AV needs balancing

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08/10/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Dalmar
08/10/2018 02:31 PMPosted by Jugajr
...Luckily it’s not up to you to decide. I tweeted the other well written thread to some devs so we shall see what happens, if anything.
True, and I'm glad its not up to you. Blizzard seems to agree with me for now and I'm glad.
We shall see. They pretty much just saw the thread about an hour ago.
No ones asking to flip the map to be Alliance favored.

We're looking to have a discussion on how to evolve AV.

The IB choke is the best stop measure on the map. It allows Horde to defend four towers, a mine, three flags and Drek. Galv is defendable too but it weakens the choke if you do.

A ramp going up by the IB rez point would mirror the multiple ways to SH GY.

The choke would still be good as we risk running into a rez wave going up the ramp.

I would like thoughts from our Prime and SPM friends. They know the map as well we do.
08/10/2018 02:52 PMPosted by Jugajr
We shall see. They pretty much just saw the thread about an hour ago.
And if they note history, they won't change it. There was the EXACT same QQ last time when the last expansion came out. By the end of the expansion alliance was STILL over 50% win rate (now). It doesn't need to be changed, numbers don't lie.
08/10/2018 03:09 PMPosted by Dalmar
08/10/2018 02:52 PMPosted by Jugajr
We shall see. They pretty much just saw the thread about an hour ago.
And if they note history, they won't change it. There was the EXACT same QQ last time when the last expansion came out. By the end of the expansion alliance was STILL over 50% win rate (now). It doesn't need to be changed, numbers don't lie.
Except they have made terrain changes as noted by Jadei. And yes historically Pre-Patch AV is like this. Difference now is this is our AV going forward so it’s perfectly fine to ask for a small adjustment. As the blue noted they are taking feedback and may make changes.
08/09/2018 09:49 PMPosted by Emeli
I have played 1395 RBGs with a 38% win rate.


LOl witha win ratio like this you should just quit holy heck rip dude.
the only mode that i have 0 victory in. weird.
Let's talk about map imbalances.

Ever notice that all the archers in horde towers in AV cannot strike a player who is attempting to cap the tower flag, but all the archers in the alliance towers can?

Ever notice that the Frostwolf relief hut is all by itself with a nice big area to kite the guards, but the alliance aid station is so close to all the npcs that it's very easy to accidentally aggro them?

Ever notice the north and south bunker archers can reach the alliance aid station flag and interrupt cappers, but the east and west frostwolf tower archers cannot reach the relief hut flag?

Ever notice frostwolf GY is a big open indefensible mess, while SP GY only has 2 ways in, one of which is the worst choke point in the game?

Remember when you could just hop over the horde fence and go around our towers to get into our base, but the alliance base has a long narrow bridge that a couple elemental shamans and/or boomkin can easily hold with their knockback spells?

Alliance won the vast majority of AV matches for years because the map is built greatly in their favor for PVE races. IB choke is the horde's only strong point. Now that epic BGs are a separate queue, meaning that players who are in AV actually WANT to be in AV and not to simply end the match as quickly as possible, horde are actually defending and now the win rates are about even. BOO HOO it's not an auto win for alliance any more, you poor babies. Please deposit more of your tears on the forums every day.
08/10/2018 10:42 AMPosted by Jugajr
08/10/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Srath
If you change the horde chokepoint you basically have to re-design the entire alliance main base...
bridge of death


The bridge you can avoid? Maybe I should stop talking about this if people don't know how to avoid the bridge.


I dont consider a cheat/exploit of a warlock gateway as a reasonable strategy, for either side
Alliance won the vast majority of AV matches for years because the map is built greatly in their favor for PVE races.
PvE races came down to who dps’d the boss down better. Points to whichever faction backcapped and defended what they assaulted till they burned. Now is a game of reinforcements where the choke points are not nearly close to equal. Blizzard fixed both archers (pointed them outwards so they don’t shoot at players taking flag) and fixed the hill alliance could use to jump into hordes keep. Those were two complaints horde had and blizzard fixed them.
08/10/2018 04:12 PMPosted by Srath
08/10/2018 10:42 AMPosted by Jugajr
...

The bridge you can avoid? Maybe I should stop talking about this if people don't know how to avoid the bridge.


I dont consider a cheat/exploit of a warlock gateway as a reasonable strategy, for either side
Don’t even need a gateway. It just helps the team get over quicker.
I'm still waiting for a constructive discussion instead of , "wah wah, you only want to win more!", posts.
So what are the proposed terrain fixes?

