Get rid of scaling

War Mode and World PvP
08/20/2018 12:03 PMPosted by Yarrow
08/20/2018 10:01 AMPosted by Erigzback
I demolished 120s as I leveled up my boomy. It was so much easier to kill them pre-120 it makes your character feel like crap once you hit max level.

You have an unactivated Azerite ability on your shoulders, an empty socket in your bracers, and no enchants. Fix those and your boomkin will become even more overpowered than before.

Honestly, is the Azerite system too complicated for people or something? If you're saving your Azerite, then don't complain when you underperform.


Apparently the Azerite system is too complicated for YOU to understand. Azerite power cannot be "saved" because it isn't something you spend. For whatever reason, some pieces of Azerite gear (independent of item level) have absurdly high AP level unlocks for 2nd and 3rd tier. I believe the 2nd tier of those shoulders unlocks at 17, but the level 1 trait is so good they are still the best option.

TL;DR - You're bad, he's not.
Yarrow, being the 113 twink you are, which I'm sure is super fun right now. I'm a bit jealous... but...

I can't activate that shoulder azerite ability because my neck is only lvl 15 at the moment, while that requires a lvl 17 neck. I know how the azerite system works, maybe you don't? In order to do higher tier dungeons you need an ilvl so you have to ignore certain stats just to get there. Kind of a stupid progression system as well but that's a different topic.

1 extra 40 haste gem isn't going to make me feel like a 110-115 boomy that had 30+% haste.

Also, enchant's won't make the difference of 20% haste either. And it won't increase your dmg to ungodly amounts. You feel stronger as a lower lvl character right now. Period. Took the time to log on my trash geared ele sham at 110 just to see how things are, I've killed 4 120's in the past hour who tried to gank me.
08/20/2018 12:43 PMPosted by Beebletoe

Apparently the Azerite system is too complicated for YOU to understand. Azerite power cannot be "saved" because it isn't something you spend. For whatever reason, some pieces of Azerite gear (independent of item level) have absurdly high AP level unlocks for 2nd and 3rd tier. I believe the 2nd tier of those shoulders unlocks at 17, but the level 1 trait is so good they are still the best option.

TL;DR - You're bad, he's not.

This. Said my thoughts exactly. Sometimes I don't even feel like replying to Yarrow because I feel like they're playing a totally different game than we are. They're either a troll or very ignorant.

First says they get hit for 50k-55k from a dagger throw and heroic leap, and then next say that people can save Azerite? What? As Beeble said, you can't save Azerite. In order to use the Azerite Traits on a piece of gear, your Heart of Azeroth necklace must be a certain level. The amount required depends on the ilvl, and not alot of people go out of their way while leveling to obtain Azerite Power.
08/20/2018 09:56 AMPosted by Obscene
08/20/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Xadie
You're delusional.

Great argument. Doesn't make Venruki play any better in that clip, it just makes you look like an idiot for posting it in multiple threads when he played so horribly and absolutely deserved to lose that fight. Go donate $20 to him so he'll feel better about it, he played that perfectly and only lost because of stupid Blizzturd interference!!!


I can't argue with stupid or someone just trolling, you look at that video and your response is that he's bad. The actual problem goes right over your head, discussing anything with you would be like talking to a rock, I rather not.

Blizzard has addressed that this is not intended and they are working on a fix. Can't argue that but keep trying.
08/20/2018 12:57 PMPosted by Xadie
I can't argue with stupid or someone just trolling, you look at that video and your response is that he's bad. The actual problem goes right over your head, discussing anything with you would be like talking to a rock, I rather not.

Blizzard has addressed that this is not intended and they are working on a fix. Can't argue that but keep trying.

Sorry that you can't see past your blind worship of ecelebs, maybe someday you'll grow up and realize that just because someone is on TV doesn't mean they're perfect and can't make mistakes or maybe you just don't realize how important cooldowns are, especially for mages.

