PVP scaling catastrophically broken

War Mode and World PvP
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08/26/2018 07:23 AMPosted by Xadie
08/26/2018 07:12 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
I have 120s tard, and now fails like you are ganking lowbies in groups left and right. This wasn't a fix cause the scale got tilted to much in one direction. Xadie your opinion matters the least, you don't want a balanced scaling you just want to be able destroy lowbies easily.


The typical "you just want to gank lowbies" insult, how unoriginal.

War happened in Warmode, who would've thought?

Assume much?


War happened when you got your !@#$ handed to you when thw scaling allowed for lower levels to fight 120s...how you cried then. Only fun when you have the advantage? Sad, and slightly pathetic to use the gear over skill argument. Wpvp has been dead and soon as they come.up with a decent idea that's maybe workable people like you want the old days back. Minus the separation of people of different levels by area. Which result is a boatload of people getting ganked constantly by griefers. When these same people could defend themselves if Blizzards didn't take that away and make War Mode almost pointless.

If it's just going to benefit 120s, then yes might as well fully embrace the older methods and give no incentives for people to be in areas at level cap the other factions uses to progress. If I'm going to throw a bunch fighters on the blue team and give them swords and give the other side water pistols what's the fun in that?

Then again certain people like watching people get slaughtered helplessly. I kind of liked the idea of a fair fight, and gear griND should matter more in PvE not PvP. The arose kind of PvP is people getting beat over gear and not skill. And when I say lowbies having a fair chance I exclude Myrhic+/ Raiders geared 120 with leet gear there should be a threshold who can fight on near equal footing.

I just don't see how giving either side a advantage is productive to seeing War Mode being no more than a flop.
08/26/2018 07:41 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
War happened when you got your !@#$ handed to you when thw scaling allowed for lower levels to fight 120s...how you cried then.


Nope, I made a post about Venruki. A multi R1 player who at the time was 331 and lost to a 116 Druid in greens, while trolls came in and called Venruki bad. Developers made adjustments back towards a RPG progression system, sorry if you don't like to progress in a RPG.

08/26/2018 07:41 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
Only fun when you have the advantage? Sad, and slightly pathetic to use the gear over skill argument. Wpvp has been dead and soon as they come.up with a decent idea that's maybe workable people like you want the old days back. Minus the separation of people of different levels by area. Which result is a boatload of people getting ganked constantly by griefers. When these same people could defend themselves if Blizzards didn't take that away and make War Mode almost pointless.


I remember the game being fine before scaling and templates while also being the most successful. I'm referring to expansions before Legion and WoD. There was nothing wrong with how the "old days" were, people got ganked. Such is life on a PvP server and now Warmode, you can't balance Warmode because the settings are always against you. Scaling won't save you from being outnumbered as it usually is. If you're so caught up on 1v1's go to the dueler's guild or hang outside SW/Durotar, that type of setting is almost nonexistant in wpvp.

It's funny you're so desperate for insults talking about gear advantage and what not, however the gear I have doesn't help me in arena vs top players. You got 2k, grats btw. Do you think gear helped you get to that milestone or was it something else? Hmmmm...

08/26/2018 07:41 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
If it's just going to benefit 120s, then yes might as well fully embrace the older methods and give no incentives for people to be in areas at level cap the other factions uses to progress. If I'm going to throw a bunch fighters on the blue team and give them swords and give the other side water pistols what's the fun in that?


Warmode benefits everyone willing to participate, 10% is the incentive for PvE'ers. For players like me it doesn't matter whether or not their is incentive, we just like to wpvp wherever we can find it. My targets are max level players, if low levels decide to step in then good luck. You think I care if I get ganked while being low level? Not at all, it's part of the journey to max level and I find it exciting to be wary of your surroundings knowing at any moment a group can turn up and gank you. Not everyone has this mindset which is why you can turn off Warmode until you feel it's worth it or "fair."

08/26/2018 07:41 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
Then again certain people like watching people get slaughtered helplessly. I kind of liked the idea of a fair fight, and gear griND should matter more in PvE not PvP. The arose kind of PvP is people getting beat over gear and not skill. And when I say lowbies having a fair chance I exclude Myrhic+/ Raiders geared 120 with leet gear there should be a threshold who can fight on near equal footing.


