Vocal "Minority"

General Discussion
I see the terms "vocal minority" and "silent majority" thrown around a lot, and that changes shouldn't be made just because some forum nerds decided to voice their opinion.

Well...

1. The forums are used by people of all playstyles; mythic raiders, petbattlers, hardcore PvPers, casuals... And when all of them seem to have a problem with the same couple of features, maybe it should be a red flag to some people.

2. If the forums really are a vocal minority, then its Blizzard's fault for failing to collect sufficient data from everyone else playing the game. Dont fault people voicing concerns for just voicing their concerns.

3.
But the people who dont have issues are playing the game, as they should be

Hard to believe. I've had several friends tell me that their guilds and raid teams have been hemorrhaging active members and subs since people started hitting 120, to the point where some of them are doing to have to PuG for Uldir. The only difference between us and them is that they dont use the forums.

Vocal minority argument is BS, at least in this case.
The forums are used by people of all playstyles; mythic raiders, petbattlers, hardcore PvPers, casuals... And when all of them seem to have a problem with the same couple of features, maybe it should be a red flag to some people.
That's... still a fallacy to assume that.
08/22/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Quinzal
I see the terms "vocal minority" and "silent majority" thrown around a lot, and that changes shouldn't be made just because some forum nerds decided to voice their opinion.

Well...

1. The forums are used by people of all playstyles; mythic raiders, petbattlers, hardcore PvPers, casuals... And when all of them seem to have a problem with the same couple of features, maybe it should be a red flag to some people.

2. If the forums really are a vocal minority, then its Blizzard's fault for failing to collect sufficient data from everyone else playing the game. Dont fault people voicing concerns for just voicing their concerns.

3.
But the people who dont have issues are playing the game, as they should be

Hard to believe. I've had several friends tell me that their guilds and raid teams have been hemorrhaging active members and subs since people started hitting 120, to the point where some of them are doing to have to PuG for Uldir. The only difference between us and them is that they dont use the forums.

Vocal minority argument is BS, at least in this case.
Sir not sure what your talking about no need for all that mess just need to press one button the lfr mode button.
Look, here's the blunt truth.

When people try to use majority/minority arguments, it's because they want to claim they are the majority, most agree with them, so it's what should be done 'because the customer is always right'

Never ever ever ever ever EVER will such people back that up with hard numbers showing they have majority opinion. They might link something that doesn't relate at all like "look at wow sub numbers! I'm right about my particular narrow complaint!"

Don't treat any of that any more seriously than hot air.. unless they can back it up.

They can't though - and won't.
08/22/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Quinzal
2. If the forums really are a vocal minority, then its Blizzard's fault for failing to collect sufficient data from everyone else playing the game. Dont fault people voicing concerns for just voicing their concerns.


Just because they are not actively polling all players does not mean they are not collecting meaningful data. I am sure they have data scientists that collect and analyze key metrics that help them understand customer satisfaction well beyond the "vocal minority" on the forums. I am sure they understand the percentages of players that do certain activities (i.e. PVP vs PVE), percentages of players that flag for war mode, etc.

That is the way businesses like these should be run, utilizing factual data points to make business decisions, and not the "vocal minority".

Just my two cents...
It's really hilarious seeing people chime that the forums are a vocal minority, when in every General chat I've entered during events someone has always whispered me saying "Wow! I've seen you on the forums! I don't post, but I've seen you"

How much of a "minority" can we actually be when we're essentially recognized in-game for being so unimportant and voiceless?

08/22/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Quinzal
I've had several friends tell me that their guilds and raid teams have been hemorrhaging active members and subs since people started hitting 120, to the point where some of them are doing to have to PuG for Uldir.
Honestly guilds have been hemorrhaging players for some years now. Guilds just cannibalize each other, and if yours isn't good enough to do that then it's dead.

I hope during this expansion we will be able to see another casual-hardcore raiding scene, but after the damage that Legion did I'm not optimistic. I guess there's no legendaries dictating how relevant you are now. So that's a plus.
08/22/2018 12:04 PMPosted by Snowfox
Look, here's the blunt truth.

When people try to use majority/minority arguments, it's because they want to claim they are the majority, most agree with them, so it's what should be done 'because the customer is always right'

Never ever ever ever ever EVER will such people back that up with hard numbers showing they have majority opinion. They might link something that doesn't relate at all like "look at wow sub numbers! I'm right about my particular narrow complaint!"

Don't treat any of that any more seriously than hot air.. unless they can back it up.

They can't though - and won't.
100% fact!
Good insight, thank you.
They should make grinding the forums necessary for rep gains so that we can get some clear, hard, fully-representative data, here.
08/22/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Quinzal
I see the terms "vocal minority" and "silent majority" thrown around a lot, and that changes shouldn't be made just because some forum nerds decided to voice their opinion.

Well...

