Oops, did we make it pay to win???

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08/26/2018 10:50 PMPosted by Maes
What are you on about? Mythic drops are BOP unless it's with a group member who was present for the drop. I'm pretty sure the best tradeable gear is ilvl 300 crafted gear, and that crap is crap.

He's talking about world drop BoE epics available on the AH.
None of that gear is even best in slot.
A 345 ilvl with full BiS gear could demolish a 355 ilvl player with BoE Epics off the AH on the damage meter.
08/26/2018 10:52 PMPosted by Purplelime
I thought we entered P2W territory when they started selling max level characters, everyone else seemed to disagree with me with the "what are you winning" rhetoric so I guess they don't really agree.


How though. What are you winning?

Just explain that to me.
OP...

lots of people are getting "the good gear" out of their ears. to the point they are scrapping it. enters the most basic question a game player asks...

how can I make money from this?

See that's how this this works. Vendor pricing sucks, check. Scrapping gives mats but not a lot, check. man it be nice to sell this gear off...A thought they'd have.

So now the gear farmers are happy.

Its not P2W. Gear will come to make this current 315+ stuff crap for the competitive pve types .

People like me. We won't win, we won't even be in your mythic plus runs of doom. We just want to not break out in sweats of fear and dread over the fight we are about to get from one of the most fearsome enemies that exist in BFA.

Deer.

For the right price to avoid mythic grinds (some don't actually like this stuff)...we will pay just to break the ilevel barrier. So that deer are no longer feared opponents.

The uber ilevel for your mythic gear to come that is all yours, enjoy.
youre right, for the low cost of 3-4 wow tokens you can buy one piece of 350, maybe 355 gear. thats ONLY $60-80 per slot. cant believe every billionaire out there isnt 350 equipped already !
People who make these kinds of threads never explain what they considering "winning" in a MMO would be. Having gear is not really a win state as you need gear to achieve a win state. Even then, gear can only carry you so far before skill becomes apparent.
08/26/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Intoker
08/26/2018 10:52 PMPosted by Purplelime
I thought we entered P2W territory when they started selling max level characters, everyone else seemed to disagree with me with the "what are you winning" rhetoric so I guess they don't really agree.


How though. What are you winning?

Just explain that to me.


I honestly don't get the argument, you can't "win" an MMO, P2W doesn't literally mean "win", it's synonymous with gaining an advantage over other players with real money, so in this sense it's skipping the entire levelling process other players have to spend 80+ hours to do.

You could make the same argument for buying mythic gear with real money, "well you haven't won anything, it doesn't affect anyone else" or "you can earn it in game so it's fine" but we all know it's dodgy.

Unfortunately people are already conditioned to bad business practices and it's the norm for them.

Imagine back in 2008 if someone suggested buying max level characters, actually scrap that, I do remember, and everything called them an entitled idiot.

Crazy how so much has changed.
08/26/2018 10:36 PMPosted by Farora
WoW isn't really a "pay to win" game since everyone has a different idea of what "winning" is.

If you can buy the best gear in game with gold... it's p2w.

Doesn't matter if you want to admit that or not... it doesn't matter if the buyer sucks and doesn't do DPS...

If he can get the BEST gear in game with gold from top guilds or sellers... It's p2w.

People just don't want to admit that...
No, because you have to buy it from a player.

Pay to win is if you can buy it directly from the Blizzard store itself. But if another player didn't make or farm that gear, you cannot buy it.
AH !@#$, OP'S RIGHT GUYS

NORMAL RAIDS AND MYTHIC 0'S WILL BE DONE IN NO TIME

%^-*

Ah well, WoW's dead, time to go play Minesweeper.
08/26/2018 10:53 PMPosted by Camshow
None of that gear is even best in slot.
A 345 ilvl with full BiS gear could demolish a 355 ilvl player with BoE Epics off the AH on the damage meter.


Trinket is BiS for a lot of classes/specs actually, sort of annoying but I have resisted purchasing it for the the 100-200~ extra dps.
08/26/2018 10:35 PMPosted by MorepoD3F904
You can buy the best gear in the game with gold currently, you can also buy gold with real money. It doesn’t get any more cut and dry folks, they know exactly what they’re doing. The revenue they are bringing in from people buying gear with real money to get raid ready must be staggering. Funny how this crept up on us, almost didn’t even notice it...


I said it in another thread. Just because it's not in a loot box, doesn't mean it isn't a loot box. They totally bent the player base over and went P2P.

"I really don't see how anyone can not see this for what it is on Blizzard's part. Money money money. People balked at loot boxes because that was too obvious, but the way I see it is, not everything has to come in a box to fool you as to what it is."
08/26/2018 11:33 PMPosted by Goldbrand
No, because you have to buy it from a player.

Pay to win is if you can buy it directly from the Blizzard store itself. But if another player didn't make or farm that gear, you cannot buy it.


You buy the token from blizzard. Blizzard says thanks for your 20$ (5$ over max sub fee btw)

Sell token for around 100k gold atm. Realize you don't have enough gold yet, since player wants 500k for this amazing item.

Buy 4 more tokens. Blizzard says thanks for your 80$, (20$ over sub fee).

Sell token for hopefully ... still around 100k gold a piece. They are dropping fast after all.

