Ret Pally rotation gap possible solution

Paladin
As I have been playing the Ret pally for the past 4 months, I have noticed the outrage on the forums from Ret pallies frustrated that they are experiencing 3-4 second lulls in their rotations with nothing to do but curse the WoW dev team.

Slightly by accident, I think I have found a workable solution to the gaps in the rotation that can actually make them feel much more rewarding to players who are attentive of their global cooldown and Righteous Verdict talent buff.

I was looking for good weakauras to clean up my UI and, by chance, ran into a good one by Luxthos on wago.io. It tracked all the normal rotational aspects of the class, but most interestingly to me, it also tracked the 6 second uptime of the Righteous Verdict buff!

While testing out the weakaura on some training dummies, I slowly began focusing on keeping the up the uptime on Righteous Verdict, which would in turn increase the damage of all of my Templar's Verdict casts. In the end, I found that: when all my builders were spent, and when I had enough Holy Power for a Templar's Verdict, AND when I had 3-6 seconds remaining on my Righteous Verdict buff, it actually INCREASED DPS to HOLD OFF on casting Templar's Verdict UNTIL the Righteous Verdict buff was down to 1 second remaining. The couple seconds you hold your Templar's Verdict ALSO gives your builders a couple seconds to come off CD, meaning that you won't have any gaps in your rotation where you aren't doing anything.

Basically, by taking the gap you NORMALLY experience just after using a Templar's Verdict and putting it BEFORE you cast the Templar's Verdict in order to chain the Righteous Verdict buff and give your builders more time to finish their cooldowns, you can increase your dps.

While this sounds confusing, what it really means is that, through Righteous Verdict, the Ret pally evolves from just a "whack-a-mole" priority based spec into one that also rewards buff maintenance and the gaps in your rotation can be timed perfectly in order to increase your Righteous Verdict uptime. This makes the gaps feel like they are important because you have to concentrate on making sure you reapply Righteous Verdict right before it hits 0 seconds.

TLDR: Instead of spending the gaps in your rotations doing nothing, how about spending that gap stalling your Templar's Verdict until you need to refresh Righteous Verdict, thus giving your builders more time to come off cooldown and increasing the damage of your next Templar's Verdict.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that in these couple seconds you are waiting to spend your Templar's Verdict, you also have time to think about using a global cooldown on a Flash of Light, Arcane Torrent, Shield of Vengeance, any of our other utility spells, or just to move around some green puddles. ALSO, what's causing the gaps in our rotation in the first place was probably the Crusader Strike cooldown nerf which has been mentioned in a forum post to be having a bigger impact than expected... Hopefully in the next couple months Blizzard will have gearing solutions or revert the Crusader Strike change.

EDIT2: Also, the new 45 second cooldown on Wake of Ashes lines up really awkwardly with Avenging Wrath's cooldown, meaning that, if you are not running Hammer of Wrath, there will be times where your Avenging Wrath does very little for your DPS because you can't build enough Holy Power to make it useful. Wake of Ashes actually lines up the best with the Inquisition talent now.
Yeah there's no way that's intentional by the dev team.
08/30/2018 01:20 AMPosted by Nuanced
TLDR: Instead of spending the gaps in your rotations doing nothing, how about spending that gap stalling your Templar's Verdict until you need to refresh Righteous Verdict, thus giving your builders more time to come off cooldown and increasing the damage of your next Templar's Verdict.

This is still effectively doing nothing for 2-3 seconds. People are annoyed because this gameplay is NOT FUN. They are not annoyed because dps is lacking (dps is fine).
08/30/2018 03:27 AMPosted by Sarakatawen
08/30/2018 01:20 AMPosted by Nuanced
TLDR: Instead of spending the gaps in your rotations doing nothing, how about spending that gap stalling your Templar's Verdict until you need to refresh Righteous Verdict, thus giving your builders more time to come off cooldown and increasing the damage of your next Templar's Verdict.

This is still effectively doing nothing for 2-3 seconds. People are annoyed because this gameplay is NOT FUN. They are not annoyed because dps is lacking (dps is fine).


True, there is still a gap in your rotation, but at least you can now have some PURPOSE behind that gap. Considering that Ret pally is low on the priority list at Blizzard for reworking in the near future (incoming Marksman, Feral, Shadow Priest changes) I think that it's better for us to try to make do with what is possible with the spec at the moment.
But I talent Zeal...
08/30/2018 01:27 AMPosted by Nephis
Yeah there's no way that's intentional by the dev team.


