A Handbook on High Elf Argumentation

General Discussion
Prev 1 13 14 15 26 Next
Just merge points 4 and 5. Point 5 about "different tattoos" makes more sense with Night Elf and Nightborne. The reason why people point out that difference between Draenei and Lightforged is exactly because they're on the same faction. Which is the same as the Tauren and Highmountain. Slight difference. And just like Belves and Velves, there's only a small difference between Nightborne and Night Elf. Also, your use of the word 'skeleton' is weird. I've never heard anyone complain about the 'skeleton', but moreso the model. And while Zandalari do indeed use the same "skeleton" it's not the 'same model' ie as it would be between Helf and Belf, since it would be literally just an eye-colour change. Appearance wise, that's the complaint about Helf and Belf. That it's exactly the same, except eye-colour. At least Draenei/LF, Nelf/Nightborne have the tattoos and skin tones.
08/31/2018 01:37 PMPosted by Spoon
Just merge points 4 and 5. Point 5 about "different tattoos" makes more sense with Night Elf and Nightborne. The reason why people point out that difference between Draenei and Lightforged is exactly because they're on the same faction. Which is the same as the Tauren and Highmountain. Slight difference. And just like Belves and Velves, there's only a small difference between Nightborne and Night Elf. Also, your use of the word 'skeleton' is weird. I've never heard anyone complain about the 'skeleton', but moreso the model. And while Zandalari do indeed use the same "skeleton" it's not the 'same model' ie as it would be between Helf and Belf, since it would be literally just an eye-colour change. Appearance wise, that's the complaint about Helf and Belf. That it's exactly the same, except eye-colour. At least Draenei/LF, Nelf/Nightborne have the tattoos and skin tones.


and we have proposed countless canonical ways to change it. The issue arises when some anti high elf folk come in and say "nope you can't change it they HAVE to look the same as blood elves except with blue eyes and you can't have them because they are just blood elves with blue eyes"
@Rosaire

I would counter with this, the official history of High Elves from Blizzard.

In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense. High elves do not gather in any significant numbers, nor do they act as a coordinated whole. They are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture--only a past filled with glory and regret.
08/31/2018 02:48 PMPosted by Azire
@Rosaire

I would counter with this, the official history of High Elves from Blizzard.

[quote]In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense. High elves do not gather in any significant numbers, nor do they act as a coordinated whole. They are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture--only a past filled with glory and regret.


And now there are less Void Elves then High Elves, less Player Pandaren then High Elves, less Mag'har then High Elves, and less Lightforged then High Elves.

Population is no longer an issue.

The unification factor is a solid point but you could literally make the requtment questline about doing that.
It amazes me how much energy people put in demanding a slight reskin of the blood elf race.
08/31/2018 10:40 AMPosted by Pointyends
08/31/2018 10:07 AMPosted by Dalesong
He makes a valid point.


No. Ion said no, if you want HE's the Horde is waiting for you.

Everything else is smoke filled coffee house crap. A few people who are obsessed about blue eyes and pointy ears then twist word and logic pretzels to "justify" wanting Blizz to spend time and resources for an entire new race.

All the OP is posting at this point is Troll Bait.


You are the troll popping into a thread to post the most tired meme on this forum. "Horde is waiting for you lulz" ...wow...funny. OP made extremely valid arguments without bashing or flaming anyone. People are trying to discuss an idea which they are clearly passionate about on both sides. So either post an actual argument or don't open the thread if it bothers you that much.

High elves make sense from a lore standpoint and plenty of suggestions have been offered up to make High elves visually distinct from Blood elves without changing their genetic makeup. New idle stances and animations, That's truly all that's required from a game play perspective. Tattoos and hairstyles only add to the differentiation.
08/31/2018 11:58 AMPosted by Tàrgon
08/30/2018 09:25 PMPosted by Rouin
Pro high-elf players repeatedly offer suggestions to alter the stances, animations, and voice acting to make the race appear different enough from blood elves but each and every time anti high-elf fans ignore the suggestion. Then they turn right around and use the same exact argument to prove how nightborne are different from night elves.

