No flying

General Discussion
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◾Flying effectively eliminates any sense of danger or consequence for losing in world PvP.

Then turn it off on PvP servers. I'm on a PvE server and have ZERO desire to participate.
◾It contributes to gold inflation and makes many crafting materials less impactful on the economy due to easy they become ton farm.

OR make a farming toon. I got NINE toons. Wanna guess what THREE of them are for?
◾The world feels smaller due to not being able to take advantage of things like forced perspective.
Your OPINION is not fact.
◾Much less organic player interaction overall.
Oh yeah mean like now when I've grouped with ZERO people for any questing outside of the ONE group quest I did but even then didn't even need to?
◾Quests are harder to design and are generally less threatening when they can just be flown to or around.

This is questing material. Not raids. Not even normal 5m dungeons. It's not the serious.
08/16/2018 07:50 AMPosted by Alphahelix
08/16/2018 07:38 AMPosted by Ohmygolygosh
...

Yes, when WPvP was active and alive. Now, people just use it to fly away because they'd rather do their objective than participate in actual PvP.


if people don't want to wpvp then why does it matter?


It also begs the question...what the #$%^ do these people think PvE servers are for???
08/16/2018 07:51 AMPosted by Hadafhang
◾Flying effectively eliminates any sense of danger or consequence for losing in world PvP.

Then turn it off on PvP servers. I'm on a PvE server and have ZERO desire to participate.
◾It contributes to gold inflation and makes many crafting materials less impactful on the economy due to easy they become ton farm.

OR make a farming toon. I got NINE toons. Wanna guess what THREE of them are for?
◾The world feels smaller due to not being able to take advantage of things like forced perspective.
Your OPINION is not fact.
◾Much less organic player interaction overall.
Oh yeah mean like now when I've grouped with ZERO people for any questing outside of the ONE group quest I did but even then didn't even need to?
◾Quests are harder to design and are generally less threatening when they can just be flown to or around.

This is questing material. Not raids. Not even normal 5m dungeons. It's not the serious.


I really like every point you make. Keep up the good work!
Lots of flight points and boats. I really am not missing flying. It was the same on Argus. I didn't miss flying a bit. It might be annoying when I start running ALTs through it.
08/16/2018 07:20 AMPosted by Dorondir
But to act as if the people who oppose flying can "just not fly" and that will fix the problems flying causes is ridiculous.
What problem doesn't it solve? You don't like flying, then don't use it. No one is forcing you to, and there is currently no content that requires flight to access.

08/16/2018 07:20 AMPosted by Dorondir
So many elements to MMO game design are made irrelevant by adding flying.
Levelling? Nope, no one can fly for that.
Quests? Nope, still gotta kill 10 of these and collect 15 of those.
Dungeons? Nope, can't mount there.
Raids? Nope, can't mount there.
Arena? Nope, can't mount there.
BGs? Nope, no flying there either.
Pet battles? Let me think... Nope.

Can someone please name me some legitimate content that is hindered, hampered or in any other way diminished due to flight being available a couple of months after launch?
08/16/2018 07:50 AMPosted by Alphahelix
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Yes, when WPvP was active and alive. Now, people just use it to fly away because they'd rather do their objective than participate in actual PvP.


if people don't want to wpvp then why does it matter?


Right. If you don't want to turn on Warmode, then don't. At least warmode should not have flying though.

08/16/2018 07:44 AMPosted by Hadafhang

You're basically closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and saying "I don't want to address any problems so I'm going to ignore them" lol

Your replies are comical at least


Oh the irony...

So far the two only "arguments" anti-flight has offered is

"Muh immersion" - forcing players to play how YOU think they should play the game. While ironically enough you get butthurt when flight is introduced. This argument is purile because you have ZERO qualms about forcing OTHERS to play how you think they should but will get salty when flight is in there and pro-flight's immersion is "forced on you.

"Muh wPvP" - has been pretty much dead since Vanilla. Didn't work out too well after that even when two entire ZONES in two CONSECUTIVE expansions were dedicated to wPvP where flight WAS disabled AND had rewards within them.

