Seraphim is much better than people think

Paladin
I know Icy Veins and other sites say not to take Seraphim but here is what I get when I use it:

15% Haste
14% Crit (9% parry)
14% Mastery (5% DR in Consecrate, 10% Block)
11% Vers (11% flat Damage, 5.5% flat DR)

The other thing about this is that Seraphim lasts 16 sec if you use it with 2 charges of SotR, however, if you Consecrate with 1 sec left on Seraphim, you get the full 5% extra DR throughout that entire Consecrate. Meaning if timed properly, you get 28 seconds of the 5% flat DR.

I know it is much harder to use than the other choices on that row, but I feel like if you are really trying to min/max, it is the best choice. Has anyone else been trying it out?
Yeah Icy Veins doesnt have it all worked out yet. They still have it to use Hammer of Wrath over Blade of Wrath and Fires of Justice. Pretty much experiencing it on my own atm
I pretty much stopped using it because of the increased cooldown and the longer recharge for SotR stacks. I miss the stat boosts, sure, but ehh.
08/24/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Merzuul
I pretty much stopped using it because of the increased cooldown and the longer recharge for SotR stacks. I miss the stat boosts, sure, but ehh.


Give my build a shot and try to get the 20% increased chance for Grand Crusader proc Azerite Traits. You can basically spam Judgement to recharge your SotR stacks.
I can see it being slightly ok for single target, but now that SotR is an aoe, that hits pretty hard, I don't see losing a lot of mitigation for a minor single target dps boost being viable.

Trash right now is a lot harder than bosses, and losing the damage reduction and flat damage boost against big packs while using last defender is pretty hard for me to pass up.
How much damage and mitigation are you actually losing out on? As I said in my post you get 16 seconds of all the stats above along with the parry/block/DR they all bring, and it costs you 6 seconds of 5k armor.

Remember that with the extra Haste and Crit your SotR stacks are going to come back much faster during those 16 seconds, especially with the Judgement talent along with the Grand Crusader traits.

I used this build to tank Mythics the last 2 weeks and had 0 threat or survivability issues. I started Mythics around 298 ilvl. It honestly feels to me like Seraphim is on par with Last Defender on AOE packs and superior on single target for both damage and survivability.
You’re losing out on a ton of armor and aoe damage. Sure you get like 500ish of each stat but I really don’t think that’s making up for the huge physical damage reduction you’re getting with sotr and I don’t know about anyone else but I hardly notice my stacks coming back quicker with the haste you get from seraphrim.
08/24/2018 02:52 PMPosted by Grìz
You’re losing out on a ton of armor and aoe damage. Sure you get like 500ish of each stat but I really don’t think that’s making up for the huge physical damage reduction you’re getting with sotr and I don’t know about anyone else but I hardly notice my stacks coming back quicker with the haste you get from seraphrim.


You lose out on 5k armor for 6 seconds. Which is about 20-25% physical reduction. You trade this for 16 seconds of 10.5% flat DR, 10% block, 9% parry and the Haste buff.

I feel like it’s a worthwhile trade if used properly.
08/24/2018 03:06 AMPosted by Ihasdivinity
Yeah Icy Veins doesnt have it all worked out yet. They still have it to use Hammer of Wrath over Blade of Wrath and Fires of Justice. Pretty much experiencing it on my own atm
probably because it is better
08/24/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Mornhyland
that hits pretty hard


If by "pretty hard" you mean "like a wet noodle" then yeah.

08/24/2018 07:27 PMPosted by Stonebrae
You lose out on 5k armor for 6 seconds. Which is about 20-25% physical reduction. You trade this for 16 seconds of 10.5% flat DR, 10% block, 9% parry and the Haste buff.

I feel like it’s a worthwhile trade if used properly.


You also lose out on faster heal/wings cooldown...
@Turnberry just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I switched to Seraphim last night and increased my enjoyment of tanking of heroics. We will see what happens when I move to Mythics!
08/25/2018 01:40 PMPosted by Lightfuros
@Turnberry just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I switched to Seraphim last night and increased my enjoyment of tanking of heroics. We will see what happens when I move to Mythics!


The spec honestly feels more complete playing with Seraphim. Now after doing a lot of number crunching by myself and with people on the Pally discord, it is definitely a survivability loss for physical damage (haven't quite figured out how much). That being said, it is actually a gain for magic damage DR, and you also gain a significant DPS increase, especially on single target.

My opinion is that Seraphim needs a small buff. I would say instead of 8 sec per stack, it needs to be 10-12 sec per stack. Then it would really make people think about taking it, and it should! There is no reason an active talent for tanks (especially an ability that you have to plan your AM stacks around) should be worse than the passive talents in that row.
Seraphim is more fun but I agree with Icy Veins. Seraphim rapes in pvp too
08/23/2018 11:26 PMPosted by Turnberry
Meaning if timed properly, you get 28 seconds of the 5% flat DR.


Interesting. Seraphim back in WoD took a while to catch on as well. Sometimes people are just wrong. Its very common actually with aspects like these that are very situational.

Also, Shield of the Righteous is kind of !@# atm and our class needs more magic defensives for many dungeons. This could be that situation where Seraphim is indeed the best.

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