Wpvp is never fair, it's not meant to be. You must know this by now, the odds in wpvp have been stacked against you since it's inception. You're more likely to run into groups more than 1v1's, so you adapt or get rolled over.

Why shouldn't gear matter in a progression based system? I play for this reason, if I didn't care for progression I would play Overwatch or Fortnite.

I will agree on one thing, a fresh 120 vs a 110 should be an equal setting. As the 120 gets more gear though that gap should get wider and wider. After the recent fix to scaling it seems that is the case now.
You're unbelievable lol. First Venruki, as Blizz stated would have died regardless and obviously you're clueless to how resto affinity is. And let's be specific we are talking about a MMORPG'S pvp system. Progression a term ironically used in PvE for a reason, please stop pewing in regards to pvp smh.

The game was different then so hardly comparable to what War Mode is now so your point isn't going to stick about the old days. And I rather not repeat what I already explained regarding lowbies and capped players having to be in same areas. The numbers being unfair is one thing but don't compound the problem with lowbies not being able to hold their own against 120 up to Heroic geared ones (which Venruki was when he lost).

And of course arenas pop up cause like I said you likely part of the ganking groups who are griefing people, you believe in team oriented pvp. By the way it has no bearing in a wpvp 1v1 or ganking setting in which we are talking. And yeah gear helps a lot in arenas ...righttt. It's a reason Blizz keeps the playing field even in Arenas as possible vs letting anyone doing high mythic just randomly decide to arena and destroy people.

And you vs "top" players remark was hilarious considering no Glad achievement or even 2700. Hate to break it to you, you arent playing top players. 2k was just me messing around with friends on few different toons no biggie.

And no one is talking about wpvp scenarios in and of itself happening is wrong. I repeat the issue needs to fixed where a 1v1 between lowbies and 120 wearing Heroic gear or less can fight on equal footing. So War Mode won't be wasted having people dislike or as you say need to turn it off just to get by.

And you want Progression and want to feel powerful like a "RPG" then head back to the environment where the idea originated go PvE get that gear and drool over your OP DPS on raid bosses where it matters.

The system won't work as intended unless changes are made so that a group of lowbies can fend for themselves moderately well against 120s. Otherwise, there no point in incentives for them to be in same areas with something like War Mode in place and one side is taking advantage of the other.
08/26/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
You're unbelievable lol. First Venruki, as Blizz stated would have died regardless and obviously you're clueless to how resto affinity is.


Blizz did a simulated fight with the Druid at lvl120 and equal ilvl, that wasn't the case during the actual fight. I'm well aware of how strong Resto Affinity is with Swiftmend.

08/26/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
The game was different then so hardly comparable to what War Mode is now so your point isn't going to stick about the old days.


Warmode is different than how fights would organically happen in the past, now it's pretty much just pre made groups rolling through World Quest areas that are also areas where players leveling is. Still doesn't change the function of what Warmode is compared to what PvP servers were in the past, I would agree that Warmode is more toxic now than what PvP servers were in the past in terms of "griefing."

At least now players should know what they are signing up for and if it isn't their style it can be turned off. Players who go into Warmode thinking that their experience will be fair aren't going to have a good time and it was the same when PvP servers were around. Meaning that at any level once you leave the starting zones you risk getting ganked, whether it be a 1v1 or 1v5.

08/26/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
And I rather not repeat what I already explained regarding lowbies and capped players having to be in same areas. The numbers being unfair is one thing but don't compound the problem with lowbies not being able to hold their own against 120 up to Heroic geared ones (which Venruki was when he lost).


Venruki was mixed with Heroic and Mythic gear and as the fight shows the Druid still did significantly more damage than him, either that's a class balance issue or it was an issue with scaling or a mix of both.

I agree that players between 110-119 should be able to hold their own against a fresh 120 but as that 120 gets more gear the gap should get wider and wider. After the recent change to scaling this seems to be the case now.

08/26/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
And of course arenas pop up cause like I said you likely part of the ganking groups who are griefing people, you believe in team oriented pvp. By the way it has no bearing in a wpvp 1v1 or ganking setting in which we are talking.


I have friends, I choose to play with them. If I see a max level player in Warmode I kill it, I feel no shame either. I also play solo sometimes and I get ganked by groups but I'm not going to complain that "war happened in warmode."
08/26/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
And yeah gear helps a lot in arenas ...righttt. It's a reason Blizz keeps the playing field even in Arenas as possible vs letting anyone doing high mythic just randomly decide to arena and destroy people.