Venruki starts the fight really well with Temporal Shield before his first cast, against Boomkins this is really important because you'll likely be sitting in that silence for a while and most people interrupt the first cast. The Boomkin realizes he interrupted during Temporal Shield and doesn't use any offensive cooldowns, instead opting to Mighty Bash to get Venruki's trinket. After Venruki trinkets, the Boomkin pops Incarnation, and Venruki doesn't immediately block which loses him this duel. In 1v1s as a mage, you have to be much more proactive, using Ice Block at low HP is basically worthless because no one's going to heal you up. If he used Ice Block right on that Incarnation while the Druid is at full HP instead of trying to get some damage out, he would have won because most of his cooldowns would have come back up during the Ice Block. He still wouldn't have Ray of Frost, which also would have won him the duel after the interrupt and bash were gone, but Orb + Comet Storm + Ice Nova would have been up and he would have been at full HP. Waiting until he's almost dead to Ice Block just gave the druid time to heal up, not to mention he cancelled the block early while the Boomkin still had incarnation up.

Another good thing to carry while playing a non-healing class like Mage is health potions, they heal for ~50% of your HP right now and can easily bring you back into the game even if you do block at low HP. They also cost basically nothing.

If he had cooldowns from the start and had played better, he could have easily won the fight. Just because he's 4 levels above the opponent shouldn't mean he instantly wins without a fight, and the thing they're "looking in to" is certain skills doing more than intended with the scaling, they're not going to remove scaling entirely just because people throw whine fits over not being able to 1 shot people a couple levels below them. The reason you're not trying to discuss anything is because there's nothing to discuss, you want lower levels to mean free kill no matter what and that's just sad and pathetic on your part. Maybe you should go back out to Hellfire Peninsula and camp those 58s some more.
08/20/2018 01:36 PMPosted by Obscene
08/20/2018 12:57 PMPosted by Xadie
I can't argue with stupid or someone just trolling, you look at that video and your response is that he's bad. The actual problem goes right over your head, discussing anything with you would be like talking to a rock, I rather not.

Blizzard has addressed that this is not intended and they are working on a fix. Can't argue that but keep trying.

Sorry that you can't see past your blind worship of ecelebs, maybe someday you'll grow up and realize that just because someone is on TV doesn't mean they're perfect and can't make mistakes or maybe you just don't realize how important cooldowns are, especially for mages.

Venruki starts the fight really well with Temporal Shield before his first cast, against Boomkins this is really important because you'll likely be sitting in that silence for a while and most people interrupt the first cast. The Boomkin realizes he interrupted during Temporal Shield and doesn't use any offensive cooldowns, instead opting to Mighty Bash to get Venruki's trinket. After Venruki trinkets, the Boomkin pops Incarnation, and Venruki doesn't immediately block which loses him this duel. In 1v1s as a mage, you have to be much more proactive, using Ice Block at low HP is basically worthless because no one's going to heal you up. If he used Ice Block right on that Incarnation while the Druid is at full HP instead of trying to get some damage out, he would have won because most of his cooldowns would have come back up during the Ice Block. He still wouldn't have Ray of Frost, which also would have won him the duel after the interrupt and bash were gone, but Orb + Comet Storm + Ice Nova would have been up and he would have been at full HP. Waiting until he's almost dead to Ice Block just gave the druid time to heal up, not to mention he cancelled the block early while the Boomkin still had incarnation up.

Another good thing to carry while playing a non-healing class like Mage is health potions, they heal for ~50% of your HP right now and can easily bring you back into the game even if you do block at low HP. They also cost basically nothing.

If he had cooldowns from the start and had played better, he could have easily won the fight. Just because he's 4 levels above the opponent shouldn't mean he instantly wins without a fight, and the thing they're "looking in to" is certain skills doing more than intended with the scaling, they're not going to remove scaling entirely just because people throw whine fits over not being able to 1 shot people a couple levels below them. The reason you're not trying to discuss anything is because there's nothing to discuss, you want lower levels to mean free kill no matter what and that's just sad and pathetic on your part. Maybe you should go back out to Hellfire Peninsula and camp those 58s some more.


I'm not reading all of your nonsense, that's what it is.
08/20/2018 01:36 PMPosted by Obscene

Sorry that you can't see past your blind worship of ecelebs, maybe someday you'll grow up and realize that just because someone is on TV doesn't mean they're perfect and can't make mistakes or maybe you just don't realize how important cooldowns are, especially for mages


Personally, I don't watch celebrities or arena players really. I hear about them through the forums or through friends of mine who do watch them. That being said, I could care less what happens to them, but what's being discussed is your terrible statement.

Even I know that getting high ranked in arena takes a fair amount of skill, so they've proven themselves in PvP. That's why, when people like you say something along the lines of, "it's a fair playing field, you're just mad that they killed you since you're bad" it really peeves me off.

