among the players and being flat out left out in an entire expansion. Also Southshore was never a "non-threat" it was the main access point for the Alliance into Lordaeron.

08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
Orgrimmar gets redecorated, Stormwind takes 10 years to rebuild Deathwing's claw marks.


Stormwind is both bigger and a better looking city, has been since Vanilla. They only way your argument has any credence, requires you to admit that before Cataclysm Orgrimmar was an example of anti-Horde bias.

08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
Horde gets an epic conclusion to their civil war storyline, Alliance gets a robot cat and the chance to be lectured by Vol'jin for being useful idiots to the Horde's war effort pre-SoO patch.


Robot cat is a direct result in Blizzard not giving Horde players a satisfying reason to want to raid our own city and Warchief. This is what happens when your side gets everything it wants, eventually you run out of things to do.

08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
The Horde will inevitably get some self-congratulatory story arc where they learn the values of not being genocidal mass murderers, and the Alliance will lose even more territory and generals/key NPCs before that happens. Ffs Admiral Taylor, the best thing to come out of Cataclysm and Mists, was killed off solely due to faction parity because someone in the Blizz storyteam couldn't handle leaving the Alliance with memorable characters besides the faction leaders, and Rogers I guess.


You really don't want to go down the "Which faction has more characters" route. At least you weren't forced to kill Taylor like we were Nazgrim, for quite frankly one of the stupidest reasons Blizz could come up with.

08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
I don't think Blizzard has faction bias. I just think they're idiots who rely on increasingly predictable plots that involve the Horde becoming evil and the Alliance becoming pants-on-head retarded in order for conflict to happen. The Alliance wasn't allowed to even "win" SoL. They are constantly btfo by epix battlemaster Sylvanas and only saved by olympian-level gods. That's not a win. It's capesh*t mixed with a depressing/grim war story.


You very clearly think there is a faction bias, you even say as much in this paragraph, after saying you don't think it exists.

08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
Brennadam is just more of the same. Horde, the faction, enjoying being WC2 esque monsters, and the Alliance being idiots. Alex or Ion really s*it the bed on this. Was Kosak rehired or writing through a proxy? Is that the reason this faction conflict feels so terrible?


Yes, as you can clearly see, the Horde players enjoy the current direction of the story. I don't care how many times Blizzard writes their characters as being fine with this, their players are the soul of their factions and Blizzard should take some queues from them.
08/26/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Okagha
Now that it is people are acting like it didn't matter. Horde players have been given enough reasons for this war, all we need now is for blizz to stop dragging the Horde through the mud for Alliance players to have even more reasons than they already had.


No, what we really need is for the Horde writers to sack up and write objective losses for the Horde. No more of this, "Well, Sylvanas gains something out of it because she's so good of a tactician she can see into the future," or "Oh, well the Horde lose this but the Alliance lose this." nah. Crossroads needs to be wiped off the map, turned into a crater, civilians killed.
08/26/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Treng
All of Suramar is almost strictly a Horde story at this point
False. None of the characters in Suramar were Horde at the time of the storyline's content. That they are now does not retroactively make my experience pro-Horde.

Your comment is asinine and wrong.

08/26/2018 03:23 PMPosted by Relictor
Massive hyperbole as not only did we kill more than just Orcs, the vast majority of those Orcs had nothing to do with the Horde.
Killing Orcs is the heart cornerstone of the entire Alliance. Killing Orcs it not even a building block of the Horde.


While you may not feel that Suramar is Horde content, as a primarily Alliance player I do get that feeling. I don't even think I will bother with the zone anymore on Alliance toons.

I also always had the impression that Val'sharah was Alliance themed from the get go while Highmountain was Horde themed from the get go. They simply let both sides do the quests to expand each faction's content while doing a fraction of the work.
08/27/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Eliza
While you may not feel that Suramar is Horde content, as a primarily Alliance player I do get that feeling. I don't even think I will bother with the zone anymore on Alliance toons.

I also always had the impression that Val'sharah was Alliance themed from the get go while Highmountain was Horde themed from the get go. They simply let both sides do the quests to expand each faction's content while doing a fraction of the work.

The major issue most horde players had with legion in general, was the fact they where forced to quest with alliance characters, but never their own, except in stormhiem which was sylvanas being evil. Baine was supposed to be in Highmountain, but he was cut do to the fact they rewrote the entire zone because of a wrathion plothole. Then the horde had to quest with Tyrande, do a raid with Malf, save stormwind 3 times if they where a rogue, save the draenei and Velen, then worked with Turalyon, and Alleria on argus. The fact magni came back while Cairne stayed dead would have also fueled the resentment.

I don't think it was Alliance Bias unlike many horde posters, but rather blizzard developers doing their traditional don't you think it would be cool if... method of writing. The alliance characters don't feel forced, it's just that blizzard likely wrote one story to the zone with the understanding it was neutral content, made the alliance character to critical to write out, and failed to realize the effect it would have on horde players. I would expect Tyrande to be in the Elune story, as would i expect Malfurion to be in the Xavius story, my major changes would mostly happen on argus (at the very least don't make alleria !@#$ talk the horde as irredeemable monster right after they help her with the hero still in the room) and re-add baine to highmountain.
08/26/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Detrik
Orgrimmar gets redecorated, Stormwind takes 10 years to rebuild Deathwing's claw marks.

