Fire spec. Need hope!

Mage
Greetings all,
I am trying to like Frost, but it seems I can't play any spec other than Fire at the moment (Just reached lvl120). Is it really worthless spec at the moment for PVE purposes?
IcyVeins and Noxxic have way too different talent builds.
I feel ok handling numerous mobs together while soloquesting and feel OP(lol), but the damage meter in the instances is killing me. At the moment I have 3 gear pieces with non-spec related build as I am still trying to move to other spec and back. Frost is ok, but it feels boring compare to Fire. Arcane is not a choice unless you guys absolutely sure it's the way to go if I don't want to be kicked out of groups:) Practically, my Fire and Frost both suck in groups (lol) and it's confusing (DPS was 4-5 k on both spec at lvl118 and I was outdamaged by pretty much every other class/level - maybe I run with badass guys, cant tell now).
I do not have tons of time to farm for more than one spec at the moment. Please advise the way I need to go.
I am trying to main Fire spec, but ill be honest, Frost does way more dmg, with a simpler rotation and more utility to the group so yeah Fire is pretty much dead if you compare to frost mages.
I have been Fire since release day, even throwing off-spec frostbolts at ragnaros.

However, since the loss of Fel'melorn, and how fire feels/is performing I am running as arcane for the first time ever.

Once I am able to get my crit back up, I will give Fire a go again, but not yet. Tried a couple dungeons with it, and while not terrible, it was far less than I was putting out as frost or arcane, trash AND bosses.

I miss Fire, but had to adapt :(
Fire not being as strong as frost/arcane doesn't automatically make it trash, as the Ricky Bobbys of WoW would have you think. Imo, stay fire if you enjoy it--for now, at least. Numbers are going to be changing soon.
Been leveling as fire. It's a mixed bag. I have solo'd every elite quest and silver monster quest using Greater Pyroblast, which feels strong. On the other hand, I watched a demon hunter of the same level kill a mob the other day in about half the time it normally takes me, which made me sad.

The consensus seems to be that single target fire DPS is weak right now and leveling as fire is challenging because of crit scaling, making us susceptible to bad RNG even with the stacking 10% crit buff on fireball.
Oh yeah I forgot greater Pyroblast for elite quests.

So activate warmode and then just 4 casts of greater Pyroblast to kill any elite mob?

I spotted a level 122 elite in Drustvar last night with 1.2 mil health. I wonder if Greater Pyro would 4-shot it.
Fire is always the same. Sucks when you just hit max level and stats suck... then you get some gear and blizz nerfs the snot out of it because its finally decent on ST. Then it spends the rest of the expansion in the gutter with the 'ok ST / great cleave' pack.

I used to main my mage... but fire is the only spec I enjoy playing. just got sick of the nonsense.
08/17/2018 07:02 PMPosted by Duskraven
Fire is always the same. Sucks when you just hit max level and stats suck... then you get some gear and blizz nerfs the snot out of it because its finally decent on ST. Then it spends the rest of the expansion in the gutter with the 'ok ST / great cleave' pack.

I used to main my mage... but fire is the only spec I enjoy playing. just got sick of the nonsense.
An issue with Fire at the moment is that, due to tuning, even crit chains don't feel rewarding when you do get them. Pyro doesn't really hit that hard.
08/17/2018 02:57 PMPosted by Mistwynd
Oh yeah I forgot greater Pyroblast for elite quests.

So activate warmode and then just 4 casts of greater Pyroblast to kill any elite mob?

I spotted a level 122 elite in Drustvar last night with 1.2 mil health. I wonder if Greater Pyro would 4-shot it.


