Burning the tree=not a warcrime

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"didnt want to fight soldiers so bombed civilians so its ok"

pretty sure thats actually not ok, pretty sure thats the wimpy way out, and a straight up coward move.
08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
Sylvanas intended to do something so shocking and terrible that it would force the Alliance to surrender, thus saving more lives in the long run by preventing a long protracted war of attrition. This is along the same lines of thinking as the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.
training

08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
Sylvanas intended to do something so shocking and terrible that it would force the Alliance to surrender, thus saving more lives in the long run by preventing a long protracted war of attrition. This is along the same lines of thinking as the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.
It is not a war crime because there is not a law or treaty that both sides have agreed to. It could be considered a crime against elfity, but who cares about those guys anyways?
08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
Sylvanas intended to do something so shocking and terrible that it would force the Alliance to surrender, thus saving more lives in the long run by preventing a long protracted war of attrition. This is along the same lines of thinking as the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.
training

08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
Sylvanas intended to do something so shocking and terrible that it would force the Alliance to surrender, thus saving more lives in the long run by preventing a long protracted war of attrition. This is along the same lines of thinking as the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.
what makes this a war crime is the fact that she burned teldrassil for no other reason than she got mad she had already won the battle
08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
Sylvanas intended to do something so shocking and terrible that it would force the Alliance to surrender, thus saving more lives in the long run by preventing a long protracted war of attrition. This is along the same lines of thinking as the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.
training

08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
Sylvanas intended to do something so shocking and terrible that it would force the Alliance to surrender, thus saving more lives in the long run by preventing a long protracted war of attrition. This is along the same lines of thinking as the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.
what makes this a war crime is the fact that she burned teldrassil for no other reason than she got mad she had already won the battle
Defending war crimes I see.

Let me guess, Garrosh did nothing wrong too bombing Theramore, which let me remind you, it was stated in the book “exploded in every parallel universe” blowing up Theramore an infinite number of times, basically making the death toll infinity.

Maybe Anduin can just set all of Kalimdor on fire and not commit a war crime.
08/09/2018 06:13 AMPosted by Misskathryn
"didnt want to fight soldiers so bombed civilians so its ok"

pretty sure thats actually not ok, pretty sure thats the wimpy way out, and a straight up coward move.


The thing about Japan in WW2 was that they had this huge cultural idea that it was better to die than surrender. This idea was basically country wide, those who didn't like it would have been forced by their own army to die in "service" to their country.

The guy who lead the Army (I think it was him) even tried to overthrow the Emperor of Japan because the Emperor knew they had lost and wanted to surrender but the Army guy was too prideful and would have had every one of their citizens thrown at the invading US army.

Nuking is indeed a terrible thing but that show of force was enough to make even the Army guy surrender. It didn't just save American lives. It saved Japanese lives indirectly.

What happened to Teldrassil cannot be compared to the nuking of Japan. It would be like if the US army had already won Japan and killed all their forces and then decided to nuke them anyways even though Japan had no way of fighting back at that point.
The only reason Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't considered war crimes is because WE won the war! The victors of an armed conflict ALWAYS determine what is criminal and what isn't. "To the victor goes the spoils." And that includes being on the RIGHT side of history.

If Germany had won the war, do you think their mass murder of millions in concentration camps would be considered criminal? Of course they wouldn't. Why would they indict themselves when they'd won? But, objectively, it doesn't make their mass murder any less criminal, just like our bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki isn't less criminal because we won and rewrote history. They are all war crimes.

Back to Sylvanus, if you willingly gave an order to murder thousands of civilians, you've committed a war crime. It doesn't matter what your intentions or motivations were, it's still criminal. Whether or not she will stand trial for what she did depends on which side wins, but I have a feeling it's not going to go the way the Horde wants to. The entire Alliance is out for blood. I don't think we've ever been this unified under one purpose. We will accept nothing but her head on a spike.
08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
Sylvanas intended to do something so shocking and terrible that it would force the Alliance to surrender, thus saving more lives in the long run by preventing a long protracted war of attrition. This is along the same lines of thinking as the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.