From the rip I have agreed with everything to do with Pathfinder, even the reps, except for the insane time gate. There is NO conceivable, logical answer why after the start of new expansion if I have gone through every zone, every quest and getting reps to revered on MULTIPLE factions on FOUR different classes that I can't have flight by the time I'm ready to level classes 5-9.

WHY???


lol

Why type that all out if you start it with basically insulting me "muh" etc. Starting off with that is just going to make your argument sound like it's coming from a 12 year old who doesn't have self control.

WPvP didn't die in vanilla, it was consistent throughout TBC + WotLK which you obviously didn't play ?

It doesn't matter now though. I have a net-o-matic so who cares
08/16/2018 07:44 AMPosted by Hadafhang

You're basically closing your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and saying "I don't want to address any problems so I'm going to ignore them" lol

Your replies are comical at least


Oh the irony...

So far the two only "arguments" anti-flight has offered is

"Muh immersion" - forcing players to play how YOU think they should play the game. While ironically enough you get butthurt when flight is introduced. This argument is purile because you have ZERO qualms about forcing OTHERS to play how you think they should but will get salty when flight is in there and pro-flight's immersion is "forced on you.

"Muh wPvP" - has been pretty much dead since Vanilla. Didn't work out too well after that even when two entire ZONES in two CONSECUTIVE expansions were dedicated to wPvP where flight WAS disabled AND had rewards within them.

From the rip I have agreed with everything to do with Pathfinder, even the reps, except for the insane time gate. There is NO conceivable, logical answer why after the start of new expansion if I have gone through every zone, every quest and getting reps to revered on MULTIPLE factions on FOUR different classes that I can't have flight by the time I'm ready to level classes 5-9.

WHY???


One, I actually like the Pathfinder compromise. It lets the game breathe without the weight of flying on its game systems wearing it down for the first few months. And I concede the convenience of flying is welcome when I'm getting tired of seeing the nitty gritty of every zone on my 7th character.

And two, world PvP is dead for two reasons: flying and there being no organic player interaction anymore. Ashran is a far cry from Vanilla Stranglethorn Vale. Players were naturally funneled into these areas back then, so fights broke out organically. Take this and they didn't have the safety of just flying away, so massive, prolonged brawls would break out. Things like Tol Barad and Ashran were dead from the start since that could hardly be called world PvP, could it? I'm pretty sure you're among the few who thinks that is the case. With things like world quests and War Mode incentives, I'm cautiously optimistic about the state of world PvP this expansion.

Then turn it off on PvP servers. I'm on a PvE server and have ZERO desire to participate.


So you don't care about PvPers and want to.. How did you put it? "Force" them into a gameplay scenario that's bad for them? You were singing a different tune not too long ago about apathetically forcing others into certain gameplay styles.

Your OPINION is not fact.


I hate to break it to you, but optical illusions are a matter of fact.

Oh yeah mean like now when I've grouped with ZERO people for any questing outside of the ONE group quest I did but even then didn't even need to?


Player interaction isn't limited to grouping for random quests, dude. Simply seeing others counts towards this. And I for one find WoW far too lonely these days. Call that "LE OPINION ECKS DEE" all you want, but I think I have a point.

This is questing material. Not raids. Not even normal 5m dungeons. It's not the serious.


Your OPINION is not fact.
And two, world PvP is dead for two reason: flying and there being no organic player interaction anymore. Ashran is a far cry from Vanilla Stranglethorn Vale. Players were naturally funneled into these areas back then, so fights broke out organically. Take this and they didn't have the safety of just flying away, so massive, prolonged brawls would break out. Things like Tol Barad and Ashran were dead from the start since that could hardly be called world PvP, could it? I'm pretty sure you're among the few who thinks that is the case. With things like world quests and War Mode incentives, I'm cautiously optimistic about the state of world PvP this expansion.


