All BfA timegates are calculated to incentivize resubbing for a 2nd month.

General Discussion
08/19/2018 08:27 PMPosted by Canadien
08/19/2018 08:24 PMPosted by Pillöw
No. What expansion was released with a raid right at the start?


Vanilla, BC, Wrath, Cataclysm. Next question.

Edit: You have achievements dating back to 2008. You must have bought your account if you didn't know this.


Hmm. Interesting. You know something happened right around Wrath that would have had its full effect during mid Cata. HMM...HMMMMMMMM...could it maybe have something to do with a certain merger? I think they crunched some numbers, and realized they would make more money this way. It's funny...even with declining subs, I think their revenue from WoW is still very high or possibly higher than before thanks to the cash shop, tokens, and other things they use to bleed their addicts.

BTW guys...you can always have a timesink that doesn't have to be a hard timegate. For example, they would have the content available for you to try, but it would be nearly impossible on release. That's actually good game design because it gives people something to try. You always have something to progress to and try to complete.

For example, BC launch had extremely hard heroics early on. People had something to work toward and struggle with. This led to even harder raids, which were still available to you in spite of being extremely overtuned. If you really wanted to, there was tons of content open to you. You never just had to wait around. There was always a clear goal to strive toward, and it wasn't just waiting for them to unlock things. BC wasn't perfect, and it had a LOT of problems which I won't get into, but i think the pacing of BC at launch and early on was much better.
If Blizzard released everything right away what would be the fun in that we would be done with the expansion in the first month. You probaly spend 24/7 on this game so now you can be patient while the people that have jobs and school enjoy the expansion little by little so they don't just miss put on the entire expansion they payed $60 on .
Beat them at their own game. Just unsub for 4-5 months then you will come back to piles of content, it's what I've done since Cata and it works very well.
Holy cow wait a minute.

You're telling me WoW is designed to keep me subscribed and playing?

This changes everything.
Yeah they probably paid someone millions just to calculate this stuff to keep people hooked in when in reality it probably turns a lot of people off of the game sooner then anticipated. The fact the zandalari troll and kul tiran humans arent even obtainable atm is proof they are holding stuff back simply for more revenue.
Lmao people actually bringing up vanilla.

I don't know if you guys just don't remember or never even played vanilla, but vanilla took most people 2 months to max level, a few more weeks to get some gear to start ATTUNEMENT quests to even get into raids. Then they waited a few more weeks for 39+ other people to also finish that process.

It took the guy who originally came out with the first leveling guide 2 weeks to get 0-60 and that with all his optimization, and that guide didn't come out until over a year or release.

TBC also had long attunement chains.

Wrath was re-using Naxx.

Cata is a good point I guess, but rather the exception than the rule.
Old metrics: Subs and services.
New metrics: Keeping players online.

Clearly.
Aight if you kiddos are so worried about being subbed for 2 consecutive months then I'm going to hit you with;

Rethink your finances. It's $14 a month. Get a better job if it's so horrible. Or just quit and rethink your life.
I just hit 120 last night and have a ton still to do, so these "time-gating" complaints are just totally insane to me. You guys must either have no lives if you're bored already, or just totally hate the game if you don't enjoy the content currently provided. I'm loving the expansion thus far and these systems are just like they were in Legion which was a great expansion. So it shouldn't really come as a surprise - especially since Legion was so popular.
08/19/2018 10:10 PMPosted by Reeven
Afterwards, a significant number of players suggested holding raid releases until two weeks to a month into the expansion "so there's less pressure and they can have time to enjoy leveling". And Blizzard agreed.

Personally I am 100% in favor of holding raids two weeks.


Seriously, since when is holding raid release for a few weeks a bad thing? I thought everyone liked that, I don't remember any complaints about it from the last three expansions. (unless you count the perrenial LFR schedule complaints)

And haven't we had daily reputations for years and years? No one called that "time-gating" until Legion, when people suddenly started acting like putting quests on a daily timer was a new thing.
08/19/2018 08:23 PMPosted by Canadien
Game development companies such as Blizzard all know that subs hemorrhage after the first month of an expansion.

If you look at all the content time-gating (reputation grind, release of Uldir, Stromgarde, world bosses) nothing is set to release until it's time for people to resub for September. Even the reputation grind is calculated for most people to hit Revered by this time (people who don't do much more than emissaries).

Blizzard knows that they can generate an extra several million in revenue just by forcing countless players to pay an extra $15 to see content that they already paid $55+ for.

Why must everything be about money and profits? Remember when reputations were actual grinds? Or when raid content didn't have to be artificially held back because the content didn't come with a loot pinata mode and also had attunements before entry?


You forgot about the worst time-gating of all, flight. Something we have all "earned" repeatedly.
I bet you all that something will be released in early/mid October to incentivize resubs for that month as well. Could be a new dungeon, a la Return to Karazhan, or the release of Kul Tiran Humans and Zandalari Trolls. Could be class balance, too.

Oh, wait...nevermind...you know what releases around that time?! The last wing of LFR. Almost like its release is calculated perfectly!! Wow! Crazy how that works.
Hah! I fooled Blizzard by doing a 6 month sub!
You mean, they want you to KEEP playing? Those monsters! /sarcasm

Dude, if you're that salty, then clearly, this is not the game for you, and you should most definitely NOT pay the monthly sub. However, keep in mind, you don't speak everyone either.

My wife and I are enjoying the heck out of BFA along with our returning guildmates. New expansion generally means some new grinds in any MMO.
What i find funny is i'd be willing to play for longer than 2 months if everything was released when oh idk i bought the Expac instead of oh you spent 99 AUD for cool edition well hate to tell ya 75% of the content isn't in game also some lore is locked behind Mythic dungeons and LFR won't come out till end of next month and that's only 1 raid of few speculated.

So basically i'm told i should do all content then sit my !@#$ down and begin rep grinding so i have it done when the content datamined and advertised isn't even in the game yet.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to keep players subbed and playing, but (imo) that should come as a natural result of players enjoying fun content that stands on its own merits and has replayability, rather than being a specifically designed ploy of artificial gates that begin to look more and more obvious the longer they're in place.
08/20/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Snowfox
Holy cow wait a minute.

You're telling me WoW is designed to keep me subscribed and playing?

This changes everything.


I know you're being facetious but the point is that they're designing around keeping people subbed through artificial means at the expense of fun, instead of designing around fun with the hopes that people will stay because of the entertainment value.

Pre-WoD WoW is like Disney's Marvel. Post-WoD WoW is like Disney's Star Wars.
They only have to get your interest for a couple days to get that $15 dollars a month.
08/20/2018 01:14 PMPosted by Korashy
Lmao people actually bringing up vanilla.

I don't know if you guys just don't remember or never even played vanilla, but vanilla took most people 2 months to max level, a few more weeks to get some gear to start ATTUNEMENT quests to even get into raids. Then they waited a few more weeks for 39+ other people to also finish that process.

It took the guy who originally came out with the first leveling guide 2 weeks to get 0-60 and that with all his optimization, and that guide didn't come out until over a year or release.

TBC also had long attunement chains.

Wrath was re-using Naxx.

Cata is a good point I guess, but rather the exception than the rule.


And none of those examples are time gates. You could get attune to MC or BWL in a day. Nothing stopped you from doing that at your own pace. There were no artificial time gates you had to wait for. Just your raid team or guild.

Every rep in vanilla had mobs that were grindable and or had turn in items so you could farm whenever you wanted.
I don't think Blizzard would ever change anything because that would be admitting the players were right and the devs were wrong. This group of devs would NEVER ever EVER allow that to happen.

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