Burning the tree=not a warcrime

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08/09/2018 02:16 AMPosted by Pérola
It is always a blood elf, isn't it? When it is not a bootlicking forsaken.

When it is an orc, though, it is easy to disregard because they type as if they had crab claws for hands.


That's the beauty of Sylvanas. She's Forsaken, but she's also a High Elf.
This gives her two race based avenues for rabid fanboys, while most other characters only have one.
I can't believe you just used Hiroshima and Nagasaki as examples to rationalize your point.

That's not disturbing or anything.
08/09/2018 06:34 AMPosted by Evylline
The only reason Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't considered war crimes is because WE won the war!
In what universe? Americans are still debating whether or not the nukes were justified 70 years after the fact.

Fun fact: the US printed so many Purple Hearts for the proposed invasion of mainland Japan that we only recently ran out of them. And the US was predicted to have a death toll a fourth the size of Japan's.
08/09/2018 06:53 AMPosted by Ionadris
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Actually, it's not. Genocide is the purposeful eradication of a people.


This place believes a mainland invasion of Japan would have saved more lives that bombing them.

You can't expect anyone on the wow forums to understand history.


If you do not understand Japanese culture at the time then obviously it does not make sense.

But knowing how Japanese culture at the time showed that attempting to invade mainland japan would have cost Japan nearly its entire civilian population. They would have thrown themselves on American guns like the Russians did to the Germans at Stalingrad.

That is how fanatical the Japanese people were. Millions of American lives would have been lost, and the losses Japan would take would be so much more.

Ultimately the atomic bombings, as cruel as they were, as much of a war crime they were, saved more Japanese and American lives then they took as a result of their dropping.
I love the rationale that burning the world tree would somehow make the Alliance NOT want to go to war.

I mean...how could anyone be that dumb?

Sylvanas: "Ey yo!!! We gone burn this tree and that will totally not make 6 enemy NATIONS, who are already strongly bound together, want to come after us with all their might and start a brand new war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Horde Fanbois/Writers: "GENIUS!!!!!!!"

Yes. It is really that idiotic.
08/09/2018 07:01 AMPosted by Kyveli
08/09/2018 06:34 AMPosted by Evylline
The only reason Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't considered war crimes is because WE won the war!
In what universe? Americans are still debating whether or not the nukes were justified 70 years after the fact.

Fun fact: the US printed so many Purple Hearts for the proposed invasion of mainland Japan that we only recently ran out of them. And the US was predicted to have a death toll a fourth the size of Japan's.


They weren't considered criminal because we won. No one was brought up on charges. There was no public defamation. That doesn't mean the bombings were not war crimes. The perpetrators just weren't prosecuted. I mean, who was going to do that, the defeated empire of Japan, or Germany? They had no say in the politics of the post war world.
08/09/2018 02:11 AMPosted by Wariya
That nice dear

so are you going 2-3-5 or 2-2- 6 when raiding Slyvanas??


Unpopular, but should really be expected, opinion, Sylvanas won't be a raid boss
...

This place believes a mainland invasion of Japan would have saved more lives that bombing them.

You can't expect anyone on the wow forums to understand history.


If you do not understand Japanese culture at the time then obviously it does not make sense.

But knowing how Japanese culture at the time showed that attempting to invade mainland japan would have cost Japan nearly its entire civilian population. They would have thrown themselves on American guns like the Russians did to the Germans at Stalingrad.

That is how fanatical the Japanese people were. Millions of American lives would have been lost, and the losses Japan would take would be so much more.

Ultimately the atomic bombings, as cruel as they were, as much of a war crime they were, saved more Japanese and American lives then they took as a result of their dropping.
Didn't civilians strap bombs to themselves and try to use their own bodies as anti-tank weapons? I saw that posted here in a similar thread.
The problem with this logic is that there is no atrocity you could not justify.