It's DEAD because there are no incentives other than griefing. The wPvP you seem so fond of happened for several reasons. Firstly, there were NO instanced BGs. How else are you going to PvP? Oh...right...go attack Horde/Alli territory and hope for a response. Then instanced BGs were introduced. So you either PvP'ed at the entrances or you did get together and raided Horde/Alli zones because you had decaying honor and could LOSE ranks. Once decaying honor was removed, wPvP was relegated to BG entrances at most. Then it became less and less frequent IN Vanilla WoW.

So you don't care about PvPers and want to.. How did you put it? "Force" them into a gameplay scenario that's bad for them? You were singing a different tune not too long ago about apathetically forcing others into certain gameplay styles.


I don't think you understand the concept of PvE and PvP servers. If wPvP is so important to you and the anti-fliers then you should ask Blizz to implement this on PvP servers. And if it's too costly, then free server transfers to PvP servers should be allowed like low pop transfers.

Player interaction isn't limited to grouping for random quests, dude. Simply seeing others counts towards this. And I for one find WoW far too lonely these days. Call that "LE OPINION ECKS DEE all you want, but I think I have a point.


So in other words, play how I think YOU should play. This is getting repetitious.

And as for my last point, let me know how much coverage there is for World 1st Pathfinder and World 1st Final Boss completion. I'm sure they're on equal footing.
08/16/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Dorondir
Flying effectively eliminates any sense of danger or consequence for losing in world PvP.


WPVP has been dead since Vanilla. No, not because of flight, but because there wasn't much incentive to do it.

08/16/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Dorondir
It contributes to gold inflation and makes many crafting materials less impactful on the economy due to easy they become ton farm.


Aside from consumables, crafting becomes largely irrelevant once raiding hits it's stride anyways.

08/16/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Dorondir
The world feels smaller due to not being able to take advantage of things like forced perspective.


The world doesn't feel big even with ground mounts, being forced to run the same trails over and over again doesn't somehow make the world feel bigger or more immersive.

08/16/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Dorondir
Much less organic player interaction overall.


Sharding has more to do with that than flying. I have no problems finding people to complete group quests.

08/16/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Dorondir
Quests are harder to design and are generally less threatening when they can just be flown to or around.


It isn't 'threatening' to slog your way through meaningless mobs to get to your objective. By your logic, stealth should be done away with too, since it can be used to bypass aspects of quests. 'Harder to design'? Sure, if by 'harder' you mean ' designers aren't able to slap a new coat of paint on the same fetch/kill quests we've done for 14 years'. There have been quests and whole zones designed with flying in mind.
08/15/2018 12:00 AMPosted by Tuhkoda
Anyone else enjoying the lack off lying? Personally I think it makes the game more fun to not have it.


I really like no flying at the start of an xpac, but later after I've already explored almost everything I enjoy flying over it.
Yeah its annoying getting around even in Boralus
No flying is always okay at the beginning of the expansion. It just sucks later after you've seen everything and been everywhere.
I enjoy the lack of flying right up until I start leveling up my first alt, then I miss it massively.

Blizzard needs to make areas in the game you can only get to by flying, make it exciting
08/16/2018 08:19 AMPosted by Hadafhang
It's DEAD because there are no incentives other than griefing. The wPvP you seem so fond of happened for several reasons. Firstly, there were NO instanced BGs. How else are you going to PvP? Oh...right...go attack Horde/Alli territory and hope for a response. Then instanced BGs were introduced. So you either PvP'ed at the entrances or you did get together and raided Horde/Alli zones because you had decaying honor and could LOSE ranks. Once decaying honor was removed, wPvP was relegated to BG entrances at most. Then it became less and less frequent IN Vanilla WoW.


It died for a number of reasons, flying being a not-insignificant contributor to its downfall. Moreover world PvP declined, certainly, after BGs and later Honor 2.0 were implemented. But it by no means died lol. I have no idea what you're smoking. The point is in 7.0 there was virtually no world PvP as opposed to Vanilla and in some respects BC and Wrath there was always at least a decent bit of it going on. Even in 1.12 players would regularly go out to pick fights for the hell of it. Sort of what you've been seeing in War Mode.

