PvP, Imbalances, Poor class design.

Battlegrounds
08/13/2018 03:53 AMPosted by Soulicitor
You havent done any content at max level so I dont see why youre moaning so much.

But yea, don't buy the game. Leave. Honestly, no one could care less.

Wtf is wrong with you
This world of melee craft balance is horrid. The bg's im getting are filled with just melee and a few healers and the odd doomed caster. It's a complete joke.

I always thought bringing back classic wow was a lame idea but it will definately offer more balance and variety in gameplay than this...
08/13/2018 03:45 AMPosted by Sôna
Even the 2D garbage looking Ultima Online (1999) had a mage spell book with over 60 spells. There were tons of templates and viable combo's for different situations. The players took an okay game and made it great. You had the tools to be creative and unique.


I played UO for years, and loved it, but come on - melee was literally nothing but hacking at your opponent with a weapon that you’d built weapon skill up in. Like there were literally NO melee “abilities”.

And while there were a lot of spell options, it was pretty much a few used as attacks and one or two as heals. What was it, feeblemind, poison, flamestrike and... corp por? Followed by hitting a dude with a halberd or katana for the rest of his life.

The game had some great sandbox aspects - bounties, order/chaos, buccaneers den, being a murderer, taking all loot when people died, chopping up bodies, etc., but overall the actual game play mechanics were incredibly simplistic. All you did was get 7 skills up to 100 (many through overnight macros while you slept), and then followed the same basic rotational plays in the hopes that you were faster than the opponent.

As an aside, today’s gamer wouldn’t except such a boringly grindy skill leveling game with such great consequences.
08/13/2018 03:53 AMPosted by Soulicitor
You havent done any content at max level so I dont see why youre moaning so much.

But yea, don't buy the game. Leave. Honestly, no one could care less.


New content? I think you mean new continent
No I meant content and I never said new. Don't assume.
08/11/2018 09:33 PMPosted by Sôna
I recently subscribed and was considering buying the new expansion if I thought it was worth playing. I played during Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK and for a couple months in WOD. I'm mostly a PvP player and thats the core reason why I've played in the past.

I highly doubt I will be buying the new expansion or continuing my subscription after playing for the last few weeks. I know WOD got a lot of hate but from my experience the classes and PvP felt pretty solid overall. Coming back this month... I'm extremely disappointed with the state of PvP and how imbalanced and dumbed down the game feels. I realize that the game has never been perfectly balanced around PvP but this has to be one of the worst experiences I've ever had PvPing in WoW.


I been playing since 2006 off an on, what you have to understand WoW has never been perfectly balanced in pvp, one class has always been OP, and one class has always really sucked. This is why i play multiple classes that i enjoy, I have a frost mage, a rogue and ret pally! which one of them are always at least a good class to be playing. Also play the game for fun, who care if you dont win every fight or every duel! just have fun.
08/13/2018 04:52 AMPosted by Fatfreddy
08/13/2018 03:45 AMPosted by Sôna
Even the 2D garbage looking Ultima Online (1999) had a mage spell book with over 60 spells. There were tons of templates and viable combo's for different situations. The players took an okay game and made it great. You had the tools to be creative and unique.


I played UO for years, and loved it, but come on - melee was literally nothing but hacking at your opponent with a weapon that you’d built weapon skill up in. Like there were literally NO melee “abilities”.

And while there were a lot of spell options, it was pretty much a few used as attacks and one or two as heals. What was it, feeblemind, poison, flamestrike and... corp por? Followed by hitting a dude with a halberd or katana for the rest of his life.

The game had some great sandbox aspects - bounties, order/chaos, buccaneers den, being a murderer, taking all loot when people died, chopping up bodies, etc., but overall the actual game play mechanics were incredibly simplistic. All you did was get 7 skills up to 100 (many through overnight macros while you slept), and then followed the same basic rotational plays in the hopes that you were faster than the opponent.

As an aside, today’s gamer wouldn’t except such a boringly grindy skill leveling game with such great consequences.


I haven't played that game since 2002-2003. It wouldn't interest me today and I mostly played during Age of Shadows.

There was a lot of viable templates. Archer/Mages, Tank/Mages, Nox/Mages, Necro/Mages, Melee/Necro, Archer/Necro, Archer/Pally, Melee/Pally. Melee/Thief Mage/Thief etc etc.

Mage spell book had 64 spells. Paladin spell book had like 15-20 spells. Necro spell book had 20 spells.

Each type of weapon had two different special abilties. Swords, Mace, Axes, Fencers, Bows, Crossbows. There was like over 12 special abilities on weapons like dismount, mortal strike etc. You could poison weapons.