1. Make the hill in front of IBGY climbable?

or

2. Cut off the backside access to SHB?
08/10/2018 04:21 PMPosted by Joeboô
So what are the proposed terrain fixes?

1. Make the hill in front of IBGY climbable?

or

2. Cut off the backside access to SHB?
One suggestion I liked was a ramp leading up to IBGY. It’s not perfect since the res spawn is there and I know Horde would rather not be GY camped there so I am open to other ideas.
08/10/2018 04:21 PMPosted by Joeboô
So what are the proposed terrain fixes?

1. Make the hill in front of IBGY climbable?

or

2. Cut off the backside access to SHB?


Block the side paths by Belinda's bunker. SHB is still exposed but it forces Horde down a long narrow path to SH GY.
08/10/2018 04:25 PMPosted by Jugajr
One suggestion I liked was a ramp leading up to IBGY. It’s not perfect since the res spawn is there and I know Horde would rather not be GY camped there so I am open to other ideas.


1. Put in the ramp.

2. Swap the node and the rezz spots. Let Horde rez at the fork (behind the big hill) and put the node at the top of the ramp.

This would give Horde some LoS to spawn, but put the node in harms way at the ramp.
08/10/2018 04:17 PMPosted by Jugajr
PvE races came down to who dps’d the boss down better.


And alliance frequently had a head start on that due to all the reasons I outlined above.
08/10/2018 04:36 PMPosted by Littlegreen
08/10/2018 04:17 PMPosted by Jugajr
PvE races came down to who dps’d the boss down better.


And alliance frequently had a head start on that due to all the reasons I outlined above.
Wrong. I’ve been in plenty of Zerg wins as Horde. Reason Alliance won was backcapping after killing Galv.
08/10/2018 03:41 PMPosted by Littlegreen
Let's talk about map imbalances.

Ever notice that all the archers in horde towers in AV cannot strike a player who is attempting to cap the tower flag, but all the archers in the alliance towers can?

Ever notice that the Frostwolf relief hut is all by itself with a nice big area to kite the guards, but the alliance aid station is so close to all the npcs that it's very easy to accidentally aggro them?

Ever notice the north and south bunker archers can reach the alliance aid station flag and interrupt cappers, but the east and west frostwolf tower archers cannot reach the relief hut flag?

Ever notice frostwolf GY is a big open indefensible mess, while SP GY only has 2 ways in, one of which is the worst choke point in the game?

Remember when you could just hop over the horde fence and go around our towers to get into our base, but the alliance base has a long narrow bridge that a couple elemental shamans and/or boomkin can easily hold with their knockback spells?

Alliance won the vast majority of AV matches for years because the map is built greatly in their favor for PVE races. IB choke is the horde's only strong point. Now that epic BGs are a separate queue, meaning that players who are in AV actually WANT to be in AV and not to simply end the match as quickly as possible, horde are actually defending and now the win rates are about even. BOO HOO it's not an auto win for alliance any more, you poor babies. Please deposit more of your tears on the forums every day.


The IB choke has always been there - Horde never realized I guess, otherwise the balance over these past few years would have been different. They too preferred the boss zerg tactic, for a quick run. It is good that we are discovering hidden depths to this old BG, and being forced to play differently.

Archers and NPC damage? Really? They were never more than a minor irritant. Now though they hit damn hard so that might be an issue for a while. I'd guess as we gear up for 120 they will soon become irritants again, unless they scale with our gear as well.

As for the bridge - there is a way around via DB South bunker. Used very effectively on first few days of this pre-patch. And bridge knock-offs work quite well for both sides.

The FWGY and SPGY positions do seem unbalanced.

As for an easy win - no tears here - just want a fair game. I do play Horde as well.
If we wanted easy wins we wouldn't also be looking at bolstering the defense of SH GY.

I love the long hard fought games. Many of us have been begging Blizzard to put AV in its own queue for years. It finally happened. Now it's time to ask for overdue adjustments.

Also stop judging us by the avatar we post on. Most of us play both sides.
08/10/2018 04:40 PMPosted by Emeli
Archers and NPC damage? Really? They were never more than a minor irritant. Now though they hit damn hard so that might be an issue for a while. I'd guess as we gear up for 120 they will soon become irritants again, unless they scale with our gear as well.


It matters when it interrupts flag caps, high damage or not.

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