This comment is funny because when I brought this up it was to prove that gear holds no advantage in arena when trying to push for higher ratings, even in the past when gear could carry you. It only got you so far in Arena since you were eventually going to fight players equally geared and skilled, starting out was rough while pushing rating to earn your gear while fighting players 2200+ who already had a full set. Beating teams that were higher rated and better geared felt good though.

08/26/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
And you vs "top" players remark was hilarious considering no Glad achievement or even 2700. Hate to break it to you, you arent playing top players. 2k was just me messing around with friends on few different toons no biggie.


You're being ignorant if you think you won't fight against r1's and glads on your way to higher ratings and during the times I was active in arena I encountered many known high rated players which I have lost against and also won.

If you want to call me bad for my 2400 achieve and being a duelist, that's fine. I'm disappointed that I have never got Glad but I always had fun trying to get there, facing r1's and winning is exciting.

My teams would usually get burnt out during the grind and quit, you get to a certain point where you are just facing r1's and glads on their alts who want to que but not on their mains because they don't want to tank or their rating is so high the que's take too long.

08/26/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
And you want Progression and want to feel powerful like a "RPG" then head back to the environment where the idea originated go PvE get that gear and drool over your OP DPS on raid bosses where it matters.


Why shouldn't gear matter outside of PvE? The game is based on character progression through levels and stats. It's also why I enjoy playing this game.

I wouldn't mind them bringing PvP gear back with a rating requirement on it because I'm not a particular fan of PvE, I enjoyed getting gear through arena ratings and the vendors.

Instead of telling me not to play a RPG, why don't you go play a Non-RPG since you seem to have a problem with progression.

08/26/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
The system won't work as intended unless changes are made so that a group of lowbies can fend for themselves moderately well against 120s. Otherwise, there no point in incentives for them to be in same areas with something like War Mode in place and one side is taking advantage of the other.


It's only going to get worse for lowbies here on out as 120's get more mythic gear and soon raid gear or bis pvp gear, at the end of the day lowbies should only worry about hitting max level and do the grind like everyone else does, or don't. I don't really care.
OK last round with you lol, Arenas don't matter I repeat and back then we got the same gear from the vendors pretty anyway neither here no there far as topic goes. I'm sorry you never got Glad keep pushing they handing them out around your skill range this xpac, gl. Never that big into arenas personally to take stuff like rating to heart, got my ratings off whims or boredom. Don't recall telling you you're bad but I'm sure we have all seen Glads/R1 players passing us by on the way in the 2k+ dept.

And back to that word you love so much. Go PvE like I said before if your value progression, which your gear as you said plays little parts in your beloved arenas...you understand why? Why wouldn't you want the same equal play in a pvp environment that forces lowbies to deal with nothing but capped level toons. What War Mode participants enjoy destroying people who can't fight back. It's not WPVP it's just good old fashioned ganking and grief in but in BFA unlike days passed there are rewards for it as well benefits to just being in lowbie questing areas making all the more enticing.

And who are you to say what people should be doing and enjoying?! Need to get off the pedestal bud, it's a time period before everyone caps and shouldn't be plagued with a bad system. Some of us like me have several alts and have to endure the system a lot more than others too.

My end all be all is wanting a War Mode everyone can enjoy, period. Whether you are 110 or 120. And I think honestly now that I'm thinking about it should be different types of scaling in pvp depending where you are for 120s. With them scaled more in their favor slightly when they are in their own starting areas. Or getting scaled down more when you another faction's starting area. But they just need to tweak better, soon those Mystic raiders on bis gear will see no benefits outside of griefing players in lowbie starting areas. Which should be taken into consideration. Wouldn't mind pvp vendors coming back long as it bring advantage to players who pvp vs someone in PvE like Resilience used to.
08/26/2018 10:53 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
Why wouldn't you want the same equal play in a pvp environment that forces lowbies to deal with nothing but capped level toons.


It's not a PvP environment, Arena is a PvP environment. Battlegrounds are a PvP environment. The world is a PvE environment with PvP as an optional attraction to partake in.