Buy item from player.

Who made out here? Blizzard just made 100$ off of someone desperate for a trinket though. That's not much different than buying 10 loot boxes for 100$ in another game I know of to hopefully loot a Nightmare mount.
08/26/2018 10:36 PMPosted by Farora
WoW isn't really a "pay to win" game since everyone has a different idea of what "winning" is.


Could you progress faster in game with $ or just by playing the game :)

Hypothetically

What does buying an unobtainable bis weapon from the store do?? Makes you progress faster, more like instantly
what does buying an exp pot from the store do?? Pretty much the same makes you progress faster but not instantly

According to some one of them is not pay to win, or what i call an acceptable pay to win bwahahahah
08/26/2018 11:33 PMPosted by Goldbrand
Pay to win is if you can buy it directly from the Blizzard store itself

What a joke.

Player or blizzard it's the same thing, it's P2W.

Deny it all you want, but yes.. this game does has p2w features.
08/26/2018 11:30 PMPosted by Purplelime
08/26/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Intoker
...

How though. What are you winning?

Just explain that to me.


I honestly don't get the argument, you can't "win" an MMO, P2W doesn't literally mean "win", it's synonymous with gaining an advantage over other players with real money, so in this sense it's skipping the entire levelling process other players have to spend 80+ hours to do.

You could make the same argument for buying mythic gear with real money, "well you haven't won anything, it doesn't affect anyone else" or "you can earn it in game so it's fine" but we all know it's dodgy.

Unfortunately people are already conditioned to bad business practices and it's the norm for them.

Imagine back in 2008 if someone suggested buying max level characters, actually scrap that, I do remember, and everything called them an entitled idiot.

Crazy how so much has changed.


But that it's not pay to win, it's pay to rush. Even with your new max level character you can lose DGs, battlegrouds and a lot of things.

Please, to all complaining, learn what it's really pay to win. Pay to win it's when you can only became very powerful at game if you spend real money, or when you can have acess to exclusive content that gives you unfair advantage compared to the people that play free.

Nowadays, we have few pay to win games (and the marjority of them are in mobiles). It's more common things like Pay to Rush (for example, buying loot boxes that contain things inside that are not cosmestics, or Hearthstone with their card packs), that doesn't block content from the free players; and Pay to Play (games that have times and with currency that you need to spend real money to jump from these). I made these 2 category, but i hope it's clear what about i am saying.
08/26/2018 11:59 PMPosted by Sabrila
Please, to all complaining, learn what it's really pay to win. Pay to win it's when you can only became very powerful at game if you spend real money,

So spending gold in game to buy Mythic raid gear isn't p2w?

How is that any difference please explain?

Gold or money.. it's the same purpose.. you are getting stronger... doesn't matter how are you paying or getting it.

I know i know... the casual response "But it's paying with gold an in game currency, not money.. so it's not p2w dude... relax"
08/26/2018 11:49 PMPosted by Edisbelee
08/26/2018 11:33 PMPosted by Goldbrand
Pay to win is if you can buy it directly from the Blizzard store itself

What a joke.

Player or blizzard it's the same thing, it's P2W.

Deny it all you want, but yes.. this game does has p2w features.


No it's not, pay to win is if you can buy competitive edge.

If those players had never farmed that gear, that gear wouldn't exist, and all your money in the world wouldn't be able to get it.

Also, you can't even craft the best gear. Maybe slightly above average, but all the best loot are BoP and in raids.
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What a joke.

Player or blizzard it's the same thing, it's P2W.

Deny it all you want, but yes.. this game does has p2w features.


No it's not, pay to win is if you can buy competitive edge.

If those players had never farmed that gear, that gear wouldn't exist, and all your money in the world wouldn't be able to get it.

Also, you can't even craft the best gear. Maybe slightly above average, but all the best loot are BoP and in raids.

Listen

If a freshly guy went with a 20man mythic raiding guild as a carry.. and they handed him all the loot that droped from there... because he is paying millions of gold..

That is a P2W.. did you get it?

Wanna keep denying it?

If you can the latlest "tittle,mythic xmog" Highest ilvl possible with "GOLD" THAT IS P2W
08/27/2018 12:06 AMPosted by Edisbelee
So spending gold in game to buy Mythic raid gear isn't p2w?
Nope. Because mythic raid gear isn't available for sale. It's not available in any form since mythic raids have not opened up yet.
08/27/2018 12:06 AMPosted by Edisbelee
How is that any difference please explain?
If you're talking about currently available BoEs, the difference is they suck, they are very rare, they are very expensive, and they do not provide a full set since azurite gear is not BoE. You also cannot buy your way to a higher ranked Heart of Azeroth which is needed to unlock the traits on higher level azurite gear.
08/27/2018 12:06 AMPosted by Edisbelee
Gold or money.. it's the same purpose.. you are getting stronger... doesn't matter how are you paying or getting it.
You're only getting stronger in your own mind. It's like paying $500 for a fedora because you think it makes you look cool.
08/27/2018 12:06 AMPosted by Edisbelee
I know i know... the casual response "But it's paying with gold an in game currency, not money.. so it's not p2w dude... relax"
Or...as demonstrated in this thread, the casual response is "You can waste your money/gold on crap AH gear if you want. You'll still suck."

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