TOK Is Wacked

Monk
Dear tank,” ill be taunting the boss throughout the fight. Sorry, its my best dps ability. Just remember to taunt back.

Tank “uhhh, okay i guess.”

This is where we stand...
08/25/2018 08:44 AMPosted by Sashaahh
Dear tank,” ill be taunting the boss throughout the fight. Sorry, its my best dps ability. Just remember to taunt back.

Tank “uhhh, okay i guess.”

This is where we stand...


No it's not.

If you're taunting off the tank for extra DPS, you deserve to be kicked, plain and simple. We are not so dependent on ToK that you need to pull the boss off the tank. In no situation is it even remotely necessary.

I don't swear by Simcraft, but some quick results:

Without using ToK at all, with the SimC WW T22 profile, we pull around 15.5k DPS.
If you use ToK once every 4 minutes, we're at 16.6k. Every 3 minutes, 16.7k. And every 2 minutes, 17.3k.

Basically what I'm trying to show is that you DO NOT have to be using ToK on cooldown. If you use it defensively, when big damage goes out, you will pull competitive numbers. You do not have to go hunt damage to be competitive. On shorter fights you're only using Karma once or less anyway. Not using it at all is not so crippling that you need to pull things from the tank to be competitive. I use ToK primarily as a defensive, and I've never felt crippled. I normally wind up top or near the top of the meters consistently. There's only 3 bosses that come to mind where I intentionally use ToK as an offensive.

Do I think there's too much damage in ToK/ToD? Possibly yes. I wouldn't mind seeing it spread out a bit more. But saying our other abilities are useless is a vast overstatement. Use ToK once or twice casually in a fight and you're still middle of the pack which is the place to be. Top gets nerfed, bottom gets buffed (then nerfed again).
You have to look for damage to get the most out of tok. Like it or not. Whether thats standing in !@#$, getting in front of a cleave or taunting. Also if you want to line up tok/tod together. You just cant wait for some raid damage to go out... It will definitely get fixed. Its completely broken. I think the talent will get fixed auctually. I agree, our our abilities still put out decent damage but not even close to tod/tok....
08/25/2018 09:35 AMPosted by Sashaahh
You have to look for damage to get the most out of tok. Like it or not. Whether thats standing in !@#$, getting in front of a cleave or taunting. Also if you want to line up tok/tod together. You just cant wait for some raid damage to go out... It will definitely get fixed. Its completely broken. I think the talent will get fixed auctually. I agree, our our abilities still put out decent damage but not even close to tod/tok....


Except as a whole you'd likely notice more of a increase from ToD than ToK due to the easier and shorter amount of time you would have to wait for that burst damage from it.

Even if you don't train yourself to eat damage with ToK you aren't really going to tank your dps. Do I notice my dps increase some when use ToK defensively when heavy damage is going out at times? Yes, but even then I don't see a big enough difference where I need to taunt off the boss or stand in the fire.
Yeah I hate the way it works. It's like a reward for bad players that stand in stuff.
@Talfen A 2k dps difference from using ToK on cooldown is pretty friggin significant. How can you say it's not important to WW with a straight face while you go on to prove otherwise in your own post? Are you some sort of imbicil?
it's actually not i was in a mythic with a ww same ilvl as me they never used tok once. i used it every chance i could get to test how good it. made sure to use it ever time i was taking high dmg.

our dps was basically identical on every fight with them never using it.
08/25/2018 11:28 AMPosted by Xianmisuto
it's actually not i was in a mythic with a ww same ilvl as me they never used tok once. i used it every chance i could get to test how good it. made sure to use it ever time i was taking high dmg.

our dps was basically identical on every fight with them never using it.

Then your not using it right....
08/25/2018 09:17 AMPosted by Talfen
Without using ToK at all, with the SimC WW T22 profile, we pull around 15.5k DPS.
If you use ToK once every 4 minutes, we're at 16.6k. Every 3 minutes, 16.7k. And every 2 minutes, 17.3k.


That's a DPS increase of more than 10%

And you're saying that's nothing? LOL

Dude, you literally have no clue what you're talking about. At all.

