Loyalty to Sylvanas vs Horde principles

General Discussion
08/27/2018 01:24 PMPosted by Dissolute
08/27/2018 01:20 PMPosted by Zekeran
The Horde has to evolve. We either are a family of outcasts or a warlike rather primitive culture about suicidal honor.

We have to acknowledge that blood elves, forsaken and goblin dont share the values of the founding members yet abandoning those in need because are different to us is also betrayal of The Hordes spirit.


Trying to create internal conflict, that isn't there, by targeting it's other races- is counterproductive and serves no purpose at all. Other than fueling the Alliance biased machine. Memes are one thing, personal dislike of a race is another thing but you are not helping the faction or it's story, by throwing your own people under the bus.


im acknowledging what we are. Before the goblins our technology was very crude. Our honor system is contradictory and sometimes very suicidal (honor would've demanded that we all died at the broken shore). If im not wrong (i might be) the darkspear had some very dark tradition that they casted aside when they joined the horde.

Some people act like the forsaken are now a problem to the image of the horde, when all we have been doing is ignoring them or having a lose watch to avoid another Wrathgate.

i dont think that blood elves have forgotten what happened during Garroshs time and we only have them now because of the purge of dalaran.

Beliving that horde is united on their beliefs is kidding ourselves. But something has to unite us at the core and its the belief that alone we die but together we can survive.
08/27/2018 01:38 PMPosted by Zekeran
Before the goblins our technology was very crude. Our honor system is contradictory and sometimes very suicidal (honor would've demanded that we all died at the broken shore). If im not wrong (i might be) the darkspear had some very dark tradition that they casted aside when they joined the horde.


I think you're confusing Japanese samurai Honor and Horde Honor. They are not the same.
This shift in the Horde leadership goes completely against what I initially signed up to play Horde for all the way back in Wrath.

During that time, Thrall's, even early Garrosh's Horde, the ENTIRE appeal was being the hotheaded, slightly edgy faction that ultimately strove for peace, but wasn't afraid to bust some skulls if the situation called for it.

And when it came around to Garrosh (Barring his whole insane shift in Mists), you were still a hothead, and a warmonger, but you still had a sense of honor and pride about you, you wouldn't kill innocents (See: YOU ARE DISMISSED in Stonetalon).

It's the whole reason I started shifting toward Alliance. Better to be lawful stupid, than stupidly evil. I can handle playing an evil character, but the writing just ASSUMES the ENTIRETY of the Horde would just go along with what Sylvanas is doing, and it's just terrible writing all around.
She is talking about Anduin. Also, the Horde is an Empire.
Garona is a kingslayer. not a Warchief slayer. It is Anduin's head she speaks of.

Nathanos has always been grumpy and condescending, He's one of those types you either love or hate. I've been dealing with him so long I love him for his grumpiness. If he wasn't grumpy I'd worry something was desperately wrong.

My loyalty is to the Horde and for once my loyalty to Sylvanas is one and the same. I can dig that.

Garrosh had daddy issues, was a whiner, and a responsibility shifter from the start. He didn't deserve to be Warchief. Sylvanas has earned her way up and though she'd have preferred to stay in the shadows she stepped up when her Warchief asked her to. Even Saurfang admitted that the way he did things and the way Sylvanas did things were not even remotely the same because of the way they were brought up and trained. Because of the Horde, she let him plan out and institute the aggression in Ashenvale, Darkshore, and even to Darnassus. It was when he failed in his last duty to take Malfurions head that Sylvanas stepped in and did things her way.

I have no issue with my loyalty to her or to the Horde. Despite great differences we manage to fight together as one. That to me is what the Horde is. We don't homongenize, our differences are our strength and we don't insist that we have to agree, just be willing to fight together despite those differences.
08/27/2018 03:42 PMPosted by Onmyouji
Nathanos has always been grumpy and condescending, He's one of those types you either love or hate. I've been dealing with him so long I love him for his grumpiness. If he wasn't grumpy I'd worry something was desperately wrong.

My loyalty is to the Horde and my for once my loyalty to Sylvanas is one and the same. I can dig that.

Garrosh had daddy issues, was a whiner, and a responsibility shifter from the start. He didn't deserve to be Warchief. Sylvanas has earned her way up and though she'd have preferred to stay in the shadows she stepped up when her Warchief asked her to. Even Saurfang admitted that the way he did things and the way Sylvanas did things were not even remotely the same because of the way they were brought up and trained. Because of the Horde, she let him plan out and institute the aggression in Ashenvale, Darkshore, and even to Darnassus. It was when he failed in his last duty to take Malfurions head that Sylvanas stepped in and did things her way.

I have no issue with my loyalty to her or to the Horde. Despite great differences we manage to fight together as one. That to me is what the Horde is. We don't homongenize, our differences are our strength and we don't insist that we have to agree, just be willing to fight together despite those differences.


See, this is a sensible response, and I can appreciate it, despite the fact that I disagree with the way the current Horde leadership does things.