I was in a faction guild who owned cities for like 2 years straight. Raiding other people's spawns and defending our own. It was fun.

I used a lot spells frequently. Way more then ones you named.

Paralyze, Cure, Arch Cure, Wall of Stone, Paralyze Field, Curse, Mass Curse, Bless, Poison, Heal, Greater Heal, Summon Vortex, Summon Blade Spirits, Reactive Armor, Protection, Teleport, Arch Protection, Recall, Dispell Field, Dispell, Poison Field, Reveal, Energy Field, Gate Travel, Mana Vampire, Ressurection, Summon Earth Elemental,

Magic Arrow, Fireball, Lightning, Harm, Fire Field, Mana Drain, Mind Blast,
Energy Bolt, Chain LIghtning, Flamestrike, Meteor Swarm, Earthquake

Some spells were pre-casted. Some spells had delays to set up combo's. They all had different cast times and speeds. Some were stronger based on the distance.

You had to use a lot of different offensive spells to fizzle other casters spells depending on the speed of the spell cast.

That's only the mage spells and there were some cool fun ones like incognito.

I had everything I just listed binded on my keyboard. I spent months trying to master PvP.

People used to do all sorts of crazy ish. Fencers would have stealing and snooping, they would last target your bag and run up on you and steal your healing reagents. Necro Mages would curse/corpse skin you and reduce your fire damage and the team would nuke you down with a pre casted explosion and then combo flamestrike/fireball/fireball/

The cross healing and team play was top notch.

There were tons of Templates. My guild leader had like 5 accounts and every character he had was a different template. That's 25 characters. He sold his castle for 3000$ US.

That game was cool for it's time.
08/13/2018 05:27 AMPosted by Sôna
Mage spell book had 64 spells. Paladin spell book had like 15-20 spells. Necro spell book had 20 spells.


I played before paladins and necro so that’s probably some of the difference.

08/13/2018 05:27 AMPosted by Sôna
That's only the mage spells and there were some cool fun ones like incognito.

I had everything I just listed binded on my keyboard. I spent months trying to master PvP.


There was a ton of cool !@#$. That game was my beginning of MMO life and in terms of openness is untouchable to me. Taming horses, nightmares, dragons, etc.

But as much fun as I had in pvp (graveyard fights during the restart hour were awesome) it didn’t have as much viability for variety of pvp as there is in wow.

There is such a variety of spec and other things in wow that (for me) I prefer. Do I wish I could loot someone’s %^-* when I killed them and cut off their head for a bounty? Absolutely. Do I wish faction/guild wars were as awesome as they were in UO? Absolutely.

But for the experience of pvp in bgs (which I love), wow wins out for me hands down.

Thanks for the trip down nostalgia lane.
08/13/2018 05:14 AMPosted by Crazydavey
08/11/2018 09:33 PMPosted by Sôna
I recently subscribed and was considering buying the new expansion if I thought it was worth playing. I played during Vanilla, TBC, WOTLK and for a couple months in WOD. I'm mostly a PvP player and thats the core reason why I've played in the past.

I highly doubt I will be buying the new expansion or continuing my subscription after playing for the last few weeks. I know WOD got a lot of hate but from my experience the classes and PvP felt pretty solid overall. Coming back this month... I'm extremely disappointed with the state of PvP and how imbalanced and dumbed down the game feels. I realize that the game has never been perfectly balanced around PvP but this has to be one of the worst experiences I've ever had PvPing in WoW.


I been playing since 2006 off an on, what you have to understand WoW has never been perfectly balanced in pvp, one class has always been OP, and one class has always really sucked. This is why i play multiple classes that i enjoy, I have a frost mage, a rogue and ret pally! which one of them are always at least a good class to be playing. Also play the game for fun, who care if you dont win every fight or every duel! just have fun.


I'm not expecting a perfectly balanced game. I know better then that.

Battlegrounds are decided by which team has more disc priests . Disc is actually my favorite spec and I love the Priest class. The changes to Shadow seem cool on paper but they're really underwhelming. I'm not going to play Holy in PvP. It's not worth maining a priest for 1 spec.

I came back wanting to play a Druid again. I love the versatility and class design. I haven't played for awhile and I was a bit upset to see that Feral/Guardian had been separated into two specs. I guess i can understand.. It's just a big change that I wasn't expecting.

I wouldn't play Balance. Looking at a Moonkin for more then 4 secs irritates me.

Resto is playable and fun but it's not even anywhere close to what a Disc Priest brings. Priests are just better at keeping people up and surviving. They are also putting big damage numbers with Holy Fire / Penance spam.

