Blue response to scaling: "nah it's fine"

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To piggyback on your post: I've noticed melee specs can handle open world NPCs better. This is mostly due to the damaging toolkit having no cast times (just a GCD, but oh well).

Casters do have it worse than melee. But if you're playing a bursty spec, you'll see much more success. If casters had more AOE Kiting capabilities, casters would be far superior due to their ability to ignore most damage outright, rather than "kill it before it kills you" a melee spec must endure.

I've leveled a warlock and death knight. Warlock is at 344+ and my DK is sitting 330+. Burst is king. Burst will always be king in normal questing.


Try a boomie.

Even at what...320? More than two mobs and dead. DK have Sindragosas, the dragon, other aoe. Warlocks have pets demo, destro....they both have much better AOE.

New Moon was just NERFED which was one our stronger single target talents.

Try Nazmir, those small mobs? They will swamp and kiill you in seconds.

That and the lack of good weapons leaves a hole in our rotations, it doesnt help when you are being dragged down by slots that have a much lower ilevel..that and the haste which is now in single digits.

I am at 8%.

8% haste.

On a caster.

Again, the secondary stats are a major issue across the board...we have three slots with NO secondary stats on them. Why?

Add that to the changes to our specs after the artifact weapons were taken away and we have a massive drop in player power.

Part of this problem, and disagree if you wish I dont care, its that a lot of what we had with artifact weapons was NOT baked in, and Id prefer to have had new moon as BASELINE not a damned talent.

Look at the talent line at 100. If New Moon was baseline I could have that AND Shooting Stars or Fury of Elune, both of which are useful in single target and AOE.

They took New Moon away and then regifted it as a talent. Then NERFED it.

I get where the devs are coming from but the transition was too much of a slam stop from Legion.

We should have kept more than we did, and it shows.
08/27/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Ythisens
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


I'm curious, have you ever played an elemental shaman? :)
If so, how was your questing experience compared to other classes/specs?
08/27/2018 03:44 PMPosted by Tuckered
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


If anything, I hope these discussions make you guys on the dev/design side say, in response to the bold up top: "We feel it, but the players don't. Perhaps we aren't interpreting the experience the same."

I'm glad your experience is good, but I hope you take, in good faith, that many others' experiences are not.
I'm losing my mind since when was max level content supposed to be easy as hell before raiding has even started? what is going on these days lol
Honestly when are you going to balance feral healing. Or Ret utility/healing. Or Rogues just straight OP-ness. I mean there is a fxking reason why everyone is playing those classes. Balance them for f sake.
well it's all still killable even the rares. I am 304 I think it is item level was 283 when hit 120 some take more than 3 hits but nothing has be bad unless I pull more than 3 sometime more than 2
08/27/2018 03:45 PMPosted by Cyouskin
To piggyback on your post: I've noticed melee specs can handle open world NPCs better. This is mostly due to the damaging toolkit having no cast times (just a GCD, but oh well).

Not to mention the amount of stuns/interrupts/knockbacks there are. On my druid it's driving me up the freaking wall, no wonder so many people picked melee over casters.
08/27/2018 04:30 PMPosted by Arithawn
Why are you keeping the item in your bags if it is a downgrade....that makes no sense whatsoever.


Because sometimes things change and different stats can be better after hotfixes or patches. Who's to say those underwhelming azerite traits won't get a buff? Why are you defending a system where it might be more advantageous to have to destroy something than to hang onto it? This is my question.
08/27/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Ythisens
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


My question would become: Why is the open world balanced around being relevant for mythic geared players when not everyone is going to do mythics?

This is what results in a lot of people complaining about the scaling. Because they do not get over the hump you guys made and instead wind up giving up in gearing because it does not feel like it matters.

It would be different if it was a end game zone of the expansion where you would need to gear up to be effective there, like was the case with argus.

You also need to take into account class design.

On my Disc Priest EVERYTHING is a slog to cut through. Only by virtue of being nearly immortal due to shields, heals, and debuff shields do I chip my way through world quests.

On my Havoc Demon Hunter I am built entirely around Eye Beam giving me the haste I need to try to chip as fast as possible through mobs. I built for an 8 second burst. After that it becomes a series of chipping until Eye Beam is back up.

On my Marksman Hunter I either burst the mobs down or I chip the mobs down if my burst does not proc.

My friend pretty much gave up on their affliction warlock except for doing old content.
Scaling has completely ruined the game... it's just the lazy way out for convenience. There is absolutely zero threat and challenge in this game anymore and its pathetic, its all easy and extreme replayed content. Your whole leveling experience from 110-120 is scaled mobs that provide no real threat to you, with scaled quest that are just so brainless, turns your brain into a mushy twitch chat spammer.

World Quest ( which are the same EXACT quest you did leveling from 110-120 -- like.... WTF? Hello?? ) it's so disgustingly lazy. I can't even get myself to level an alt, when every other expansion I've done without zero hesitation. Everything you do is just so easy and feels boring. I don't even have to think about anything when I'm killing mobs, just spam my buttons brainlessly and it's dead. You don't get punished for anything in this game anymore, legit only rewarded for being a bozo. Does anyone feel like this game is being designed for the kids with bibs on twitch chat?