1. The forums are used by people of all playstyles; mythic raiders, petbattlers, hardcore PvPers, casuals... And when all of them seem to have a problem with the same couple of features, maybe it should be a red flag to some people.


Hear hear!
.... so this is about unlocking Allied Races, right?
08/22/2018 12:12 PMPosted by Whysilyn
08/22/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Quinzal
I see the terms "vocal minority" and "silent majority" thrown around a lot, and that changes shouldn't be made just because some forum nerds decided to voice their opinion.

Well...

1. The forums are used by people of all playstyles; mythic raiders, petbattlers, hardcore PvPers, casuals... And when all of them seem to have a problem with the same couple of features, maybe it should be a red flag to some people.


Hear hear!
.... so this is about unlocking Allied Races, right?

If you want it to be.
People seem to take it really hard if they have to confront the idea that their opinion isn't the majority opinion.
1. The forums are used by people of all playstyles; mythic raiders, petbattlers, hardcore PvPers, casuals... And when all of them seem to have a problem with the same couple of features,


Your very first point is a fallacious argument. You're just making stuff up.
How do you know it's a majority if they're silent?
The real truth is, only a minority play this game.

You have to think this game once carried 12 million players at a certain point in history.

And estimating that WoW is retaining a mere fraction of that leaves the question who really is the "majority" anyways?

Sure people who don't play anymore, quit because of 'real life' issues, fair enough. But another factor this self-proclaimed current "majority" dismisses, is that the quality of this game has gone down over the years, that those of the former 12 million felt forced to leave their game due to bordem and pandering to a lower caste of player, and when "honeymoon phases" of new expansions happen, all the returning players come back, see the current state, see nothing changed (or it did for the worse) then leave right away.

>Grandpa_Simpson_in_a_bawdy_house.gif

...these are the real majority, itching to immerse themselves into the game they have a love/hate relationship with.

Small changes like Pathfinders make all the difference because it shows who really wants to play this game, and those who just want to trivialize it all for their 'instant-gratification' (the same types who believe they are the majority). Yet, there are people like myself who enjoy Pathfinders as a goal post to work towards, a reason to keep subbing. The 'good' kind of grinding that keeps me interested. Pay more subs.

But the 'others' don't like that. And history has proven if you take away the 'struggle' in the game, more people will be more inclined to quit.

So again, who really is the "majority/minority" here?
08/22/2018 12:17 PMPosted by Cambraddon
How do you know it's a majority if they're silent?

Exactly.

08/22/2018 12:16 PMPosted by Kurgaz
1. The forums are used by people of all playstyles; mythic raiders, petbattlers, hardcore PvPers, casuals... And when all of them seem to have a problem with the same couple of features,


Your very first point is a fallacious argument. You're just making stuff up.

Okay, maybe the pet battlers aren't having issues. I've heard very real and serious complaints from every other group though.
08/22/2018 12:15 PMPosted by Kypar
People seem to take it really hard if they have to confront the idea that their opinion isn't the majority opinion.


And others are content sharing their own opinions without caring whether they are in the majority. I'm content expressing my feedback/opinions and leaving it to Blizzard to decide whether (a) enough people agree with me to make my feedback significant, and (b) they want to adjust their game in response to such feedback.
08/22/2018 12:04 PMPosted by Snowfox
Look, here's the blunt truth.

When people try to use majority/minority arguments, it's because they want to claim they are the majority, most agree with them, so it's what should be done 'because the customer is always right'

Never ever ever ever ever EVER will such people back that up with hard numbers showing they have majority opinion. They might link something that doesn't relate at all like "look at wow sub numbers! I'm right about my particular narrow complaint!"

Don't treat any of that any more seriously than hot air.. unless they can back it up.

They can't though - and won't.


But even if they can, it wouldn't make their position correct. Most people can believe a thing is true, but that doesn't make that thing necessarily true.
08/22/2018 12:22 PMPosted by Quinzal
Okay, maybe the pet battlers aren't having issues. I've heard very real and serious complaints from every other group though.
You're still claiming "all". Which will always be untrue.

The best you can ever do is talk about your ideas. Don't talk about other people's support (or lack thereof) for ideas. Talk about the ideas themselves.
Well here's my thing. Already noticing undesirable gates on stuff, and I read the forums every day. SO, here's the biggest complaint, stuff is over tuned, and the mobs get harder as I gear to a point, I may never reach.

Why may I never reach it?, because I won't raid or seriously dungeon (mythics). There is a definite, unneeded proof, large player base in the same boat.

Forums rarely cover a large percentage of players. Blizzard stopped reporting sub numbers for a reason. They're heading majorly south, except in places where people have a proclivity for playing till they drop no matter what the game, and you know where I mean. And a lot of those, pay by the hour or cards at least.

Somewhere between rhetoric and the truth, lies the truth. Where there is smoke, there is fire.

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