As I mentioned in my comment to Sarakatawen, Ret Pally is low on the priority list for rotational reworking. Until we get larger haste numbers further into the xpack, we are going to have to try and make do with what Blizzard has given us, and Righteous Verdict upkeep is one niche aspect of the class that can make the gameplay a bit more skillful and intriguing.
08/30/2018 04:02 AMPosted by Bastionn
But I talent Zeal...


In all AOE situations we should be talenting Zeal... Sadly, Zeal is just naturally much more of a passive talent than Righteous Verdict, making our already boring and lackluster AOE rotation all the more boring and lackluster.
That's how legion ret pally played if you used the cape and wanted to maximize dps, but legion ret still had significantly less gap in ability usage, and you generally only went without spending for a few secs to pool HP/refresh CD's on builders once you finally dropped the cape buff.
08/30/2018 04:29 AMPosted by Vaerume
That's how legion ret pally played if you used the cape and wanted to maximize dps, but legion ret still had significantly less gap in ability usage, and you generally only went without spending for a few secs to pool HP/refresh CD's on builders once you finally dropped the cape buff.


Yeah once I noticed this way of playing around the passive, it seemed intuitive that skilled Ret players had probably been doing this since Legion. I just figured I'd share my discovery for any Ret pallies still in the dark since I haven't seen anything about Righteous Verdict maintenance on the Ret pally Discord or Icy Veins.
08/30/2018 04:01 AMPosted by Nuanced
True, there is still a gap in your rotation, but at least you can now have some PURPOSE behind that gap.


That still doesn't magically make it fun.
Ok, so how long was the cooldown for judgement in legion? I know blade of justice was 10.5 and CS was 4.5. Fires of justice used to be a better talent. So far it's only an extra 1.5 seconds from CS and a .2 sec loss from the original fires of justice talent.

Is it really that large of a difference?
08/30/2018 11:52 AMPosted by Zeltheran
Ok, so how long was the cooldown for judgement in legion? I know blade of justice was 10.5 and CS was 4.5. Fires of justice used to be a better talent. So far it's only an extra 1.5 seconds from CS and a .2 sec loss from the original fires of justice talent.

Is it really that large of a difference?


Yes it's that large. The forum post said something to the effect that we are losing 12.5% of our spenders just due to the crusader strike nerf.
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08/30/2018 10:44 AMPosted by Divenity
08/30/2018 04:01 AMPosted by Nuanced
True, there is still a gap in your rotation, but at least you can now have some PURPOSE behind that gap.


That still doesn't magically make it fun.


Re roll nothing will make ret fun. It's a garbage spec. Boring AF
08/30/2018 01:57 PMPosted by Nuanced
08/30/2018 11:52 AMPosted by Zeltheran
Ok, so how long was the cooldown for judgement in legion? I know blade of justice was 10.5 and CS was 4.5. Fires of justice used to be a better talent. So far it's only an extra 1.5 seconds from CS and a .2 sec loss from the original fires of justice talent.

Is it really that large of a difference?


Yes it's that large. The forum post said something to the effect that we are losing 12.5% of our spenders just due to the crusader strike nerf.

that is the maximum though. If you don't use fires of justice and divine purpose it can go sub 10%. I just don't see the problem as I compare my memory with what is currently available. In fact I like the slightly slower pace especially for pvp as I don't have to give up my damage just to use my resource called mana.

IMHO the extra time between crusader strikes is minimal for the buff we recieved.

Would I like a buff to fires of justice so that it reduced the cooldown by 1.5 seconds? Yes. Honestly they should do that instead of having a really unreliable proc, it would pump out just about the same number of holy powers.
It feels bad. The fix is easy, no more charges on crusader strike. Until then this guy is going to just be a LFR hero because I can’t stand playing a class like this. Your rotation is time gated like everything else.
08/30/2018 09:17 PMPosted by Markeus
It feels bad. The fix is easy, no more charges on crusader strike. Until then this guy is going to just be a LFR hero because I can’t stand playing a class like this. Your rotation is time gated like everything else.


Yep, just make CS spammable - lower the damage if necessary. Spec still boring, but rotation problems would be somewhat solved.
Zeal is better
Are people saying the class isn't fun BECAUSE of the gap? (Gap seems basically non existent with blade of wrath and wake anyway) If we're tuned around having that gap we're more valuable to a group. That gap allows us to throw out a wog or whatever and maintain dps.

It feels worse not providing utility because we are neck and neck with someone on the meters and we don't want to lose.

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