Blue response to scaling: "nah it's fine"

General Discussion
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08/27/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Ragingcoup
To be fair, the post I saw, was some dude who vendored his ring and made the mob lose like, 300 health, but gave up 3% haste and 2% crit for it. I'm like, man, we should all do that, this way our moonfire had to tick one less time! Even though the secondary stats probably would have made the kill faster.

I don't know how this scaling seems so complicated to people, it's been around for a while now. We had this conversation back in legion and people unequipped items then too for the very nominal dip in health like it was some huge advantage.

It doesn't take long after hitting 120 where you get gear and the mobs aren't very threatening anymore. It makes the first few hours after hitting max level harder than it was before scaling, and that's about it.


So it's been around while...suck still sucks...stupid is still stupid.

That is to say, scaling is the suck and is stupid.

In fact it's garbage.
08/27/2018 02:27 PMPosted by Hrødric
Dude it really is.
I am not even high enough and I am killing everything fast.
Stop complaining.
You're a hunter. Try playing something like an spriest or ele shaman and tell me it's fine. Because it's not. Maybe with heroic raid gear it will feel decent again, but at that point I'm going to be exalted with everyone and ignore WQ's.
08/27/2018 03:58 PMPosted by Zeropointt
Seriously, I'm not wearing a single piece of Mythic gear and WQ's are now giving me gear at better than Heroic dungeon ilvl, equal to Heroic Titanforge in some cases.
My Azerite gear is all from WQ, even the 340 piece.
It's not even a question of "git gud", it's a question of "just keep grinding your ilvl up and you'll be geared for N Uldir in about 3 weeks".


That also.
The rewards from world quests scale A LOT BETTER then Legion.
I am having a blast this expansion. Nothing to complain so far.

08/27/2018 04:17 PMPosted by Grimmwolfe
08/27/2018 02:27 PMPosted by Hrødric
Dude it really is.
I am not even high enough and I am killing everything fast.
Stop complaining.
You're a hunter. Try playing something like an spriest or ele shaman and tell me it's fine. Because it's not. Maybe with heroic raid gear it will feel decent again, but at that point I'm going to be exalted with everyone and ignore WQ's.


If you can’t gear with the dailies (those gears are scaling a lot better then Legion) then I am sorry but you need to improve buddy. It takes no effort whatsoever to gear doing those dailies. I am not even pass honored with my DK on anything and I am already mythic ready.
08/27/2018 04:07 PMPosted by Althasar
08/27/2018 03:57 PMPosted by Ryukden
Not every class/spec has been reworked yet and there are definitely some out there that are struggling. There's no comparison between the teeth pulling experience my shaman had vs the super easy time my hunter has doing the same content with much lower ilvl. Simply put 'YMMV'


So is this an issue about scaling or class balance? Because you guys seem to be chewing the devs out about the former.


Why are you asking me to speak for other people? That's just weird. The scaling sucks more for some classes/specs than others, but I'm generally not a fan of it at all. If something is going to get stronger as I do, it should reward better stuff when it dies. Not doing that means it's not a system actually put in place for my benefit but used to artificially hamper people and not everyone enjoys mythics or the people that tend to run them. So it might get better once you hit a magic ilvl but all it really does for me is requiring about the same amount of time investment regardless of the fact that I moved up about 35 ilvls since cap.

I have limited time to play so being able to maximize that time is my priority, but now I'm supposed to wait for wq's to forge up or deal with elitists in that group finder because apparently mythics are the supposedly new heroics besides the weekly lockouts and not being able to use the dungeon tool like we used to for heroics.
08/27/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Ythisens
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


Hardly the point.

Mobs shouldn't gain power simply because I do.

Scaling is absolutely stupid. Things that were 110 shouldn't get experience patrolling the same spot for 3 weeks. if you're going to do that for mobs, let me rested just become experience and I'll call it even..

oh, you won't do that? then they shouldn't get it free either.

Scaling is a Stupid idea.
08/27/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Älexandra
this was never an issue in older expansions.

people leveled to max level, and had fun when they got gear and stomped everything in the older content. that's what an mmo is, you get strong and go back and have fun lording over all the stupid crap you had to fight before.


The world also never scaled to max level and had rewards that were determined based on your character's item level either.

As I'm sure you remember, even WITH this scaling in place in Legion, people still one shot mobs. You just aren't there yet.
Because the game has been out for less than three weeks.

I'm really surprised how many people forget this, honestly.
I mean, how much power do you think you have even gained when the FIRST RAID TIER isn't even out yet?
I like to think the people making these kind of post are the same people who impressively manage to pull sub 1k dps in a heroic at a 320ilvl.

It's a git gud issue, not a scaling issue.
08/27/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Ythisens
If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


Pretty sure people, including myself, have done that for months on the numerous overly strong elites in WoD without seeing any changes.
08/27/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Ythisens
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


Worked fine for 12 years. Don't see any other reason other than slowdown, when you take into account everything.
08/27/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Ythisens
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


One of the big problems are the weapon drops while leveling. You get next to nothing.
08/27/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Ythisens
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


But the scaling in Normal DGs are broken. People below 120 are doing more damage than the 120 ones and thats wrong, really wrong.
08/27/2018 04:23 PMPosted by Dustyy
08/27/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Ythisens
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


Worked fine for 12 years. Don't see any other reason other than slowdown, when you take into account everything.


Could you get amazing gear doing those world quests before? Again the scaling gear you get for those world quests are amazingly good. A casual can get mythic ready without even farm heroics. Just will take a few more time.
Also the game evolve.
08/27/2018 03:44 PMPosted by Tuckered
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


If anything, I hope these discussions make you guys on the dev/design side say, in response to the bold up top: "We feel it, but the players don't. Perhaps we aren't interpreting the experience the same."

I'm glad your experience is good, but I hope you take, in good faith, that many others' experiences are not.


I appreciate this post a lot. It speaks volumes as to what the community is actually feeling vs what the developers want us to feel. The reality is we're not all having the same experience, I agree I feel weak on some of my toons and stronger on others. The blue plays a Ret Pally, probably the most overpowered spec in game right now with massive survival, self sustain, and strong AoE. I often find myself pulling 4-5 mobs and struggling because I don't have Enraged Regeneration off cooldown as Fury and it honestly shouldn't be that way nor should I feel weaker because of a class I decided to play.
I named myself Antivaxer because of the affliction warlock spec. I loved the thing. However, I switched to Demonology because I found progressively as I leveled Affliction was becoming more and more crap. Maybe it is my rotation as someone else pointed out. Maybe I do need to "Git Gud".

My experience has been pretty meh so far. I enjoyed leveling up and the story but WQ mobs are frustrating to kill. Shadowbolt takes a little to cast. Demonbolt or whatever it is called I don't use unless I open with it or it is on insta-cast. I think haste reduction has made getting the gear painful. Am I really alone in this and I'm just terrible at this game?

The scaling is noticeable in a way it wasn't in Legion or I have my rose colored glasses on. It sure feels different. I get the game just came out and that we're all undergeared nooblets essentially but I'd really like to feel powerful again. Slogging mindlessly through these mobs at a snail's pace isn't cutting it for me.

Again, I'm completely willing to believe that this is just me and my experience as a shoddy player. I haven't done no Icy-Vein readups or anything. I will after posting this out of curiosity and hopefully this will enable me to be better at the class because as it stands right now I don't feel like doing WQs. Or anything.
My main issue with the scaling is that it isn't the gear you're wearing, but all the gear in your bags as well. That seems broken as hell. When you get a higher item level piece that is a downgrade due to the wrong itemization, you know you've just buffed all of the mobs in the world without getting an upgrade and it feels AWFUL.
Why are you keeping the item in your bags if it is a downgrade....that makes no sense whatsoever.
08/27/2018 04:20 PMPosted by Metrohaha
As I'm sure you remember, even WITH this scaling in place in Legion, people still one shot mobs. You just aren't there yet.
Because the game has been out for less than three weeks.

I'm really surprised how many people forget this, honestly.
I mean, how much power do you think you have even gained when the FIRST RAID TIER isn't even out yet?

The problem isn't that we just don't outgear stuff. The issue is that you feel weaker at max level than you did while leveling. I shouldn't have to spend time at max level gearing just to feel as strong as I did four levels earlier (and I didn't exactly feel like Superman then).
08/27/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Ythisens
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.
It's really not a big deal... You outscale the mobs super fast anyways.
The devs are really out of touch.
08/27/2018 04:20 PMPosted by Metrohaha


The world also never scaled to max level and had rewards that were determined based on your character's item level either.


Then why are quests still rewarding me lower ilvl rewards? Oh do you mean world quests? Because with the exception of very few they cap out at 320-325

08/27/2018 04:20 PMPosted by Metrohaha

As I'm sure you remember, even WITH this scaling in place in Legion, people still one shot mobs. You just aren't there yet.


It was also introduced in 7.2 when people had artifact weapons at a decent level and legendaries. Oh and more skills.

08/27/2018 04:20 PMPosted by Metrohaha

Because the game has been out for less than three weeks.

I'm really surprised how many people forget this, honestly.
I mean, how much power do you think you have even gained when the FIRST RAID TIER isn't even out yet?


Because people are giving feedback on how the scaling feels to them at the start of an expansion. You know, part of what forums are for. I have alts I'd like to level but the experience after a certain point really makes me not want to bother. I'm using the forums to express this to blizzard.

Since you're talking about legion when we hit 120 we unlocked an entire zone that was locked off until that point and an entire new faction to work on. The only thing similar we have are the very few quests we have available on the opposite factions islands and some gated behind grinding world quests. We reached that point a few times when working on the elves but before that we had a plethora of quests to do there but a lot more to do once we reached reputation milestones.

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