You get an upvote from me, good sir.
08/27/2018 02:59 PMPosted by Goraxe
08/27/2018 01:38 PMPosted by Zekeran
Before the goblins our technology was very crude. Our honor system is contradictory and sometimes very suicidal (honor would've demanded that we all died at the broken shore). If im not wrong (i might be) the darkspear had some very dark tradition that they casted aside when they joined the horde.


I think you're confusing Japanese samurai Honor and Horde Honor. They are not the same.


maybe im watching to much of saurfang....
08/27/2018 03:42 PMPosted by Onmyouji
It was when he failed in his last duty to take Malfurions head that Sylvanas stepped in and did things her way.


Duty? See that's where you're wrong. Even Sun Tzu said, "There are some order I can not follow", when those orders affected his honor and leadership. I believe Saurfang felt the same way. It was and order he could not follow because it damage is honor and ability to lead. When other Orcs look at him what will they see, what will his actions affect his underlings? Will they now see this dishonorable act as ok? Surely yes, therefore he could not follow the this dishonorable order.
08/27/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Maraloc
It's so weird really. Like, if you're an Orc you're supposed to be Horde? No single other Orc has joined the other side? Please.


I think a few Orcs have tried, but the Alliance is absurdly racist and would kill them on sight.
08/27/2018 02:59 PMPosted by Goraxe
08/27/2018 01:38 PMPosted by Zekeran
Before the goblins our technology was very crude. Our honor system is contradictory and sometimes very suicidal (honor would've demanded that we all died at the broken shore). If im not wrong (i might be) the darkspear had some very dark tradition that they casted aside when they joined the horde.


I think you're confusing Japanese samurai Honor and Horde Honor. They are not the same.
None of you know what you're talking about. There is no honor in war. Period. Honorable combat has always been a way for rich, entitled ruling classes to convince poor schlubs to go die in battle for land and money they will never see. The only people who believe in talk about "honor" in war are idiots that expect other people to die for them.

Saurfang is a perfect example. Especially the part where he makes a big speech about dying with honor on the blades of his enemies and then surrenders so he can sit in a prison and make snide remarks to the people trying to rescue him.
Friendly reminder that Garona Halforcen is a member of the uncrowned, and Alliance leaning group that specializes in deception and espionage.

She's up to something. We're all up to something.
Always loyal to the dark lady, if you remember Warcraft 3 you know why. #Arthasneverforget
I mean Sylvanas was the one who gave us life in the first place so I would have to say I am more loyal to her than the Horde.
What even are the Horde principles?

Blood Elves and Forsaken definitely do not have the same values as Orcs, Tauren and Trolls.

Goblins are profit-driven, and Nightborne are their own thing too.

What are the universal Horde principles?
I've heard Nathanos talk down to other people, he's done nothing but praise me for always getting the job done when everyone else fails him so I'm not sure what ya'll talking about.

Also, I'm a Forsaken Warlock; I curse people and enslave demons, I'm pretty loose on principles to begin with. Victory for Sylvanas.
08/27/2018 04:44 PMPosted by Bonemaster
I mean Sylvanas was the one who gave us life in the first place so I would have to say I am more loyal to her than the Horde.

No, she took your life and replaced it with a sick mockery of it.
08/27/2018 04:37 PMPosted by Sutanu
08/27/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Maraloc
It's so weird really. Like, if you're an Orc you're supposed to be Horde? No single other Orc has joined the other side? Please.


I think a few Orcs have tried, but the Alliance is absurdly racist and would kill them on sight.


thing is we get many cases of NPC factions, not allied to anything and they are cool with mixing it up. And they exist in alliance areas.

Your point is valid, only because the hard set writing of the game. thread on humans yesterday had me go....why does every human fall under anduin? Answer, its in the script.

TBH...game needs a 3rd side really. Hate anduin, hate sylvanas...well maybe you won't hate this option. If you do, well pick the least hated lol.

I'd put my DH's here for sure. I am not sure why they pick a side tbh. We are outcasts from society really.
Illidari first, Horde because of gameplay mechanics.

If Sylvanas becomes another threat to this world it would be the job of the Illidari to jump in the Fel Hammer and FelNuke her from orbit to be sure.

I feel this expansion will test the idea of keeping the two factions system. BFA should end with the game going open faction. Choose which cities to be good with. Let’s face it at the war for Undercity the !@#$% gases her own forces. We had not even crossed the Godzilla Threshold and she went all in.

Tbh I think that move was to remind the other Horde leaders not to fall out of line with her mission or she would hit them too.
I am Forsaken, I am not a part of the Horde because of some arbitrary sense of honor.

Neither are the Blood Elves.

Don't think the Goblins care either.

Our new Nightborne friends seem more prideful of their stature than how honorable others believe them to be.

Only half of the Horde has any care for honor, and the rest of us have followed that pointless quest for years.

But now it's our turn to take the reins. And it's time to get things done.
Wait, why Garona said that? I thought we were supposed to feel bad about her because she was mind controlled and it was not a betrayal?

Oh well. Not sure why everybody out of nowhere is choosing loyalties so freely. But ok Garona, we'll name you PoisonedArrow#4500 of Sylvanas quiver.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum