PVP scaling catastrophically broken

War Mode and World PvP
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08/22/2018 06:58 PMPosted by Phalanx
Quick update --

We're preparing a hotfix to go live soon which will widen the power gap a bit between players between 110 to 120. This means that, for example, a 120 will be stronger against a 115 after the hotfix than they are on live today.

Regarding lower level players being stronger at a lower level than they would be at max level, we haven't found that to be the case. (Though to be fair, that was regretfully the case in some situations in beta and on live because of bugs.)

In the case of Venruki, we loaded both characters internally and tested the scenario (exact spell sequences, etc.) with his Druid opponent at max level with gear the same iLevel as his Mage. Venruki would still of lost in that scenario if the Druid was at the same level and iLevel as him, so it is not a scaling issue between players of different levels but perhaps something else (1v1 class balance, item choices, etc.).

that is such an elaborated roast

omg, please give us more of those
horde wanted quests STILL not giving reputation (just did one more to test)
lets fix forum QQs first
08/22/2018 06:58 PMPosted by Phalanx
so it is not a scaling issue between players of different levels but perhaps something else (1v1 class balance, item choices, etc.).


Yeah it's called trying to fight a Druid as a Mage. This wasn't something new to BfA.
Venruki would still of lost

"would of"
oof
08/22/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
Actually, the PvP scaling changes are now live. We'll continue to monitor things and make changes where necessary. Thanks everyone.
just got killed by two level 110s cuz they had legendaries and I didnt. Can blizzard get a clue and just get someone who actually understands pvp to make changes
In the case of Venruki, we loaded both characters internally and tested the scenario (exact spell sequences, etc.) with his Druid opponent at max level with gear the same iLevel as his Mage. Venruki would still of lost in that scenario if the Druid was at the same level and iLevel as him, so it is not a scaling issue between players of different levels but perhaps something else (1v1 class balance, item choices, etc.).


I don't think you get it though, they aren't the same ilvl. I really don't know how this testing justifies a 116 beating a 120. It's about effort put in and skill, not just skill alone. If you ignore effort why bother having progression at all in WoW?
08/22/2018 09:18 PMPosted by Nyterider
In the case of Venruki, we loaded both characters internally and tested the scenario (exact spell sequences, etc.) with his Druid opponent at max level with gear the same iLevel as his Mage. Venruki would still of lost in that scenario if the Druid was at the same level and iLevel as him, so it is not a scaling issue between players of different levels but perhaps something else (1v1 class balance, item choices, etc.).


I don't think you get it though, they aren't the same ilvl. I really don't know how this testing justifies a 116 beating a 120. It's about effort put in and skill, not just skill alone. If you ignore effort why bother having progression at all in WoW?

it hasnt been about skill since blizzard started messing with pvp for pve things. an example would be seasons during legion for pvp where 99% of the teams you faced in rbgs had 4 boomkins and my 0.001% group who ran with me as a brewmaster. Skill vs FOTM and boomkins got the nerf at the end of the season so they "wouldnt feel punished for playing a strong class" while I got nerfed as brewmaster during the season because I beat some high rank 1 teams. Blizzard has been so far from in touch with what is happening in pvp it either has to be totally gamebreaking to be fixed or enough people have to moan about it being OP while everyone else just deals with it till the end of the season or even farther until a patch goes out for some raid or pve thing
08/22/2018 06:58 PMPosted by Phalanx
Regarding lower level players being stronger at a lower level than they would be at max level, we haven't found that to be the case.


Have you played this game at all in the past two weeks? I can tell you first hand, this is most definitely the case. Not because of gear or anything, but simply because the stats are really whacked at lower levels. Once I hit 111, my crit and haste went through the roof for some reason. I went from having like maybe 10% crit and 6% haste to having upwards of 50% crit at 115. I was easily killing level 120s at or around 115. Now at 120, I can barely touch similar geared 120s because my stats tanked hard once I hit 120. The stat scaling is really wonky right now.
08/22/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
Actually, the PvP scaling changes are now live. We'll continue to monitor things and make changes where necessary. Thanks everyone.


So you're saying this kind of massive stat won't give an insane advantage to a person because legendaries still work?
https://imgur.com/Kn6HyaJ

Not too sure any kind of mythic geared person would be able to survive this at equal skill level. Not only this, but even if the PvP scaling changes were nearly perfect, unless they specifically scale every item down to what their equivalent would be at 120 and what the new stat weights are at 120, the lower level will still hold the advantage.