Greater Pyroblast's damage is capped at 35% of the caster's HP when it's used against a non-player target.
This is my main, and it feels awkward and underpowered at 120. You'll start keeping a weather eye on secondaries, and if you get a Crit piece you're going to be loathe to replace it with an "upgrade" stacked with Haste instead, no matter how much of an ilvl upgrade it is. And even then it still feels only marginally better when you're able to stack a little Crit.
I've got Mirror Image talented right now because Azerite traits that give you a 5k absorb shield and 7k of healing when you've got around 80k health is a joke, but that's not a Fire-specific issue. Even with Incanters Flow it feels bad. I'm going to try Rune when I'm finished leveling in my last zone, but I doubt it's going to make that much of a difference.
08/17/2018 10:53 PMPosted by Zeropointt
This is my main, and it feels awkward and underpowered at 120. You'll start keeping a weather eye on secondaries, and if you get a Crit piece you're going to be loathe to replace it with an "upgrade" stacked with Haste instead, no matter how much of an ilvl upgrade it is. And even then it still feels only marginally better when you're able to stack a little Crit.
I've got Mirror Image talented right now because Azerite traits that give you a 5k absorb shield and 7k of healing when you've got around 80k health is a joke, but that's not a Fire-specific issue. Even with Incanters Flow it feels bad. I'm going to try Rune when I'm finished leveling in my last zone, but I doubt it's going to make that much of a difference.
The worst part is crit pieces don't even seem to be simming the best. Sims may still be seeing work and subject to change, but at 310 then again at 330 (where I am now,) I still see Mastery and Vers as being my best two stats due to crit chains lacking any real power behind them, and it doesn't seem to matter if my gear is heavy on Critical Strike or heavy on Mastery.

People are focusing so much on the crit and not enough on the fact that Pyro doesn't exactly do a whole lot to even reward the crits beyond the double damage. I'm getting more out of increasing the raw steady effectiveness than I am boosting my Hot Streak rate, especially when boosting one comes at the expense of the other.

No Hot Streak = no fun and obviously less damage but at the same time, if t he damage we get out of a Hot Streak combo isn't anything noteworthy to begin with, we still have a big issue.
Yeah, Pyro has been nerfed bad too. It's gone from being our Nuke to basically just another filler, which means that as things stand, Fire's rotation is all fillers. You're just casting stuff with no buildup and no payoff.
Some general tips for fire in instances:

1. Fire blast up? Meteor Up? Pull is going to last more than 10 seconds? If all 3, pop combustion. Combustion should increase your dps substantially every time you use it if you time it with your fireblasts and meteor. Using it liberally will increase your performance over the course of the dungeon. It's much better than letting it sit unused.

2. Start fights with Meteor. Use it whenever you can if there are no targets below 30%.

3. If there are 3 or more mobs, Living Bomb should be your next priority. Reapply it if there are still 3 or more mobs!

4. Keep an eye out for mobs that dip below 30% and switch to use scorch for the guaranteed crits (you should be using the Searing Touch talent). As soon as any mob dips below 30% you effectively enter an execute phase where you should be getting instant pyroblasts constantly.

5. Fireball is your filler. When using fireball, spam the fireball button before the cast finishes to make up for client-server lag (you'll get faster casts this way). If you get a heating up proc, use a fireblast mid fireball cast and start spamming the pyroblast button before fireball finishes. If a fireball and fireblast hit at almost the same time, even if only 1 of them crits, you won't lose heating up. This effectively doubles your chance of getting a heating up proc during filler periods. Don't use Hot Streak when you aren't in combustion unless you cast a fireball first, for this reason.

6. Only use flamestrike if there are more than 5 targets, and never hard cast it.

7. There are a lot of mobs in instances that have extremely valuable buffs you can spellsteal, for example 40% haste or 90k damage shields. Keep an eye out and steal anything you can.
08/18/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Littlegreen
Some general tips for fire in instances:

1. Fire blast up? Meteor Up? Pull is going to last more than 10 seconds? If all 3, pop combustion. Combustion should increase your dps substantially every time you use it if you time it with your fireblasts and meteor. Using it liberally will increase your performance over the course of the dungeon. It's much better than letting it sit unused.

2. Start fights with Meteor. Use it whenever you can if there are no targets below 30%.

3. If there are 3 or more mobs, Living Bomb should be your next priority. Reapply it if there are still 3 or more mobs!

4. Keep an eye out for mobs that dip below 30% and switch to use scorch for the guaranteed crits (you should be using the Searing Touch talent). As soon as any mob dips below 30% you effectively enter an execute phase where you should be getting instant pyroblasts constantly.

5. Fireball is your filler. When using fireball, spam the fireball button before the cast finishes to make up for client-server lag (you'll get faster casts this way). If you get a heating up proc, use a fireblast mid fireball cast and start spamming the pyroblast button before fireball finishes. If a fireball and fireblast hit at almost the same time, even if only 1 of them crits, you won't lose heating up. This effectively doubles your chance of getting a heating up proc during filler periods. Don't use Hot Streak when you aren't in combustion unless you cast a fireball first, for this reason.

6. Only use flamestrike if there are more than 5 targets, and never hard cast it.

7. There are a lot of mobs in instances that have extremely valuable buffs you can spellsteal, for example 40% haste or 90k damage shields. Keep an eye out and steal anything you can.