08/16/2018 08:19 AMPosted by Hadafhang
I don't think you understand the concept of PvE and PvP servers. If wPvP is so important to you and the anti-fliers then you should ask Blizz to implement this on PvP servers. And if it's too costly, then free server transfers to PvP servers should be allowed like low pop transfers.


I understand full well what they are. Which is why you can just leave War Mode off. But that is neither here nor there.

And for someone so quick to mock others' reasoning for disagreeing with you, your points really just boil down to, as you would put it: "But muh convenience."

If you want me to be entirely candid, I couldn't care less if you feel convenienced when you play WoW. I care whether or not the game is engaging, not convenient. And flying from point to point with a diminished sense of scale and next to no threat of unwanted combat either in the form of PvE or PvP isn't exactly engaging.
08/16/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Wariya
Yeah its annoying getting around even in Boralus


Oh no! I have to use boat and/or flight paths and walking to get somewhere!

My god people.

08/16/2018 08:34 AMPosted by Orig
08/16/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Dorondir
Flying effectively eliminates any sense of danger or consequence for losing in world PvP.


WPVP has been dead since Vanilla. No, not because of flight, but because there wasn't much incentive to do it.

08/16/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Dorondir
It contributes to gold inflation and makes many crafting materials less impactful on the economy due to easy they become ton farm.


Aside from consumables, crafting becomes largely irrelevant once raiding hits it's stride anyways.

08/16/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Dorondir
The world feels smaller due to not being able to take advantage of things like forced perspective.


The world doesn't feel big even with ground mounts, being forced to run the same trails over and over again doesn't somehow make the world feel bigger or more immersive.

08/16/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Dorondir
Much less organic player interaction overall.


Sharding has more to do with that than flying. I have no problems finding people to complete group quests.

08/16/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Dorondir
Quests are harder to design and are generally less threatening when they can just be flown to or around.


It isn't 'threatening' to slog your way through meaningless mobs to get to your objective. By your logic, stealth should be done away with too, since it can be used to bypass aspects of quests. 'Harder to design'? Sure, if by 'harder' you mean ' designers aren't able to slap a new coat of paint on the same fetch/kill quests we've done for 14 years'. There have been quests and whole zones designed with flying in mind.


Nope! WPvP is still pretty active. Had over 40 people at guru knocking on each other last week and still enjoying BfA's WPvP so I'm pretty sure you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about :D

It's also Blizzards fault for the reason that WPvP is "dead" as you say it is. PvP in general has god awful incentives, even with this new xpac.
Not a fan of "you need to get right there 20 yards away but sorry there's a 2 foot rock you cant jump, gotta go a mile around to get there."
I don't want flying in bfa zones, unlike legion where it felt taxing. I know it will be added eventually but it won't make me happy.
08/16/2018 08:40 AMPosted by Tadaima
I don't want flying in bfa zones, unlike legion where it felt taxing. I know it will be added eventually but it won't make me happy.


why would something you aren't forced to do bother you?
08/16/2018 08:39 AMPosted by Ohmygolygosh
Nope! WPvP is still pretty active. Had over 40 people at guru knocking on each other last week and still enjoying BfA's WPvP so I'm pretty sure you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about :D

It's also Blizzards fault for the reason that WPvP is "dead" as you say it is. PvP in general has god awful incentives, even with this new xpac.


Compared to what it used to be, it's dead, and has been for over a decade now. The odd skirmish here and there doesn't even compare.
08/16/2018 08:47 AMPosted by Orig
08/16/2018 08:39 AMPosted by Ohmygolygosh
Nope! WPvP is still pretty active. Had over 40 people at guru knocking on each other last week and still enjoying BfA's WPvP so I'm pretty sure you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about :D

It's also Blizzards fault for the reason that WPvP is "dead" as you say it is. PvP in general has god awful incentives, even with this new xpac.


Compared to what it used to be, it's dead, and has been for over a decade now. The odd skirmish here and there doesn't even compare.


Just because 1-2% of players do mythic raiding doesn't mean it's "dead"

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