If it's not fixed, I vow to run around on one of my alts camping 120s for the next weekend until it's fixed. I'll even give up doing mythics, just to murder and make enough people rage on the forums that it'll spur the right fix. (Which is, removing Scaling altogether. This is an MMORPG. Not Overwatch. MMO. RPG. If GEAR is a thing, make it worth getting. Otherwise, just strip us naked and make us a new version of Overwatch. While at it, you should remove all spells and talents from the game, makes for an even playing field if everyone just bashes each other with wet pool noodles.)
08/22/2018 09:11 PMPosted by Worldpvp
just got killed by two level 110s cuz they had legendaries and I didnt. Can blizzard get a clue and just get someone who actually understands pvp to make changes


So. you got an answer, a fix incoming, and evidence from the game devs themselves to the contrary of what your limited scope of biased opinions and small pool of experiences told you, and you brushed all of what they said off as wrong because you lost a 2v1.

Do you know why no one takes the forums seriously?
08/22/2018 09:56 PMPosted by Seachrome
08/22/2018 09:11 PMPosted by Worldpvp
just got killed by two level 110s cuz they had legendaries and I didnt. Can blizzard get a clue and just get someone who actually understands pvp to make changes


So. you got an answer, a fix incoming, and evidence from the game devs themselves to the contrary of what your limited scope of biased opinions and small pool of experiences told you, and you brushed all of what they said off as wrong because you lost a 2v1.

Do you know why no one takes the forums seriously?

two 110s should never be able to kill someone in full mythic gear when its healer healer vs tank
08/22/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
Actually, the PvP scaling changes are now live. We'll continue to monitor things and make changes where necessary. Thanks everyone.


Why is ILVL scaling existing between 120s in PVP?

Tested a bit ago(last hour, post-hotfix), I was seeing 1150 DMG on my end, friend was taking 850. He was seeing 2150 to me, I was taking 2950. Seems legit! 295 ilvl vs my 342 ilvl. I believe this means I'm doing 26% less dmg to him and he's doing 37% more dmg to me. Why the hell is gear being completely negated in a RPG? The gap in our HP was about 35% advantage in my favor, but the scaling is negating that and more. I'm sure my stat % and procs are better and I'm at a slight edge with optimized gear and more azerite traits but this is so stupid.

https://www.geteasysolution.com/300...percent-of-1150
https://www.geteasysolution.com/800...percent-of-2150

I lose 300 dmg for myself, he gains 800. This is just based on testing one ability each.

Because of EHP values, we run into this hilariously stupid issue:

106/1.37 = 77.37
He has 37% increased damage so I die as fast as if I only had 77k hp

76/.74 = 102.7
I do 26% reduced damage so I only do 74% damage, so he lives as long as if he had 102.7k

So Blizzard is assuming that my secondary stat %s and procs are making up for that significant of a gap in EHP with scaling, meaning I'm actually at a disadvantage if not well optimized and using OP procs.
Still doubling down on scaling in pvp smh. It should never be the case where the game tells YOU, you hit them for 10k when in reality they are getting hit for 3k or less, etc.

There has been absolutely no wpvp fixes as far as classes go, level/ilvl scaling, and legendary problems. None of the problems we have are yet to be fixed, and this is what BFA is supposed to be 'all about'. Really makes you look good on week two of an expansion where your flagship new system is failing. It gets harder and harder every day to even find people to do stuff in warmode.

The fact that, a Rank 1 player loses to some random nobody that's 4 levels under him.. the boomkin was 116. That means no leggos, just bad scaling and bad class design. This is exactly the problem, and has been the problem for expansions and WHY BFA will continue to fail on the pvp front.
08/22/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
Actually, the PvP scaling changes are now live. We'll continue to monitor things and make changes where necessary. Thanks everyone.


This is good, hopefully the power gap is no something like me being able to survive a 1v2 as a tank.

I was being ganked and griefed by a pair of druids who were 112 and 113 earlier today, and when I tried to defend myself, I was getting getting trucked by them. The combo of scaling them up too much, with the addition of them having their legendary equipment and tier sets active caused the power gap to be in their favor.

You guys on the dev side might not agree, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me for two people who are missing 8 levels to be able to floor me when I'm playing blood against them. I'm not super high in the Ilvl department, but a 329 blood dk should have a fighting chance against two people who just started leveling.

I'm not asking to have the scaling removed here but the scenario I ran into earlier is just silly, and it somewhat devalued leveling for me. The fact that the world mobs still hit way harder than they should against me as a tank already was enough of a buzzkill. I don't need to be apprehensive of a fresh 110 too.
08/22/2018 11:59 PMPosted by Ss
08/22/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
Actually, the PvP scaling changes are now live. We'll continue to monitor things and make changes where necessary. Thanks everyone.


This is good, hopefully the power gap is no something like me being able to survive a 1v2 as a tank.

I was being ganked and griefed by a pair of druids who were 112 and 113 earlier today, and when I tried to defend myself, I was getting getting trucked by them. The combo of scaling them up too much, with the addition of them having their legendary equipment and tier sets active caused the power gap to be in their favor.

You guys on the dev side might not agree, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me for two people who are missing 8 levels to be able to floor me when I'm playing blood against them. I'm not super high in the Ilvl department, but a 329 blood dk should have a fighting chance against two people who just started leveling.

I'm not asking to have the scaling removed here but the scenario I ran into earlier is just silly, and it somewhat devalued leveling for me. The fact that the world mobs still hit way harder than they should against me as a tank already was enough of a buzzkill. I don't need to be apprehensive of a fresh 110 too.


you can currently troll people as 110 and are unstoppable from being killed. It seems the only way to get blizzard to fix this is to constantly gank higher levels hopping they hop on the forums to complain and i hope blizzard understands this is the environment they are creating to play and get a change to actually happen
08/23/2018 12:21 AMPosted by Worldpvp


you can currently troll people as 110 and are unstoppable from being killed. It seems the only way to get blizzard to fix this is to constantly gank higher levels hopping they hop on the forums to complain and i hope blizzard understands this is the environment they are creating to play and get a change to actually happen


Agreed. I think the only way to make Blizzard listen is if we log on our lowbies and gank 120's hardcore and send them packing to the forums. Call it a protest if you will.

Sorry Blizz, trying to stop you from ruining your own game...
08/23/2018 12:28 AMPosted by Nyterider
08/23/2018 12:21 AMPosted by Worldpvp


you can currently troll people as 110 and are unstoppable from being killed. It seems the only way to get blizzard to fix this is to constantly gank higher levels hopping they hop on the forums to complain and i hope blizzard understands this is the environment they are creating to play and get a change to actually happen


Agreed. I think the only way to make Blizzard listen is if we log on our lowbies and gank 120's hardcore and send them packing to the forums. Call it a protest if you will.

Sorry Blizz, trying to stop you from ruining your own game...


Yeah I've got 12 alts to level all with great leggos, I guess I'll do it too on my way up.
Yall heard it here! Gank as many people as you can while leveling or blizzard wont change anything!
Quick update --

In the case of Venruki, we loaded both characters internally and tested the scenario (exact spell sequences, etc.) with his Druid opponent at max level with gear the same iLevel as his Mage. Venruki would still of lost in that scenario if the Druid was at the same level and iLevel as him, so it is not a scaling issue between players of different levels but perhaps something else (1v1 class balance, item choices, etc.).


Could it be the case that high level azerite traits where being put into the lower level gears? I felt like I did more dps with certain traits that proc way to much for it's level... I also notice a drop of dps when I "upgraded" for better stats instead of better talents. I'm not to sure how RNG it is when picking traits if any.
08/23/2018 12:57 AMPosted by Nekosnipa
Quick update --

In the case of Venruki, we loaded both characters internally and tested the scenario (exact spell sequences, etc.) with his Druid opponent at max level with gear the same iLevel as his Mage. Venruki would still of lost in that scenario if the Druid was at the same level and iLevel as him, so it is not a scaling issue between players of different levels but perhaps something else (1v1 class balance, item choices, etc.).


Could it be the case that high level azerite traits where being put into the lower level gears? I felt like I did more dps with certain traitors that proc way to much for it's level... I also notice a drop of dps when I "upgraded" for better stats instead of better talents. I'm not to sure how RNG it is when picking traits if any.

I think it scales with your overall stats which is why the 110 gear full mythic antorus people are running around with like 70% crit and destroying people max level

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