Dev on 1st War: Alliance Shot First

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08/10/2018 07:51 PMPosted by Alurna
Not sure about the, 'First to Strike,' thing but there's logic to the Orc viewpoint of trying to survive by leaving their own dying world for a live and flourishing one.

If they weren't addled by Demon Blood and being led by the Shadow Council, I imagine the Orcs might've been able to peacefully settle as well. Llane seemed interested in diplomacy.


Not Dying.
Its still there Happily floating through space.
I went there last week to be Illidan and get killed by NPC's!
Outland Nargarond is a nice place! Go take a look! I'll wait. <3
08/10/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Duralumin
Not Dying.
Its still there Happily floating through space.
I went there last week to be Illidan and get killed by NPC's!
Outland Nargarond is a nice place! Go take a look! I'll wait. <3


Canonically, I believe, Outland is slowly crumbling away. It might just be a dust cloud in the modern era right now. That said the living chunks of the planet might've been a result of being bathed in the energies of the Twisting Nether.
08/10/2018 08:01 PMPosted by Alurna
08/10/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Duralumin
Not Dying.
Its still there Happily floating through space.
I went there last week to be Illidan and get killed by NPC's!
Outland Nargarond is a nice place! Go take a look! I'll wait. <3


Canonically, I believe, Outland is slowly crumbling away. It might just be a dust cloud in the modern era right now. That said the living chunks of the planet might've been a result of being bathed in the energies of the Twisting Nether.


We go there in modern era to relive Illidans memories of his death in BC. We dont go to the past to see it. So cannon wise its still there. It still has daemons flying around but that quest happened before Argus so that part may change if they ever update its location.
08/10/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Duralumin
08/10/2018 07:51 PMPosted by Alurna
Not sure about the, 'First to Strike,' thing but there's logic to the Orc viewpoint of trying to survive by leaving their own dying world for a live and flourishing one.

If they weren't addled by Demon Blood and being led by the Shadow Council, I imagine the Orcs might've been able to peacefully settle as well. Llane seemed interested in diplomacy.


Not Dying.
Its still there Happily floating through space.
I went there last week to be Illidan and get killed by NPC's!
Outland Nargarond is a nice place! Go take a look! I'll wait. <3
It even states in the lore that draenor was dying most lands were dust bowls and plants couldn't grow. So yeah there are still habitable areas but not large enough to support the entire horde they would have died out if they didn't leave
To be completely technical, Chronicle does have the humans 'strike first' as it were, since Lothar's scouting party skirmishes with orc scouts while the Horde is stabilizing the Dark Portal. This being before they knew what the orcs even were.

Relevant Quote; "King Llane dispatched Commander Lothar to uncover the truth. He led a small force of knights and scouted out the Black Morass. It was not long before Lothar ran across the Horde. For the first time, orcs clashed with Stormwind's knights, engaging in a series of bloody skirmishes."

This doesn't change the fact that the orcs were there for a war of conquest from the onset though, and would immediately afterwords begin pillaging villages.
08/10/2018 05:35 PMPosted by Felya
08/10/2018 04:19 PMPosted by Vivehk
Did you people actually read what was transcribed?

The developer DID NOT definitively say that the Alliance shot first. That paragraph was a comparison between what each side thought of who started the conflict.

The Horde were trying to escape from a doomed world to a new place to live (yes, this is kind of inaccurate considering the whole demon blood thing, but that's not the point) but the Humans responded by killing them. So the OG Horde considers the Humans, and subsequent Alliance, as the ones who started the overall conflict. Conversely, for the Humans(/Alliance), the Horde was an invasive species that started ravaging human lands unprovoked.

Objectively, the Horde did "shoot first" because of the influence of the demon blood making them more "pillagers" than "settlers," but the developer is talking about the perception that each side had of the other.

Let's not deliberately misinterpret what can be easily inferred from what is written.


Forgive us, Holy Vehk.

The orcs came to Azeroth in peace, in much the same way that you stayed true to Lord Indoril Nerevar.
"The ending of the words is ALMSIVI."

I like this response and appreciate the reference, even if you're slyly mocking my post.
08/11/2018 06:45 AMPosted by Galien
08/10/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Duralumin
...

Not Dying.
Its still there Happily floating through space.
I went there last week to be Illidan and get killed by NPC's!
Outland Nargarond is a nice place! Go take a look! I'll wait. <3
It even states in the lore that draenor was dying most lands were dust bowls and plants couldn't grow. So yeah there are still habitable areas but not large enough to support the entire horde they would have died out if they didn't leave


Wasn't Draenor dying -because- they took up the demon blood, and kil'jaeden was intentionally killing their planet so that they would be even more compelled to go and attack Azeroth?

I mean, that's pretty much entirely the fault of the Orcs for ever drinking the demon blood.
08/11/2018 07:38 AMPosted by Vivehk
08/10/2018 05:35 PMPosted by Felya
...