I literally can’t believe how many times I’ve seen this happen. Different idle stances and animations alone would adequately differentiate the two races from each other from a gameplay perspective let alone the myriad of other suggested changes such as hair styles and tattoos.

I really don’t get it. What you play doesn’t affect me in the slightest so why do you care so much if I would be happy playing a high elf as long as I’m willing to make some alterations just like the pro high-elf community has offered up time after time. It literally doesn’t have an effect on your gameplay in the slightest.

I’ve been pro high-elf since the beginning and always will be.


Because there's no reason for them having a different appearance when they are the exact same race. The difference is political and nothing else. Night Elves changed into Nightborne due to 10 000 years of isolation + their reliance on Arcwine. There was no such divide between High and Blood Elves.

There's no amount of tatoos or different idle animations (seriously now?) that won't just make them Blood Elves taped on the Alliance, which Blizzard doesn't want. I wasn't even down for Nightborne on the Horde myself, but two wrongs don't make a right.


I said they don't need to be different genetically so trying to twist my words and use that as a counter-argument is ridiculous. From a lore standpoint they ONLY need to be different politically. They only need to be visually distinct for gameplay so, as condescending as you tried to be, yes I'm absolutely serious. Idle stances play a huge part in telling two similar races apart (see Nightborne / Night elves). No one cares if you personally don't like Nightborne, they exist just like Void elves. You regurgitated someone else's argument and said "two wrongs don't make a right". What wrongs? In who's opinion? I doubt blizzard sees Nightborne as a mistake, nor would I imagine most of the players. Using any race other than Blood elves as a counter point to High elves holds zero water. If anything bringing up Nightborne strengthens the pro high elf argument.
08/30/2018 04:55 PMPosted by Moonfalls
Here is what it boils down to. High Elves have been the most requested new Alliance race since vanilla WoW. Blizz and Ion hate the Alliance and its players. They aren't going to give us something we actually want.

This seems to be it.

Blizzard is supposedly under financial pressure now, though, so there's still hope. Sure, half the existing blood elves are people who actually wanted to play Alliance high elves - the half that would reroll to Alliance if high elves were permitted. But there's probably an equal number of people who eventually gave up on the game because they knew that blood elves were basically a cheap excuse for high elves. Those people would come back to the game if high elves were introduced.

That would probably give the game a 15% subscription boost. How long can Blizzard keep turning that down to preserve their prejudices in favor of the Horde?

Now introducing high elves would no doubt change overall faction imbalance toward the Alliance, possibly as badly as the 60/40 we saw in Vanilla. But you know what? It doesn't matter. Faction balance only ever mattered on PVP servers, and there aren't any PVP servers any more. The only place faction balance actually matters - casual battleground queues - would be much improved by more Alliance players.
Why is a post on High Elf argumentation needed when it was already said that they will not be in the game?
08/31/2018 03:34 PMPosted by Kenkou
Why is a post on High Elf argumentation needed when it was already said that they will not be in the game?


Because they can't let it go. High elves are not going to the Alliance. The Alliance rejected them and they became blood elves. But they choose to ignore the story.

Sorry guys, the Tolkien elves are ours!!
08/31/2018 03:34 PMPosted by Kenkou
Why is a post on High Elf argumentation needed when it was already said that they will not be in the game?


If you would have actually read the thread you felt the need to troll post on then you'd know that was never said by anyone...including Ion.
Helves Fan base :
You became the enemy of the Elves. And this war you will never win. You can kill this request, but you never kill hope.

Hazzikostas : Cant i? Burn it! Burn it!!!!
08/31/2018 03:37 PMPosted by Hewer
08/31/2018 03:34 PMPosted by Kenkou
Why is a post on High Elf argumentation needed when it was already said that they will not be in the game?


Because they can't let it go. High elves are not going to the Alliance. The Alliance rejected them and they became blood elves. But they choose to ignore the story.

Sorry guys, the Tolkien elves are ours!!