I am doing everything that you listed, the disc priest on my party and the blood dk are still out dpsing me... Byyyee!
08/18/2018 04:23 PMPosted by Zeropointt
Yeah, Pyro has been nerfed bad too. It's gone from being our Nuke to basically just another filler, which means that as things stand, Fire's rotation is all fillers. You're just casting stuff with no buildup and no payoff.


*Cast Scorch 5 times to get 30% speed increase. Can and will be interupted thus intrupting your speed build thus dropping your speed by one or two levels. Just wonderful.

*Our only snare is a whopping 20%. That is so terrible that mounted foes cant be caught no more, i cant slow anyone down to catch or run from them. Thanks.

*Damage is absolutely terrible. I can AOE peeps and come close to leading BGs but ST is horrible outside if our gemicky Greater Pyro.

*Ignite counts for a lot of our damage but its death by a 1000 paper cuts. Ignite dots rarely do more then 120 damage. Ive not seen any over 200 in pvp setting. Thats all depending on if they arent dispelled. Thanks.

*No one is using Blastwave or Blazing Barrier. No one is using Alex Dragons Breath. For pvp, when looking at 100 tier, Meteor is our only choice. Kindling isnt noticable when chose. Pyroclasm is just not pratical in pvp. The short window that you have to use it compared to the long !@# cast time, forget it. Thanks for one choice pvpwise. Thanks.

*Survival. Our bubble, 5100 damage absorbed. At 110, it actually feels better then it did in Legion. It may even be the same , but it feels better. The problem with our bubble is the secondary trait. The shield hits its MELEE attacker for 168 damage per hit you take. That's extremely weak. Frost automatically slows its attacker. Arcane reduces magic damage taken by 20%. Ours only affects melee attacks and hits like a balled up bare fisted 5 year old. Thanks
08/18/2018 05:58 PMPosted by Icecreäm
I am doing everything that you listed, the disc priest on my party and the blood dk are still out dpsing me... Byyyee!


this pretty awesome cause i feel alot of people dont know that the scaling is goofy if there are lower levels in group on my 120 hunter and with my priest friend and he is level 112 and he did double my damage as holy

same when there is a low level tank

now if whole group is 120 and you getting out dpsd by healer then either they over geared or its a big l2p issue
08/18/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Defyem
08/18/2018 05:58 PMPosted by Icecreäm
I am doing everything that you listed, the disc priest on my party and the blood dk are still out dpsing me... Byyyee!


this pretty awesome cause i feel alot of people dont know that the scaling is goofy if there are lower levels in group on my 120 hunter and with my priest friend and he is level 112 and he did double my damage as holy

same when there is a low level tank

now if whole group is 120 and you getting out dpsd by healer then either they over geared or its a big l2p issue


I am talking about 330 mythic group buddy

Let me say this, as Arcane i out dps anyone... As frost almost anyone... As Fire i jsut said i am doing everything i am supposed to, how hard is to listen that the class is not performing well... Are you on the forums just to deny what other people have to say? LISTEN
08/18/2018 06:25 PMPosted by Icecreäm
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this pretty awesome cause i feel alot of people dont know that the scaling is goofy if there are lower levels in group on my 120 hunter and with my priest friend and he is level 112 and he did double my damage as holy

same when there is a low level tank

now if whole group is 120 and you getting out dpsd by healer then either they over geared or its a big l2p issue


I am talking about 330 mythic group buddy

Let me say this, as Arcane i out dps anyone... As frost almost anyone... As Fire i jsut said i am doing everything i am supposed to, how hard is to listen that the class is not performing well... Are you on the forums just to deny what other people have to say? LISTEN


08/16/2018 10:55 AMPosted by Kardani
(Just reached lvl120)


Hey there champ, he said he just reached level 120 so doubtful he went right into mythics and alot of people on other class forums were unaware of scaling issues in the normals when gearing up.

as far as you i get you frustrated cause you playing poorly and struggling if you mad go for a walk and cry out them tuff guy tears. I saw no where that said this was in a mythic...So if you want people to listen spout facts not nonsense
This is starting to sound like a venting / pity party thread. Not sure what kind of numbers you're pulling but you shouldn't be getting out dpsed by a healer ever. Fire seems inconsistent: some fights you'll have meteor and combustion ready, some your CDs will be down and you'll get bad luck on RNG, but at your low end you should still be above the tank and at your high end you should be beating most other dps.

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