Please stop posting about ToK not being busted / not being a requirement. You don't know what you're saying.
This is what happens when you launch 3 months before the game is ready.
08/25/2018 11:28 AMPosted by Xianmisuto
it's actually not i was in a mythic with a ww same ilvl as me they never used tok once. i used it every chance i could get to test how good it. made sure to use it ever time i was taking high dmg.

our dps was basically identical on every fight with them never using it.


when tok is allowed to be used to its full effect dependent on the encounter it is your #1 damage ability according to recount, its 200k + nature damage

without tok WW sims on the bottom

this is asinine, i only post here in hopes blizzard reads this, not to discuss with the monk "community" because of posts like these
08/25/2018 11:28 AMPosted by Xianmisuto
it's actually not i was in a mythic with a ww same ilvl as me they never used tok once. i used it every chance i could get to test how good it. made sure to use it ever time i was taking high dmg.

our dps was basically identical on every fight with them never using it.


The both of you are doing it wrong clearly. Karma is pretty much always my number 2 ability after Touch of Death on boss fights.

08/25/2018 09:17 AMPosted by Talfen
Without using ToK at all, with the SimC WW T22 profile, we pull around 15.5k DPS.
If you use ToK once every 4 minutes, we're at 16.6k. Every 3 minutes, 16.7k. And every 2 minutes, 17.3k.


1.8K DPS is pretty significant.
\
No it's not.

If you're taunting off the tank for extra DPS, you deserve to be kicked, plain and simple. We are not so dependent on ToK that you need to pull the boss off the tank. In no situation is it even remotely necessary.


You haven't even cleared the Mythic dungeon set, what do you know? Offensive ToK use is going to separate mediocre monks from good ones- without changing the ability fundamentally (so that there is no damage reflect component) there is no denying it.

If I were a tank on discord with a WW Monk, I would 100% expect them to be calling out taunts. Not every fight has heavy damage phases where you can make full use of ToK, and that's actually just DPS that you're letting float away into thin air by neglecting to use it offensively. I would also never kick someone for trying to hold themselves to a higher standard. That's as asinine as "you pull it, you tank it" bull!@#$.

As a WW Monk, that damage absolutely is necessary to justify your place in a group over a Rogue which is also bringing great DPS, but also has more utility via shroud, faster interrupts, better AOE etc. Thusfar through BfA Mythics, beating a rogue on a boss fight has almost always come down to effective use of ToK.
Use it as a defensive CD and you'll still output solid damage. I don't honestly feel like WW is in that much of a different place than we were during Legion. We have great sustained AoE DPS, great burst ST DPS, and middling sustained ST DPS - with some tricks here and there to make it above average.

We're still great picks to bring along for Mythics because we have amazing utility, and are solid Raid choices because of our new passive.

The class is in a fine spot, although I agree ToK could maybe use a little tweaking, but I don't feel we have much to complain about at the moment.
08/26/2018 12:40 AMPosted by Rustle
You haven't even cleared the Mythic dungeon set, what do you know? Offensive ToK use is going to separate mediocre monks from good ones- without changing the ability fundamentally (so that there is no damage reflect component) there is no denying it.


He's a troll and a bad one at that
On Mythic in a high DPS group TOC is the highest damage skill nearly every fight.
08/25/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Sashaahh
08/25/2018 11:28 AMPosted by Xianmisuto
it's actually not i was in a mythic with a ww same ilvl as me they never used tok once. i used it every chance i could get to test how good it. made sure to use it ever time i was taking high dmg.

our dps was basically identical on every fight with them never using it.

Then your not using it right....


It was my top dmg and i ended the fight at 17k dps.
The both of you are doing it wrong clearly. Karma is pretty much always my number 2 ability after Touch of Death on boss fights.


It was my number 1 or 2 on every fight. I ended pretty much every fight at 17-20k dps. the difference in dps wasn't that high between us. maybe 1k on every fight.
08/26/2018 12:05 PMPosted by Xianmisuto
It was my number 1 or 2 on every fight. I ended pretty much every fight at 17-20k dps. the difference in dps wasn't that high between us. maybe 1k on every fight.


your DPS isn't gonna be 20k on a fight that lasts longer than 15 seconds. And mythic bosses don't die in 15 seconds, at least not yet.

why blatantly lie & brag about your damage here?
08/26/2018 12:05 PMPosted by Xianmisuto
The both of you are doing it wrong clearly. Karma is pretty much always my number 2 ability after Touch of Death on boss fights.


It was my number 1 or 2 on every fight. I ended pretty much every fight at 17-20k dps. the difference in dps wasn't that high between us. maybe 1k on every fight.


So what point are you trying to prove here? Your dps was identical without him using ToK, which means if he used it he would be way ahead of you. If you don't want to admit that then the argument comes down to you playing SO horribly that he didn't need ToK to compete with you. So which is it? Because if its one of your top dps abilities than that means it DID MATTER....Do you understand how terribly you argued your point?

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