Horde story cannot be salvageable.

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08/28/2018 08:02 AMPosted by Arlifrex
08/28/2018 07:59 AMPosted by Pellex
Okay, then how about they attack the Horde (starting in Silithus) because they feel that it's the only way to stop them from mining Azerite while the planet is dying?


Anduin wouldn’t allow that.

Why not? They'd be protecting the planet. And he's already decided that Sylvanas is irredeemably evil.
08/28/2018 07:50 AMPosted by Ershan
08/28/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Pellex
ou couldn't see them deciding that the time has come to reclaim Gilneas and/or Lordaeron (and/or Alterac) at last, and launching a campaign to do so?

Nope, not after SoO. I could see Genn and Jaina wanting to do that while the rest of the Alliance says no.

Switching which side decides to attack while the planet is literally dying won't fix the expansion. It will just make the Alliance look like retards instead of the Horde.


Alliance wanting to stop the Horde from gathering a super powerful resource because Sylvanas cannot be trusted with it isn't an idiotic indefensible position.

Anduin even mentions a few times in off-game material how he considered it.
08/28/2018 08:02 AMPosted by Arlifrex
Anduin wouldn’t allow that.
Since "Before of the Storm Sylvanas" stated the goal of the Forsaken is now to kill all the living, everyone including Anduin and the Horde should be attacking her.
08/28/2018 01:03 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
08/28/2018 08:02 AMPosted by Arlifrex
Anduin wouldn’t allow that.
Since "Heart of the Storm Sylvanas" stated the goal of the Forsaken is now to kill all the living, everyone including Anduin and the Horde should be attacking her.


Heart of the Storm? Is that some weird Warcraft / Starcraft crossover episode?
08/28/2018 01:06 PMPosted by Ayaani
Heart of the Storm? Is that some weird Warcraft / Starcraft crossover episode?

Just wait until the end when Sylvanas becomes a Xel'naga to save the Universe from a giant space squid.
08/28/2018 01:06 PMPosted by Ayaani
08/28/2018 01:03 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
...Since "Heart of the Storm Sylvanas" stated the goal of the Forsaken is now to kill all the living, everyone including Anduin and the Horde should be attacking her.


Heart of the Storm? Is that some weird Warcraft / Starcraft crossover episode?


Before the Storm.

But if Sylvanas is getting the kerrigan treatment then you might be getting something close to a crossover...
How much of the Alliance playerbase actually wants them to be the aggressors and do something even somewhat questionable?

And relatedly, how much does Blizz want to push the players out of their comfort zone?
08/26/2018 11:59 AMPosted by Myrothan
pixel people


Yehp, it's come down to people like you hired as writers who treat the universe's characters built over decades of lore as "pixel people" and ignoring the need to write good content because this is all a make-believe wonderland.

Yes, let's kill droves of pixel people and throw characters into the trash for the sake of advancing a plot that is hard to rationalize. Oh wait, we don't have to rationalize anything! Cuz hurr durr pixel people!
08/28/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Pellex
08/27/2018 11:54 PMPosted by Cursewords
I cant see the Alliance being too much of an aggressor to start BfA working.

You couldn't see them deciding that the time has come to reclaim Gilneas and/or Lordaeron (and/or Alterac) at last, and launching a campaign to do so? Because I can--easily--and imagine that the majority of Alliance players would get behind such an effort. "After all," they would likely say, "it's rightfully our land in the first place. Why shouldn't we be aggressive in driving out beings who have to right to it?"

Alternatively: you couldn't see the Alliance deciding that Azerite is too dangerous a substance for the Horde to possess? And from there, becoming aggressive in their attempt to keep Azerite away from the Horde?

Seriously, I think it's actually easier to come up with reasons for the Alliance to be aggressive in this situation than for the Horde.


Bleh. Read that post you quoted - but read the parts you omitted.

What I continued with, which you omitted, was that if the Alliance pissed off the Horde, it is unbelievable that burning Teldrassil would be the denouement of Legion.

Sylvanas would use her "political capital" to really show the world evil, if she ever had any.
I Stand with Talanji. I love her so much but I don't really care for Slyvannas and she def needs someone to balance her crazy a-s-s out.
08/28/2018 08:07 AMPosted by Pellex
08/28/2018 08:02 AMPosted by Arlifrex
...

Anduin wouldn’t allow that.

Why not? They'd be protecting the planet. And he's already decided that Sylvanas is irredeemably evil.


Sylvanas, not the Horde. We don’t know how the war would’ve escalated without Ashenvale, but Anduin was content with surveillance. He’d never go to full war like Sylvanas.
08/28/2018 01:09 PMPosted by Ninggrom
And relatedly, how much does Blizz want to push the players out of their comfort zone?

A fair number of Horde players are already outside our comfort zone, so Blizz is clearly willing to do it.

08/28/2018 01:33 PMPosted by Cursewords
Bleh. Read that post you quoted - but read the parts you omitted.

What I continued with, which you omitted, was that if the Alliance pissed off the Horde, it is unbelievable that burning Teldrassil would be the denouement of Legion.

Sylvanas would use her "political capital" to really show the world evil, if she ever had any.

Maybe. I consider that part speculative, so I don't really have anything to say about it, which is why I didn't quote it. I was more interested in the fact that you could see no way for the Alliance to be the aggressors in this case.

08/28/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Arlifrex
Sylvanas, not the Horde.

But Sylvanas would be the one with the power to decide what to do with the Azerite.

08/28/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Arlifrex
We don’t know how the war would’ve escalated without Ashenvale, but Anduin was content with surveillance.

"Surveillance" that includes killing miners to get samples (I finally did those quests on my Alliance alt last night).

08/28/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Arlifrex
He’d never go to full war like Sylvanas.

Okay, but it wouldn't have to start as full war. A surgical strike just to stop the mining and secure the Azerite fields from Horde interference. The campaign already includes killing as it is. Then there's retaliation from the Horde and an attempt to retake the fields. Then more Azerite starts showing up along the coast of Kalimdor. The two sides race to be the first to reach each node, things escalate, and voila, Anduin's got a war on his hands whether he planned for one or not.
08/26/2018 10:24 AMPosted by Tewdee
"Wait and see."

Whenever anyone voices any complaint about the Horde storyline, Blizzard throws these three words out and pretends it justifies everything because there's some unimaginably good content behind the scenes that we--as dumb players--haven't seen yet that'll retroactively justify everything.

It won't.

Our characters are acting out-of-character to push the narrative, others make non-sense dialogue to try and justify the faction war by mentioning events that haven't happened and people talk about the evils and tyranny of the Alliance as if we're supposed to know what they're talking about.

While this might be content that we haven't seen yet, adding it two months from now still doesn't stop the fact that the entire premise is ruined because of the Horde having no reason to fight.

The only way you can try and make the Horde feel any pride in this faction war is by making the Alliance do bad things in response to the Horde, which ruins the effect. Why would I hate the Alliance for responding to Horde aggression?

The writers have made Daelin--someone who should never be portrayed as correct in any capacity--into a sympathetic character who was correct about the Horde the entire time. Daelin, which was seen as the Alliance equivalent of figures like Garrosh.

There's no way the Horde story can be fixed. All that's left now is mitigating the damage as we head towards Siege of Orgrimmar 2, Warlords of Draenor's "DRAENOR IS FREE" where we forgive all the stupidity or a third villain and the Alliance just happens to forget the Horde's crimes.

Battle for Azeroth's Horde story is a failure and should've been scrapped the moment it came into the writing room.


You don’t have to wait and see there is a million justifiable reasons in game now and has been lore wise for years.

Your argument is laughable.
Enlighten us.
08/29/2018 10:19 AMPosted by Tewdee
Enlighten us.


Let’s just simply start with the fact the Humans (horrible race in lore) want the Forsaken eliminated at all costs and have made that abundantly clear.

Let’s move on to the seventh legion hunting Sylvanas recently in Stormheim, and then Glenn’s attack on the WARCHIEF of the horde during a ceasefire.

Let’s then take a look at what was said by Anduin to Glenn about those two situations...

*crickets*

Want me to add more to that?

Let’s talk about how the Belfs recently just kicked out the void elves and actively proclaimed them against the interests of the horde to just have Alleria show up and recruit them into the Alliance like nbd.

Yeah, why are we recruiting more races into the alliance if not to bolster the ranks for an oncoming war?

Want more? Anduin KNEW who Caliea was and brought a usurper to the meeting of the alliance and Forsaken.

More still?
Forsaken's number one enemy isn't humanity. Before the Storm saw to that by showing how Pure-Hearted Anduin cared more about the Forsaken than Sylvanas.

Stormheim is a good scenario that could've been used to push the Horde into the war. They don't use it aside from a throwaway line in A Good War.

Recruiting people into your faction isn't a good motive to fight the Alliance.
08/29/2018 10:37 AMPosted by Draçula
08/29/2018 10:19 AMPosted by Tewdee
Enlighten us.


Let’s just simply start with the fact the Humans (horrible race in lore) want the Forsaken eliminated at all costs and have made that abundantly clear.

Let’s move on to the seventh legion hunting Sylvanas recently in Stormheim, and then Glenn’s attack on the WARCHIEF of the horde during a ceasefire.

Let’s then take a look at what was said by Anduin to Glenn about those two situations...

*crickets*

Want me to add more to that?

Let’s talk about how the Belfs recently just kicked out the void elves and actively proclaimed them against the interests of the horde to just have Alleria show up and recruit them into the Alliance like nbd.

Yeah, why are we recruiting more races into the alliance if not to bolster the ranks for an oncoming war?

Want more? Anduin KNEW who Caliea was and brought a usurper to the meeting of the alliance and Forsaken.

More still?


Buddy you really ought to stop being so edgy. “Alliance wants to exterminate all forsaken” is directly contradicted by the lore. Sylvanas herself was jeopardizing the legion war effort in Stormheim. Blood elves EXILED the void elves, the Alliance picking them up is not justification for war. Anduin bringing Calia to the meeting is, at most, a diplomatic faux pas, and what Sylvanas did in response was much worse. Not to mention Sylvanas using chemical warfare, and killing her own troops to raise as undead.

Just stop trying. Sylvanas isn’t merely evil. She’s cartoonishly, stupidly evil. There’s no defending her.
08/29/2018 11:16 AMPosted by Tewdee
Stormheim is a good scenario that could've been used to push the Horde into the war. They don't use it aside from a throwaway line in A Good War.
Blizzard definitely wants to blame the Horde 100% for the current war. I don't know why, but the framing of the Alliance as victims, and the way they ignore all Alliance misdeeds (like Stormheim) seems to be pushing the "Horde is Black, Alliance is White" narrative pretty hard.
08/29/2018 11:28 AMPosted by Hahahahahaha
seems to be pushing the "Horde is Black, Alliance is White" narrative pretty hard.

But if you mix black and white together you get grey.

morally grey
08/29/2018 11:19 AMPosted by Kaloran
08/29/2018 10:37 AMPosted by Draçula
...

Let’s just simply start with the fact the Humans (horrible race in lore) want the Forsaken eliminated at all costs and have made that abundantly clear.

Let’s move on to the seventh legion hunting Sylvanas recently in Stormheim, and then Glenn’s attack on the WARCHIEF of the horde during a ceasefire.

Let’s then take a look at what was said by Anduin to Glenn about those two situations...

*crickets*

Want me to add more to that?

Let’s talk about how the Belfs recently just kicked out the void elves and actively proclaimed them against the interests of the horde to just have Alleria show up and recruit them into the Alliance like nbd.

Yeah, why are we recruiting more races into the alliance if not to bolster the ranks for an oncoming war?

Want more? Anduin KNEW who Caliea was and brought a usurper to the meeting of the alliance and Forsaken.

More still?


Buddy you really ought to stop being so edgy. “Alliance wants to exterminate all forsaken” is directly contradicted by the lore. Sylvanas herself was jeopardizing the legion war effort in Stormheim. Blood elves EXILED the void elves, the Alliance picking them up is not justification for war. Anduin bringing Calia to the meeting is, at most, a diplomatic faux pas, and what Sylvanas did in response was much worse. Not to mention Sylvanas using chemical warfare, and killing her own troops to raise as undead.

Just stop trying. Sylvanas isn’t merely evil. She’s cartoonishly, stupidly evil. There’s no defending her.
Sooo edgy, lmfao.

And no it’s not, maybe Anduin sees redemption for them but no other Alliance race does and the vast majority of humanity still does. Especially the Gilneans.

Sylvanas did not jeopardize the war effort, try again.

Bolstering your ranks after aforementioned affronts to the WARCHIEF is not a great idea and shows I’ll will to the horde at large.

Sylvanus used and gave out gas masks as soon as she could, she never intended to have to use the plague until it was needed, and it was still and active war zone, please stop trying to use that as any justifovation, it’s laughable.

I’m literally defending her because alliance fan boys don’t see or want to see reasoning when it is incredibly evident.

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