Arena players know what a fair playing field is. All of Legion, they had stat templates to decrease power gap between ilvls, and people who've achieved high rating know what a, "fair playing field" is. You can't say that an arena player is bad just because they lost in WPvP in an environment that gives lower levels the advantage because of how scaling works.

I've read your argument, while it's true that he may have made some mistakes while fighting, it wasn't the mistakes alone that killed him. When an arena player loses a match, they don't say, "oh that was unfair, scaling is broken." No, they recognize that they made a mistake and need to improve themselves. They're able to distinguish what exactly is a fair playing field, which this scaling system is not because it throws the favor to lower levels, which is the problem.

I have no problem with lower levels having a fair chance against a higher level, I just wish they'd make the progression matter in terms of gearing. The gear the higher levels get at max level doesn't feel like we're progressing since lower levels still have the secondary stats advantage.
08/20/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Alphon
I have no problem with lower levels having a fair chance against a higher level, I just wish they'd make the progression matter in terms of gearing. The gear the higher levels get at max level doesn't feel like we're progressing since lower levels still have the secondary stats advantage.


I dunno and I have no opinion on the matter, only popcorn. But I haven't had any issues with lower lvls in BFA. It sounds like you don't want lower levels having a fair chance against a higher lvl. Which I mean has been the thing forever and can be seen as an incentive to lvl up...

Wait till the first raid comes out we'll have the gear to roflstomp lower lvls then. My secondary stats are already getting a lot better after doing some mythic dungeons and BGs.
08/20/2018 02:28 PMPosted by Cornstalker

I dunno and I have no opinion on the matter, only popcorn. But I haven't had any issues with lower lvls in BFA. It sounds like you don't want lower levels having a fair chance against a higher lvl. Which I mean has been the thing forever and can be seen as an incentive to lvl up.


There's a line that has to be drawn when it comes to a, "fair chance." I don't know why people always forget this, but WoW is an MMORPG. Why should the game completely remove it's RPG aspects of progression just for a, "fair chance." This games core aspect, from the very beginning, has been about making a character and becoming stronger through levels and gear. When Blizzard started to simplify the game is when subs started to drop.

Let me put it in simple terms for you. I'm a logical person, I think using only logic. The scaling should provide a fair chance for levels 110-120 leveling because they're leveling in the same zone. Players are able to choose what area they want to start out in, which is all scaled, and it'd be unfair to run into a level 120 coming into your zone since the game allows it and encourages it.

The line to be drawn is when lower levels have the advantage over higher levels through secondary stats, and making progression not matter. If they're going to advertise a, "fair playing field" then they need to nerf the secondary stats a lower level benefits from compared to a level 120, so that as they level, they're getting stronger and benefit more as they level. They need to make it so that the progression is visibly noticeable.
08/20/2018 02:57 PMPosted by Alphon
If they're going to advertise a, "fair playing field" then they need to nerf the secondary stats a lower level benefits from compared to a level 120, so that as they level, they're getting stronger and benefit more as they level.


Hmmm. Also maybe cause legendaries to inactivate at lvl 111 instead of 116? IDK I could see the benefits of both. My secondary stats were great at low lvls, but I also did a lot of raiding in Legion so idk if it's a good idea to nix them for the players that earned the gear. But the health pool is smaller by far on lower lvl toons, and I can eat them before they do any damage on me. Ofc I'm a rogue so that's to be expected. I've been kited into a group of 115s before and got blasted which was funny.

I'm just saying I'm not going to advocate for any changes seeing as though I've had a great time and have not had this issue. Also I realize we're in blues and greens, and the epics people have are just regular mythic dungeon epics.
08/20/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Epicbeard
At 111 you probably have like 30 to 40k health
I have almost 100k in 325 gear.
A sundering can crit for 20k. I have no doubt a higher geared player can get crits that 1 shot 111s.

Are you... not aware of how scaling works?

1) scale both players to the attacker's ilvl (and more importantly, health).
2) calculate damage number and show this number to the attacker in his log/combat text.
3) convert damage number to % of victim's scaled health (H). For example, if the attacker has 100k hp and would have hit for 10k, it becomes 10%.
3) unscale victim to their original ilvl/hp.
4) damage victim for H% of their health. In the example, if the defender has only 50k hp, he's hit for 5k; 10% of his health.