Gameplay trumps story. Blizzard gave blood elves to the Horde because they needed to fix faction imbalance. That's it.
08/31/2018 03:10 PMPosted by Rouin
You are the troll popping into a thread to post the most tired meme on this forum. "Horde is waiting for you lulz"


It's not a "meme" is what Ion said. That you don't like it doesnt make it any less true. And as for the "lore". It's a joke so many ret-con's revamps and re-writes that it is utterly meaningless to use it to demand that Blizz waste time crafting a new race for a handful of fanatics who want to RP a bunch of sad elves.

Ion said no.
I would also like to point out Void Elves were in no way a compromise as they missed the obvious compromise they even eluded to in Suramar, Half Elves. Elisande chides all the High Elves there by noting they have diluted their bloodline from their former regal bearing by mixing it with humans. Half Elves would have been a far better compromise and yet were overlooked.

I personally still think Half Elves would be the way to give the Alliance a Thalassian style elf and remove the argument of Blood Elves feeling upset their model was reused or them not looking unique enough as obviously you can use the human model for them as some fans have already modeled already as examples.

I think Void elves were a set up for something bigger much later instead of a race just added to give the alliance an elven model but I do think their intention for them should have been made more clear.
I don't doubt that there are very good reasons that high elves could be a playable race. It would barely take any effort lore-wise; Vereesa and the Silver Covenant alone could account for most of the faction.

But I don't understand why, at this juncture, we should add high elves as a playable race. Void elves may have been a mistake, but this is where we are. Maybe a better retelling would have been for Alleria and Vereesa to join forces and unite their followers under one Windrunner banner, and call themselves the true high elves. However, we have void elves. They are essentially Blizzard's answer.

What do we as players gain from adding high elves as well as void elves? How do high elves fit into the current faction and expansion narrative? What would you add to the Horde as an allied race that would be equal in measure, both in terms of faction relations and in terms of skeleton/model? (I realize that Blizzard has basically said they would consider adding races to one or the other faction at different times to best fit, but realistically I think they would always add 1:1 or a neutral race.)

I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. Yes high elves could be a playable race, but why should they?
08/31/2018 03:55 PMPosted by Pointyends
08/31/2018 03:10 PMPosted by Rouin
You are the troll popping into a thread to post the most tired meme on this forum. "Horde is waiting for you lulz"


It's not a "meme" is what Ion said. That you don't like it doesnt make it any less true. And as for the "lore". It's a joke so many ret-con's revamps and re-writes that it is utterly meaningless to use it to demand that Blizz waste time crafting a new race for a handful of fanatics who want to RP a bunch of sad elves.

Ion said no.


It's absolutely garbage pile meme status now and you used it as such. If you aren't concerned with lore then why have an issue with High elves looking genetically different? Oh..no you don't want that? Okay lets keep them genetically the same and change game play things such as animations. You're still not happy you say? Oh, I get it, it boils down to "this is mine and you can't have anything like it because, reasons". How does it negatively affect you personally? Plain and simple, it doesn't. Last point, Ion never said no as much as you might wish he did. He said not right now, so right now is inherently the best time to discuss what we want to see in the future.
08/31/2018 02:53 PMPosted by Drede
Population is no longer an issue.


And the funny thing is, if population were an issue, Blizzard has now established that we can just open up a timeway to an alternate dimension and grab all the High Elves we may need.

Open up to the correct timeway and we could even get uncorrupted Kael'thas as racial leader to boot.
Okay say you do get High Elves?....How are you gonna make then aesthetically different from blood elves? Blue eyes... and?.....????
08/31/2018 04:30 PMPosted by Synah
Okay say you do get High Elves?....How are you gonna make then aesthetically different from blood elves? Blue eyes... and?.....????

Different color eyes (Blue is common, but there is a High Elf face in-game with purple-y eyes, and I think it's lovely), and tattoos -- right there, we've already hit what all the other allied races have, but High Elves are often shown with different hair than Blood Elves both in terms of style and in terms of color as well which is a nice bonus.
Standing and idle poses with different voice acting would also already make them more different than Void Elves are to Blood Elves.
On top of all the implied stuff like racials and heritage sets.
This was covered in the OP but it's a little lengthy so it's alright if you missed it and this is the first time you've been in a High Elf discussion thread. There are some seriously creative folks out there doing amazing art for High Elves. I linked ercarp on the front page, actually, and he's probably my favorite.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum