Selling Runs is ruining this game

General Discussion
Gold runs are players crowdsourcing a service.

Choose not to purchase the product if you don't need it. What's the issue exactly?

If you see someone advertising runs for real life money, report them.
08/24/2018 07:16 AMPosted by Searik
Who the hell pays for a base mythic dungeon?
That's what I was thinking. If you're desperate enough to pay, might as well just form your own group first. And still, paying for an M0? Hahahaha.
What kind of pathetic cuck pays for mythic 0 runs lmao
08/21/2018 12:51 AMPosted by Torloki
Well we sell runs to pay for expensive mats / boes that you guys farm. If this system didnt exist auction house for the common player would plummit cause no one would buy your goods at mass.

Again, BS. The auction house/game economy was just fine without people selling runs. What happened to people using their professions to finance raiding? I seem to recall raiding guilds always having the most $$$ because the most lucrative recipes, BoE, and mats dropped from raids. Raiding in and of itself is profitable.
I go through the group finder and report all the "Selling runs" groups sometimes for fun.
08/24/2018 07:26 AMPosted by Searik
08/24/2018 07:23 AMPosted by Mercucio

People that have gold or IRL $$$ to buy wow tokens, but not 2+ hours to spend trying to even get into a mythic group that might fail. Two weeks in and I just got my 3rd mythic completed on my rogue. Being in a guild does not help when you're on a group of dead servers where guilds just collect people to collect them.

2 hours doesn't sound right, try getting your ilvl up in heroics. Especially as a rogue when Tol Dagor is a thing.

Whether it sounds right to you or not, it is what's happening. And my rug is 325 ilvel TYVM.
08/21/2018 02:37 PMPosted by Guttacat
Being able to buy high end gear diminishes the value of high end gear.

The value of high end gear is the stats on the gear -- it helps you kill stuff faster, or kill stuff you couldn't have killed with weaker gear. The days of people armorying you and being amazed that you have some super-rare piece are long gone. Basically everyone raiding mythic or running M+ at a high level has the same great gear.

If you think having a certain ilvl means you "win" the game, great, but most people don't care. That's why most people who actually raid or run high-level M+ aren't up in arms about sales runs, whether they sell carries themselves or not.
Pretty sure there is a very small minority of people who pay for these things.
08/24/2018 07:30 AMPosted by Mercucio
08/24/2018 07:26 AMPosted by Searik

2 hours doesn't sound right, try getting your ilvl up in heroics. Especially as a rogue when Tol Dagor is a thing.

Whether it sounds right to you or not, it is what's happening. And my rug is 325 ilvel TYVM.

Thats a well geared rug.

But either way not sure how it takes 2 hours. It could be just not applying to enough, or not willing to just start one... as im sure there would be plenty of other 325s in your position if thats true. It'll be harder sure, but we all gotta start somewhere.
Who cares? Mind your own business. How does this effect you in any way? Does this stop you from gearing, leveling, or running them yourself? No? Move along, nothing to see here.
I have paid for one run in my long years of playing - for the violet spellwing mount. It was a mount I really wanted but for various reasons it was easier to purchase a run for 200k than try to pug it. It has zero impact on the game over all. The raiders get to pay for their gear or game time. It's win win.

People have been paying for run since I've been max level - I remember a group selling runs to the Sunwell back in the day.

(puts out a little tray of cookies for all to enjoy)
Since I never buy or sell runs, the only time it effects me directly is when players spam chat.

Indirectly? An argument could be made that it effects the overall willingness to join communities.
Being the devils advocate for a moment. I don’t see the problem with some people paying others to carry them through dungeons. In the real world do you do everything yourself? What if some people are just really good at making gold? That is part of the game, and as such they are not doing anything wrong when they choose to spend it that way.
I’m just surprised people would put that much time for 150k, split between a few people.

Learn the AH and with far less effort and time you can make money easily.
The token has made gold extremely valuable for dedicated players.

And being able to buy gold has given other players a short cut to obtaining certain things. For something like heirlooms on a new account, I would say that this is clearly a positive.

For something like paid runs? I wouldn't cite it as a positive, but I can't really say that it's impacted my experience in a negative way either.

Not sure how many players are participating, in terms of numbers, but it would surprise me if it were a high percentage. Running people through content is something that takes time.

So does farming gold. Yeah, you can buy the token for gold, but how many are going to spend lots of money on that?

Discouraging too much paid gear funneling could be one motivation for the removal of master loot, though, among other things.
08/21/2018 12:46 AMPosted by Guttacat
BFA hasn't even been out a week, and people are already selling Mythic dungeon runs for 150k...
How are people supposed to develop a community when this pay to win system is in place?
Trust me I get it Blizzard wants that $$, and people will buy tokens to sell for runs to get gear that doesn't match their skill.
I'm just trying to wrap my head around when this started, and how it got so bad.
It wasn't always like this.

I honestly think if Blizz made this type of thing against ToS, We would have a lot more involved community. I'm lucky enough to have a good group that I can progress with, but for new, or returning players it must be discouraging.

Trade chat has gone from gold farmers spamming their websites to guilds spamming their get rich quick ads.

I'm sure a lot of you make a fortune off this, and don't have to pay your subscription because of it, but I also know there's people that feel the same.

How does it ruin the game? still need to beat RNG boss
Paying for runs with wow token money is pretty sad actually.

It's throwing money at an addiction that plays on people's ocd need to min max despite there being no real gain
08/21/2018 12:46 AMPosted by Guttacat
I'm sure a lot of you make a fortune off this, and don't have to pay your subscription because of it, but I also know there's people that feel the same.

It Doesn't.

Players really just need to play the game and stop worrying about what everyone does with their gold or how they acquire their gear. It's a video game, not some sort of great feat of reality to suddenly have boss gear and own everything.
08/21/2018 12:52 AMPosted by Vaenaru
While I do agree with you and would love for paid carries to be outright against the ToS instead of simply being "unsupported transactions" -- it sets a dangerous precedent.

What's wrong with players selling their own services for a coin in general terms? If the buyer is willing to risk that purchase knowing a GM won't intervene if it goes south, why should it be against the rules?

Or to get closer to this particular topic -- Why is a group bringing in their guildie who came back halfway through the expansion for a free carry somehow legitimate and acceptable but someone without the connections to make that happen for themselves paying someone to bring them so much worse?

There's no good way to make that rule without going against the spirit of players making their own choices.

Also, if you then take the whole "services is a no no" approach, what about enchanters who enchant BOP items? Or a rogue that opens lock boxes? They are performing a service and getting paid for it. I know that isn't what you were suggesting, but the only way to enforce this would be to monitor tender going to a person with no item being receieved. Those two services, which everyone would say is legimate, would then be subject to the same sanctions by any type of monitoring.
I just understand how anyone would pay 150k for a mythic dungeon run. That costs more than 1 token.

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