So a higher level person with good gear might see a 30k sundering pop up, but the guy they hit with sundering isn't hit for 30k; he's hit for the same % of his max health that the attack would do if both players had the same ilvl and health.

Since secondaries are inflated at low levels and legendaries work, lower level players are explicitly stronger than higher level ones. The scaling works both ways, so a lower ilvl player's damage is scaled up when hitting someone who outgears them.
My Frost Mage could hit 160% haste at 115.

Think there's anything out there that could've fought her?

The answer is a straight up "no".

Sephuz/Lust/Icy Veins, and not even optimized gear resulted in me shooting Frostbolts in 0.7 seconds. Frozen Orb also gave me quite a ridiculous amount of Fingers of Frost, which meant that I had no problems melting just about anything that came across me.

At 115, I could kill a level 122 rare that had over 1mil HP, while missing 40% of the time.

At 120, I can't kill a level 115 Warlock that uses legendaries because "scaling" is terrible. Their stats are just straight up more optimized and the fact that their legendaries still work gives them a massive leg-up. (Seriously, use a 111 with Sephuz and go murder a 120 within seconds because you just got a mini-lust on demand. You'll notice quickly how ridiculous that is.)
What is it with void elves being nonsensical on this forum? lol
08/20/2018 05:26 PMPosted by Kwizzlix
What is it with void elves being nonsensical on this forum? lol


lol
08/20/2018 05:26 PMPosted by Kwizzlix
What is it with void elves being nonsensical on this forum? lol

This is one of the reasons why I kill every void elf I see in War Mode. I travel in a group of 4 with my buddies, we generally tend to leave Alliance alone if it's just 1 person or so, but if it's a void elf we don't care. We kill on sight. Maybe even camp them if we feel like it and have nothing better to do.
"Hey guys, welcome to the Blizzard Dev AMA for Battle for Azeroth. We'd like to go over some new features we're bringing into the next expansion. With every expansion, we like revolutionize the game play so that it feels fresh and exciting. In WoD, we had Garrisons and in legion, we focused on class halls.

What we're introducing here is level and ilvl scaling! What that means is that as you level and gear up, you will be getting progressively weaker. That's right, progression in REVERSE! This is a unique feature to this expansion and has never been done before.

We're excited to bring this feature to you guys in Battle for Azeroth and we're excited to hear your thoughts!"

-Blizzard
08/20/2018 12:05 AMPosted by Yarrow
08/19/2018 11:57 PMPosted by Whisla
...
Well, when a 111 can hit a 120 sitting at 330 for half their life and the 120 can barely do 10% with some of the bigger hits, ya the problem is in the system. The whole system in itself makes the level system pointless. might as well just leave everyone at the same level and just change it to a complete gear system, not like we got anything for leveling anyways other than a weaker toon that gets stomped by low levels

Except that the 120s can do all of the life of the 111s, or at least of this 113. I died to a 50k dagger throw and then again to a 55k leap today, with a 54k health pool, and that's after scaling.

If the 111 is hitting you for half your health pool and you are hitting the 111 for all of their health pool, you still win.


How about you post legit logs of this "50k dagger throw" I'd love to see it, be cause you're full of !@#$.
08/20/2018 03:52 AMPosted by Rhekkar
08/20/2018 12:05 AMPosted by Yarrow
...
Except that the 120s can do all of the life of the 111s, or at least of this 113. I died to a 50k dagger throw and then again to a 55k leap today, with a 54k health pool, and that's after scaling.

If the 111 is hitting you for half your health pool and you are hitting the 111 for all of their health pool, you still win.


You're tripping, lady. Heroic leaps kill critters and that's about it.


iIm now imagining warriors leaping onto rabbits and squirrels while shouting about how heroic they are. Thank you for that image sir, you made my day lol
08/21/2018 04:32 AMPosted by Bobthenecro
08/20/2018 03:52 AMPosted by Rhekkar
...

You're tripping, lady. Heroic leaps kill critters and that's about it.


iIm now imagining warriors leaping onto rabbits and squirrels while shouting about how heroic they are. Thank you for that image sir, you made my day lol


Just here for the comments on how all these sobbing millennial cupcakes cry to keep common core scaling.
It's stupid and dumb and smelly and it makes me not want to PVP ever.


lol, I'm dead

Smelly as an adjective to describe PvP lmao

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