And, obviously the ‘it was necessary for peace’ argument falls apart given that we wanted peace. It’s not like she made demands the Alliance was unwilling to meet, she just attacked.

You can say what you want about Stormheim, but seizing on a minor scuffle two years back smacks of pretext.
Hiroshima was a warcrime....
Those bombings are debatably war crimes (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Bombings_as_war_crimes for example).

Just as a note, something resulting in fewer lives lost does not make it not a war crime.
08/09/2018 07:10 AMPosted by Ensabanur
I love the rationale that burning the world tree would somehow make the Alliance NOT want to go to war.

I mean...how could anyone be that dumb?

Sylvanas: "Ey yo!!! We gone burn this tree and that will totally not make 6 enemy NATIONS, who are already strongly bound together, want to come after us with all their might and start a brand new war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Horde Fanbois/Writers: "GENIUS!!!!!!!"

Yes. It is really that idiotic.


It really is that idiotic.

But then you also have...

Alliance Fanbois: "OMG WE MUST UNITE NOW FOR BLOOD!!!"

Despite the fact that the whole concept of Orcs vs Humans with Orcs being the bad guys has always been the cliche set up, some Horde players act like it's unacceptable to be the bad guys and some Alliance players act like it's brand new story telling. So in truth, Blizzard is hitting the spot for all the fan boys of both sides.
08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.


The only reason those things aren't called war crimes (depending on who you ask) is because the winning side gets to write the history books and call it what they want. We know there will never be a side that ultimately wins in WoW anyway, as long as both factions are playable. So the Alliance will probably forever call the indiscriminate killing of civilians on Teldrassil, a war crime, which it really is. Just like the nuclear bombing of Japan.
08/09/2018 07:17 AMPosted by Kyveli
Didn't civilians strap bombs to themselves and try to use their own bodies as anti-tank weapons? I saw that posted here in a similar thread.


They did a lot of things from suicide attacks to leading American troops into ambushes to setting up traps or just plain throwing themselves off of cliffs. Forcing American troops to have to expend ammo was also seen as a valid tactic. Russians thought the same, the Commissars would run troops into MG42 fire to speed up the Germans running out of ammo so they could advance and take the defense point just one small part of why Stalingrad was a bloodbath that had some of the highest casualties in the war. Civilians on the japanese home islands were also trained in combat and armed in preparation for the foreseen invasion.

American soldiers were also demonized via propaganda to make civilians want to kill them even more.
08/09/2018 02:20 AMPosted by Glitterfyre
08/09/2018 02:16 AMPosted by Pérola
It is always a blood elf, isn't it? When it is not a bootlicking forsaken.

When it is an orc, though, it is easy to disregard because they type as if they had crab claws for hands.


It's exactly this self-righteous racist attitude that makes me stay Horde. Yes, it's just a game, but the attitude is very real.
BOOTLICKAAAAA!
08/09/2018 02:58 AMPosted by Glitterfyre
If they were going to just lay down and give up the city and let the horde take it, why were there civilians still in there?


Because many did not want to leave, nor did many believe that the Horde would win, no faction has ever succeeded in taking the others city. By the time they got that close it was too late. Either way the guard had given up and all that remained were Civilians who where not going to take up arms.

The situations for any blood elf should ring home. The reason why many belves take issue with Jaina and Vareesa. When they wanted to remove the blood elves their homes in Dalaran, forcing them out by the sword. Some of them resisted and paid the price.
Imagine my shock that a member of the Horde would say that the unprovoked genocide of hundreds of civilians was not a warcrime.
08/09/2018 02:08 AMPosted by Rivendel
Sylvanas intended to do something so shocking and terrible that it would force the Alliance to surrender, thus saving more lives in the long run by preventing a long protracted war of attrition. This is along the same lines of thinking as the US bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, terrible as it was, to save more lives in the long run. These things are not warcrimes, just unfortunate.


Why am I not surprised it's a blood elf player posting this, lol

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