The game needs some of long lost old devs who created it who are long gone who showed true compassion and love, sadly that will never happen. These new generation developers Blizzard are hiring are pushing this casualization agenda-style type of game play far too long. Like honestly, whats going on over there? Can we please start getting some bad asses back at Blizzard? Everything you do in this game now never genuinely feels rewarding anymore when all you do is faceroll repetitive content for that sweet Titanforge proc. LOL. Like c'mon... really?

Don't even get me started with the lore. Since Metzen has left, it's been a vomit roller coaster ride.

I will say this though.. the game is straight up getting carried by the arts and cinematic department -- aesthetically beyond beautiful. Who ever people that is part of these departments, I thank you for your hard work -- you people are the ones that genuinely deserve a nice raise.

FIX YOUR GAME. STOP THE CASUALIZATION AGENDA.
08/27/2018 04:30 PMPosted by Arithawn
My main issue with the scaling is that it isn't the gear you're wearing, but all the gear in your bags as well. That seems broken as hell. When you get a higher item level piece that is a downgrade due to the wrong itemization, you know you've just buffed all of the mobs in the world without getting an upgrade and it feels AWFUL.
Why are you keeping the item in your bags if it is a downgrade....that makes no sense whatsoever.

...multiple specs? Also as I get other upgrades my stat priority can change and that piece may sim higher in the future.
I just hit 120 and it was all still super fast and easy.
08/27/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Ythisens
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


With all due respect, while I personally don’t think the scaling is that big an issue, Blues/dev team since Legion Alpha seem to be very ready to discount negative player responses to implentations rather often. That’s what the OP is really talking about. For many people, the scaling that keeps getting mentioned IS an issue, and has been since it was implemented in Legion. I can understand the value in it, but I can also understand the distaste others have for it. Continuing to tell folks to submit reports for specific mobs isn’t going to address this.

While it’s impossible to make everyone happy, my recommendation would be the WoW team needs to acknowledge their PR issue and brainstorm a more effective way of handling it.
08/27/2018 04:34 PMPosted by Aehl
Try a boomie.

There are very, very, very few players in the world with more Balance Druid expertise and knowledge than myself. I'll give you a few guesses as to why my main of 8+ years is still lvl 110.

I spent all of Beta trying to get Balance Druid fixed. We got the gameplay and talents fixed for raiding, but questing was still gonna suck.

I know it sucks. I moved on to something that I'd enjoy playing.
08/27/2018 03:45 PMPosted by Sephrinx
Why don't the rewards for things such as WQ scale with the difficulty of the mobs?

Example. I do a World Quest at 330 item level, it rewards 40 War Resources.

Then, I come back at 440 item level, fighting through harder mobs that do more damage and have more health, and it STILL rewards 40 War Resources...

Where the mobs have grown in power, and become more difficult due to scaling, why do we not get 60 War Resources from these quests?

It is so stupid. Don't just make the Equipment scale (which it's already obsolete at my paltry 340 item level, I don't need 320 or 325), make ALL THE REWARDS scale.


They're not harder - they are the same relative to your new level. Why would you get more war resources?
08/27/2018 04:39 PMPosted by Iirissa


My question would become: Why is the open world balanced around being relevant for mythic geared players when not everyone is going to do mythics?

[/quote]

It's not, its balanced around where we're going to be in a month or so from now
08/27/2018 03:40 PMPosted by Ythisens
I understand the concern about wanting to feel yourself get stronger but you still actually do, the world just feels a little relevant for a little longer and I think it achieves that. On my main I've already far outpaced it and at 341 I feel like a god again. I can pull a large number of mobs and easily handle them all and churn through WQs pretty quickly.

I even leveled an alt up and geared it this weekend up to almost 320 ilvl and it felt just as fine as it did the first time. When I hit 120 I noticed the mobs were a little stronger and I was having to be a little more careful but not by much and that didn't last long at all.

If you're finding mobs that do individually feel strange you should bug report them so the team can look into it but the system as a whole is working fine at least from my experience.


How did you gear up? (also what class were you playing as that seems to matter)

Dungeons? World Quests?

Are us poor solo players going to be able to get to a good place or are we going to need to do group content just to feel decent in the open world?
Mobs scaling with you while leveling to make each zone relevant while leveling is fine, but once you hit max level scaling needs to stop. iLvl scaling is a slap in the face to anyone who plans on continuing to gear up after hitting max level.
On my Disc Priest EVERYTHING is a slog to cut through. Only by virtue of being nearly immortal due to shields, heals, and debuff shields do I chip my way through world quests.


Healers aren't supposed to be able to quest efficiently.
08/27/2018 04:39 PMPosted by Sentien
...multiple specs?


I got lucky with drops on my resto shaman and it's about 338 ilvl, my enhance on the other hand is 332. I'm already squishy but scaling the world mobs to my healing gear means they take longer to kill and thus make me use my resource for healing to stay alive rather than using it to dps. They really need to set up a system where that's not the case. I understand some want to game the system and that's an issue to them, but the supposed solution is making it a lot more difficult for me.

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