08/26/2018 10:53 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
Some of us like me have several alts and have to endure the system a lot more than others too


You don't have to endure anything, you are doing it to yourself since it is optional.
WAR MODE puts you into a pvp active zone with other players looking to do the same. So yes you are in a pvp enabled environment otherwise you would be sharded with people of like mind who play without War Mode on. And some of us like PvP so we want the system they have in place to work intended. Since it's fresh they need to look at it with new eyes and not base a new system with implements from old mechanics.
08/26/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
WAR MODE puts you into a pvp active zone with other players looking to do the same. So yes you are in a pvp enabled environment otherwise you would be sharded with people of like mind who play without War Mode on. And some of us like PvP so we want the system they have in place to work intended. Since it's fresh they need to look at it with new eyes and not base a new system with implements from old mechanics.


That's not how I see it, it's more a PvE environment imo with PvP still being optional even with Warmode on whereas Battlegrounds and Arena are built around player's fighting eachother to win something.
PvP Mode is pretty much that it's just using real world environment to accomplish it. PVP is not optional once you click it on and running around in the world anyway more like a over size BG. Because players are fighting you and anyone else whether you like it or not for honor points and just because they want some action.
08/26/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
PVP is not optional once you click it on


My experience with Warmode is players running away more than actually wanting to fight even in a 1v1 setting, this wouldn't be the case in Arena or BG. When I say optional I mean I can choose to gank someone or not. Warmode to me is a PvE sandbox game with PvP elements kind of like GTA Online except their is no passive mode in place other than to go to your city and turn it off if you don't want to be griefed anymore.

Most players in Warmode are there for the bonus instead of fighting eachother and when they feel the bonus is no longer worth it they turn it off.
Regardless what I mean it is you are in a PvP setting despite priorly regarding it as a PvE thing like before. Reason you are literally sharded like people in a instance there "for" PvP to be engaged rather you want it or not. Thus you want the system running smooth as possible. What you are in it for is on you but what it is there for is PvP.
I think the system you want would only work if gear and lvls no longer mattered in PvP throughout the expansion and future expansions to come. The game would be completely different than what it is now, we wouldn't care about azerite or any of that stuff WQ are currently in place for other than gold or rep for a mount or something.

Really the only point of turning on Warmode then would be to do nothing but PvP, everything else would feel hollow and pointless. You would make a character, log in the game, have all your abilities, go where ever you want and PvP. Sounds like a MOBA but in MMORPG fashion, only without the RPG part.
08/26/2018 12:26 PMPosted by Xadie
I think the system you want would only work if gear and lvls no longer mattered in PvP throughout the expansion and future expansions to come. The game would be completely different than what it is now, we wouldn't care about azerite or any of that stuff WQ are currently in place for other than gold or rep for a mount or something.

Really the only point of turning on Warmode then would be to do nothing but PvP, everything else would feel hollow and pointless. You would make a character, log in the game, have all your abilities, go where ever you want and PvP. Sounds like a MOBA but in MMORPG fashion, only without the RPG part.


Your gear would matter in PvE lol. Nothing going to upset the need for gear by what happens when players engage others in a fight, the conditions wouldn't change just running around with War Mode on attacking NPCs and questing. Just what happens when you attack or are attacked by another player is when scaling should even be a factor. And that's only like I said to a extent even I'm not comfortable watching someone mythic+ geared getting destroyed by a 110 with 30k hp. Just can't throw everyone inside War Mode questing with nothing but capped players from other faction and not give them the ability to somewhat defend themselves. Otherwise might as well bring back the old system where you get nothing for killing lowbies or being in their areas.
How about you just implement a classic point system that works instead of a scaling one that requires additional work to sort of work.
08/26/2018 05:06 AMPosted by Xadie
08/26/2018 04:50 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
Sadly they made lowbies to weak currently. Try 1v1 against say your same class a 112 rogues against a 310 ilvl heroic geared rogue you will feel the difference drastically now. They need to go in again and find that good median. Can't have 120s stomping lowbies, period if they going to be in same areas as them. Because all lowbies see is level 120s, so pretty dumb to have War Mode where you can't fight back against them.

Or you could level up like the rest of us and gear, your exploited system got fixed. Deal with it.

And you're there complaining in another thread about lack of organic small scale PVP. Here's your culprit: a nerf to scaling that caused almost everyone to turn off warmode for leveling.
Nope, I made a post about Venruki. A multi R1 player

<-- Arena forums are that way.

while trolls came in and called Venruki bad.