And Horde has two leaderless races right now. What's your point, beyond time exaggeration, since it hasn't even been 10 years since Cataclysm yet?
Is this the part where we pretend like Theramore was good for the Horde? A moment in the story always portrayed as evil, by pretty much everyone in game and said by the devs and story writers. Theramore is what led to the Horde Civil war...


(record scratch)

You wouldn't say it was Garrosh's treatment of non-orc Horde that led to the civil war? As I recall, the Horde were happy to obliterate Theramore. It was only when Garrosh went too far with them that they turned on him.

Robot cat is a direct result in Blizzard not giving Horde players a satisfying reason to want to raid our own city and Warchief. This is what happens when your side gets everything it wants, eventually you run out of things to do.


Why did the Alliance want to help the Horde resolve their internal struggle? The story made no sense. The Alliance's interests would have been better served by letting the Horde weaken itself through infighting, and then sweeping in and wiping them out. Instead they helped the Horde and asked for absolutely nothing afterwards. They even left them all fully armed. The entire MoP storyline culminated in the concept that "just following orders" absolves you of any act. All responsibility was on Garrosh's shoulders. It was utterly abysmal. The same thing is playing out now with Sylvanas. All the actions of the entire Horde are her singular responsibility. She fired each and every catapult, she mixed up the blight, she did it all.

The raid was fun though. Garrosh was a tough boss to beat.

Robot cat wasn't because the Alliance got everything it wanted. It was because the story was all about the Horde and the Alliance had nothing to do that made sense. So sure, be a robot cat. Why not? It makes more sense than anything else the Alliance did.
08/27/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Eliza
While you may not feel that Suramar is Horde content, as a primarily Alliance player I do get that feeling. I don't even think I will bother with the zone anymore on Alliance toons.
Yes, very meaningful that you don't plan to bother with a zone that's no longer relevant because it doesn't unlock until max level in a previous expansion.

In any case, your intellectual dishonesty is transparent. Suramar never felt like Horde-specific content to anyone. If it had, the forums wouldn't have turned into a firestorm of Alliance mains who felt genuinely betrayed by the decision to make the Nightborne a Horde allied race. Suramar was explicitly presented as neutral content. It did not retroactively become Horde content in the last patch. The content did not change.

If your feeling of identification with the fictional Alliance is so extreme that you're seriously thinking, "this content is ruined because the Nightborne go on to join the Horde!", you might want to get help.

08/27/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Jandarus
You wouldn't say it was Garrosh's treatment of non-orc Horde that led to the civil war? As I recall, the Horde were happy to obliterate Theramore. It was only when Garrosh went too far with them that they turned on him.
Read Tides of War. The individuals who became the leaders of the rebellion were never happy about Theramore. Prior to the cluster!@#$ that is BfA, it was assumed that those who were happy about it went on to become SoO raid trash.

The seeds of the Darkspear Rebellion were planted long before Theramore. Near the end of the Troll starting experience at the beginning of Cata, you see a memory of a scene in which Vol'jin calls Garrosh out for his warmongering, threatens his life, and basically quits the Horde. Thrall has to personally beg Vol'jin to give the Horde a second chance.

Obviously, Vol'jin is one of the individuals in Tides of War who opposes the attack on Theramore and is horrified by the use of the mana bomb. When he first shows up in MoP during the 5.1 storyline, it's explicitly to try to prevent Garrosh from doing more terrible things... to the Alliance or the races of Pandaria. Garrosh responds by sending an assassin to kill him.

The rebellion ball had been rolling for quite some time before Garrosh really kicked his racism into gear. Don't forget, Vol'jin was actually the third Horde leader who threatened to remove Garrosh from power by force over his warmongering tendencies, after Saurfang and Cairne.

08/27/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Jandarus
Robot cat wasn't because the Alliance got everything it wanted. It was because the story was all about the Horde and the Alliance had nothing to do that made sense.
5.3 was aimed primarily at Horde players because they were about to be asked to raid their own capital. Alliance players didn't need additional motivation to raid Orgrimmar.

And by "aimed primarily at Horde players", i mean Horde players got a whopping two-quest chain in which they stop the Kor'kron from massacring Sen'jin Village and then push them out of Razor Hill.

Horde players got to murder a bunch of fellow orcs they were allied with ten seconds ago, Alliance did some robocat recon. Everything else in the patch was identical for both sides.

Having played both sides of it while it was current, I've always wondered why Alliance mains found Battlefield: Barrens so offensive. Like, did you not enjoy having a character of the opposite faction at the center of a patch cycle? Did you feel a little disenfranchised, being surrounded by the enemy faction's architecture and themes? Were you annoyed when you were reminded through flavor text that the NPC you were working for didn't look kindly on your faction alignment as a matter of general principle?

I guess i can understand that. Good thing none of that ever happens to Horde players.
The Alliance had more than the Horde and it was imbalanced in favor of the Alliance, so Cataclysm fixed that bias.


No you see the Alliance feel Entitled to having more content than the horde, so by balancing that out you're attacking them or something. Horde Bias!
08/27/2018 05:51 PMPosted by Waygu
No you see the Alliance feel Entitled to having more content than the horde, so by balancing that out you're attacking them or something. Horde Bias!


ok what was andorhol balancing out

what was theramore balancing out

what was silverwing refuge balancing out

if the alliance loses something that's favoring them for some reason. if the horde loses something it's favoring alliance though

it's always this retarded defense "muh zone balance" even though victories do not have to be whether or not a faction controls a zone. horde could just get wiped out at crossroads but still keep the zone for leveling.

ah but you see the horde can't ever lose anything

because muh zone balance

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