Forgive us, Holy Vehk.

The orcs came to Azeroth in peace, in much the same way that you stayed true to Lord Indoril Nerevar.
"The ending of the words is ALMSIVI."

I like this response and appreciate the reference, even if you're slyly mocking my post.


It's always good to see another fan.
This doesn't change the fact that the orcs were there for a war of conquest from the onset though, and would immediately afterwords begin pillaging villages.


It says the Stormwind knight fight clashed with them. It doesnt say/negate the fact other humans could have come in contact before then. Speaking of which.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Joanna_Blueheart

This land is where orcs and humans first spilled each other's blood. Not a mile south lurks Stonard, where the orcs first grouped to invade our lands.

It was here they amassed their armies before we even knew they existed. It was here that they started the first of three wars with their attack on a small Alliance town to the west.

My town. The town where my parents died to save me.

But I'm not here to settle a grudge... I'm here to win a war.


Again, the choices are:

1) Horrible retcon in the name of "MORALLY GRAY".
2) Horrible translation.
3) The devs, was speaking out of his dernier.
08/10/2018 05:38 PMPosted by Galien
I mean we all know the first horde starts the war but I think what should be taken from this or rather the point Is the horde did have an understandable goal yes we can argue that they did this to themselves but you'd be hard pressed to find a group that would choose extinction over conquest. Even when doom hammer took over he says that there was no other way for his people to survive.


Yes there was.

Quit while he was ahead and give the frightened natives who've just seen them overrun one of the main human Kingdoms a chance for peace in exchange for recognizing everything south of Blackrock Spire as Orc land.
I want one of them to say that the draenei shot first and that the Path of Glory was a natural, reasonable retaliation. It would be so utterly retarded that I could finally just give up.

08/10/2018 08:06 PMPosted by Duralumin
We go there in modern era to relive Illidans memories of his death in BC. We dont go to the past to see it. So cannon wise its still there. It still has daemons flying around but that quest happened before Argus so that part may change if they ever update its location.
Quests also had us go to AU Draenor multiple times and apparently none of those are canon, because BfA says there's been no contact or even portals open between the MU and AU since Archimonde died.
It does seem most likely a case of devs not knowing their lore.

I wouldn't cry if it was a retcon though. It's way milder than the way they've retconned the trolls into the vile aggressors who lose like aggressors always should in every conflict between them and the current or future Alliance races.
08/10/2018 08:01 PMPosted by Alurna
08/10/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Duralumin
Not Dying.
Its still there Happily floating through space.
I went there last week to be Illidan and get killed by NPC's!
Outland Nargarond is a nice place! Go take a look! I'll wait. <3


Canonically, I believe, Outland is slowly crumbling away. It might just be a dust cloud in the modern era right now. That said the living chunks of the planet might've been a result of being bathed in the energies of the Twisting Nether.


No one has ever said it was crumbling anywhere near that fast, it's probably fine for centuries, folks claiming it's not safe to live on or is non-existent now are making things up.
I'm just going to treat this like a retcon until Blizzard inevitably fixes it.
I'm glad Blackhand canonically did nothing wrong.
just the fact that the orcs were slaves from the burning legion at the time makes the horde the bad guys.
they went to azeroth to conquer it and destroy every other race there.
08/11/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Ugom
08/10/2018 08:01 PMPosted by Alurna
...

Canonically, I believe, Outland is slowly crumbling away. It might just be a dust cloud in the modern era right now. That said the living chunks of the planet might've been a result of being bathed in the energies of the Twisting Nether.


No one has ever said it was crumbling anywhere near that fast, it's probably fine for centuries, folks claiming it's not safe to live on or is non-existent now are making things up.
I don't even recall any quests that referred to Outland as a whole crumbling instead of the Nethestorm in particular.
For the horde, when they came through the Dark Portal, they just wanted to find a place to live, but the Alliance attacked them and wanted to destroy them, so it was Alliance who did the first shot.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
08/11/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Ugom
08/10/2018 08:01 PMPosted by Alurna
...

Canonically, I believe, Outland is slowly crumbling away. It might just be a dust cloud in the modern era right now. That said the living chunks of the planet might've been a result of being bathed in the energies of the Twisting Nether.


No one has ever said it was crumbling anywhere near that fast, it's probably fine for centuries, folks claiming it's not safe to live on or is non-existent now are making things up.


Shattrath's probably the safest place in the WoW setting right now.
08/11/2018 12:43 PMPosted by Felya
08/11/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Ugom
...

No one has ever said it was crumbling anywhere near that fast, it's probably fine for centuries, folks claiming it's not safe to live on or is non-existent now are making things up.


Shattrath's probably the safest place in the WoW setting right now.
It's a city filled with naaru. I fully expect everyone there to be a Lightbound drone by this point.

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