Which Blizzard basically confirmed in a blue post.

08/26/2018 08:55 AMPosted by Mcfaceroller
And you vs "top" players remark was hilarious considering no Glad achievement or even 2700. Hate to break it to you, you arent playing top players. 2k was just me messing around with friends on few different toons no biggie.

<-- Again, arena forums are that way. Even the top ranked arena players can be incompetent at world PVP.
Woo. Did I have a ton to read over. Have been busy so I didn't have time to read these forums. Let's get straight to replying though.

08/25/2018 08:29 PMPosted by Sparkshot

This is the main reason, I believe, that scaling was implemented. It's plainly obvious that blizzard wanted low levels and high levels to be able to compete against eachother rather than it be a death sentence - for either of them.
Naturally, nothing is ever perfect. Low levels were over tuned in scaling. Blizzard hotfixed it so now they are significantly weaker.

Here's the thing. You're right about the scaling in PvE. No one's arguing over that. I know why Blizzard implemented scaling, and that's because they allowed low levels and high levels to level in the same area. I already said this, you're repeating what I said:
The soul reason they decided to add scaling this expansion is because of their plans in PvE. They wanted to give everyone the choice of going to whichever area they wanted go quest and level up at.

I realize they had this in Legion, but Blizzard didn't pay any attention to WPvP. This whole time, Blizzard has focused all of their balance into BGs/Arena. Blizzard believed that if the game was balanced around this and only this, WPvP would be fine.

They didn't pay any attention to WPvP at all. They only started to pay attention when things were obviously broken, such as legendaries in Legion, (like rogues one shotting entire raid groups). This is when they started to show a semblance of balance for WPvP, and since their next expansion, BfA, had the theme of a faction war, they decided to balance WPvP more.

I have no problem with scaling, not anymore at least with the hotfix. Low levels, by no standards, should be stronger than a level 120, which was the case until the hotfix, which I'm glad they fixed.

08/25/2018 08:29 PMPosted by Sparkshot

We aren't going back to the way things used to be, scaling is here to stay unless Blizzard decides they were on the completely wrong track.
And that's perfectly fine. I don't mind scaling either, especially when they expect a lower level and higher level to be in a zone together. My only problem is how much of an even playing field they're on. I DO NOT expect them to be on an even playing field against a heroic/mythic geared level 120. There's no reason, PvE or PvP, progression shouldn't matter.

08/25/2018 08:29 PMPosted by Sparkshot

I don't know about you, but I don't have a need to feel superior over other players in PVP just because my gear happened to be better than them - no matter how great yours is, there will always be a bigger fish - and they will serve you humble pie. I'm perfectly satisfied with my progression in PVE affecting my ability to do PVE, and PVP being a separate thing that anyone can jump into and enjoy. It won't satisfy everyone, but PVP being more accessible to everyone can only be a good thing. Who are you going to kill if there's no one PVPing?

Of course you don't feel the need. You're not even level 120, you're someone who probably doesn't put in alot of time into gearing their character, (or even leveling for that matter, since you're not level 120 yet.)

There are people who've played this game since vanilla because this was a game advertised around player progression. A game that required you to put in effort to become stronger.

The core concept of, "you level, you gear up, you become stronger." This game has been built around player progression, players like me enjoy the sense of growing our character through levels and gear and using that against our opponents, whether it be in PvE or PvP.

08/25/2018 08:55 PMPosted by Sparkshot

It used to be totally reasonable, back when it was possible to get the best possible gear for PVP by doing PVP.

That's not the case any more. The only 'progression' in the game that will make you better than other players is if you are highly successful at PVE.

As much as I agree with you here, I don't think everything should be scaled because of this. You're right, it really does suck that PvE is the only viable option of gearing. Its sad that PvP Vendors aren't a thing anymore.

It sucks, but do I think we should give in to scaling because of it? No. We voice our opinion that, hey, we like character progression too. Why lock our gear behind PvE? Why not just give us a PvP vendor already?

I shouldn't be forced to accept scaling or doing PvE just to feel a sense of progression that I've loved since TBC. To reiterate, I have no problem with level scaling, as long as it's reasonable. Gear should definitely play a factor in things, ever amongst different levels.

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