An increasing number of us consider the bombings of Japan to be the biggest example of state sponsored terrorism in history. Incinerating children on the way to school is not an ethical way to end a war. If hitler doing it was wrong,t hen the US doing it is wrong as well.

Likewise, Sylvannas attacked a non military target and murdered a huge amount of civilians int he process. This is terrorism, not warfare.

ter·ror·ism
ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
08/09/2018 02:15 AMPosted by Maldazzar
The plan was as follows; hold Darnassus, use hostages to prevent Alliance from doing stuff.

Then Sylvie got mad because a dying night elf wasn’t buying the whole “I eat hope and slit wrists” spiel and decided burning down a World Tree and killing as many civilians as possible would turn everyone emo. That’s what kicked off the war. Whatever her intentions were to begin with, they went down the loo the minute she ordered “burn the TREEEEEEEEEEEEEE”.

You’re mistaking Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the attack on Pearl Harbor.


That's not even close to what happened, but sure go ahead and be ignorant.

Or go read A Good War.
If this is how you value life, please seek counseling.
08/09/2018 02:16 AMPosted by Rhekkar
Implying bombing two cities saved lives.


Implying it didn't.

Anyone who knows anything about WWII Japan knows the bombing saved millions of lives on both sides.

They were expecting 2-4 million Japanese deaths and upwards of a million American deaths.

The bombs reduced that to 130,000 Japanese deaths.
08/09/2018 06:46 AMPosted by Theannia
08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
Sylvanas intended to do something so shocking and terrible that it would force the Alliance to surrender, thus saving more lives in the long run by preventing a long protracted war of attrition. This is along the same lines of thinking as the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.


An increasing number of us consider the bombings of Japan to be the biggest example of state sponsored terrorism in history. Incinerating children on the way to school is not an ethical way to end a war. If hitler doing it was wrong,t hen the US doing it is wrong as well.

Likewise, Sylvannas attacked a non military target and murdered a huge amount of civilians int he process. This is terrorism, not warfare.

ter·ror·ism
ˈterəˌrizəm/
noun
noun: terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.


I don't think that counts as terrorism since otherwise all warfare would count as terrorism. Usually "political aims" refers to trying to change peoples minds on things (usually by wackjobs who think throwing planes into buildings will somehow make the western world follower their religion or something) not murder their government and take over which is the goal of actual wars.

War just sucks in general.
08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
Sylvanas intended to do something so shocking and terrible that it would force the Alliance to surrender, thus saving more lives in the long run by preventing a long protracted war of attrition. This is along the same lines of thinking as the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.


Did Sylvanas drop pamphlets over Darnassus letting them know to evacuate citizens because a bomb was about to be dropped? No? We did.
08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
Sylvanas intended to do something so shocking and terrible that it would force the Alliance to surrender, thus saving more lives in the long run by preventing a long protracted war of attrition. This is along the same lines of thinking as the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.


It was a failure.

I don't see any alliance surrendering.
08/09/2018 02:45 AMPosted by Catralzamon
08/09/2018 02:28 AMPosted by Adelphie
She slaughtered thousands of night elves and forced them entirely from their homes with the intent to break them as a people. That is genocide.

Actually, it's not. Genocide is the purposeful eradication of a people.


This place believes a mainland invasion of Japan would have saved more lives that bombing them.

You can't expect anyone on the wow forums to understand history.
Don't even try to defend it. You're just making us look worse.
What would be your definition of a war crime then? Mass murder of civilians for the sole purpose of "Breaking their spirit" is NOT a valid war action.

Her initial intent does not matter BECAUSE the intent changed after Malfurion escaped.
08/09/2018 03:36 AMPosted by Spotti
Americans thinking Hiroshima - Nagasaki bombing was necessary. God you are a moron.

Both are war crimes.

Sylvanas is pixels but if you feel the need comparing. She kills her own ppl to raise them. She wants to eliminate the alliance. Sees them as a threat. Burning the tree was genocide. Didn't blink once demanding to burn it. No justifying it. Victory for the forsaken


Lol go back to highscool.

The Japan bombing was necessary and saved around 3-5 million lives.

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