Feral feels weak and most people that play it seem to agree. I have to rely on pillars and structures to run behind and reset. I can jump on a warrior, throw down all my bleeds and I to have GTFO. I can't even let a warrior touch me or he just heals through all of the damage and I explode. I have to rely on my environment to win that match up. Stun/bleeds, kite to structure, reset/stealth, repeat. It's sooo cheese.. I can't win that match up without an object to run behind.

Druids were the masters of kiting. Now their identity feels nerfed. Pally's mounting in combat. Warriors with like 4 gap closer's.. etc etc.

I got chained stunned in a BG for like 14 seconds by 3-4 players. There is no chance to escape anymore when you're in a situations like that. Back in the day you could cheese a group of players questing. Nuke one down quick before his buddies reacted. Blink/Invis/Bounce. Now kiting 2-3 players by your self out in the open with all the of gap closer's and crowd control now is pretty heavy.

I can't enjoy the play styles and specs i once did. I highly doubt anythings going to change anytime soon. From my experiences the starting of an expansion is usually the most imbalanced and it takes good while before they clean it up.
08/13/2018 06:15 AMPosted by Fatfreddy
08/13/2018 05:27 AMPosted by Sôna
Mage spell book had 64 spells. Paladin spell book had like 15-20 spells. Necro spell book had 20 spells.


I played before paladins and necro so that’s probably some of the difference.

08/13/2018 05:27 AMPosted by Sôna
That's only the mage spells and there were some cool fun ones like incognito.

I had everything I just listed binded on my keyboard. I spent months trying to master PvP.


There was a ton of cool !@#$. That game was my beginning of MMO life and in terms of openness is untouchable to me. Taming horses, nightmares, dragons, etc.

But as much fun as I had in pvp (graveyard fights during the restart hour were awesome) it didn’t have as much viability for variety of pvp as there is in wow.

There is such a variety of spec and other things in wow that (for me) I prefer. Do I wish I could loot someone’s %^-* when I killed them and cut off their head for a bounty? Absolutely. Do I wish faction/guild wars were as awesome as they were in UO? Absolutely.

But for the experience of pvp in bgs (which I love), wow wins out for me hands down.

Thanks for the trip down nostalgia lane.


Ah that's why.. Age of Shadows was a completely different beast. They added a lot. Necromancy, Chivalry (paladin), Spell Channeling weapons. Insurance. Armor with resistances and stats like Lower Mana Cost, Lower Reagent Cost %, Hit Point Increase, Spell Damage and of ton of others. There was faster casting jewelry, faster casting recovery jewelry. Artifacts. Power Scrolls that raised your skills to 110 Elder or 120 Legendary. Stat Scrolls that sold for millions.

The spawns that would drop scrolls would take you through levels of waves and waves of enemies until you got to the boss of that specific spawn. They were no push overs. Every spawn was deep in a dungeon in Felucia or T2A. So other guilds could contest you at the spawns or try to steal your scrolls. You couldn't recall out and the scrolls would drop on death. If you tagged a boss another guild was partied up fighting they would have to heal the boss back up or they would lose scrolls to you. There would be like 7-8 guys healing a Dragon tanking the boss. Certain power scrolls like 120 Magery or 120 Resisting spells would sell for millions and were pretty rare. The top raiding guilds during that time had like 100 to 200 members and would monopolize areas and keep dead players (ghosts) sitting at different spawns so they would know when guilds were doing them. lmao

Me and some friends would stand at the entrance to dungeons on Tamers. Invis the dragons/nightmares and throw bola's to dismount other players, kill their mounts and sick the dragons on them. People came up with all sorts of crazy ideas.

They added so much during that expansion and it got a lot of people venturing back into Felcucia to fight for control of the spawns. PvP was at an all time high. The skill gap was huge at that time. Fighting other guilds for power and being in that top tier made it extremely competitive. That was the best era hands down.
08/11/2018 10:27 PMPosted by Lirion
Im cancelling my sub as well if the healer > dmg meta continues when the patch drops.

Time is better spent playing other games that are actually fun and solo friendly


can I have your stuff?
08/13/2018 06:15 AMPosted by Fatfreddy
...

I played before paladins and necro so that’s probably some of the difference.

...

There was a ton of cool !@#$. That game was my beginning of MMO life and in terms of openness is untouchable to me. Taming horses, nightmares, dragons, etc.

But as much fun as I had in pvp (graveyard fights during the restart hour were awesome) it didn’t have as much viability for variety of pvp as there is in wow.

There is such a variety of spec and other things in wow that (for me) I prefer. Do I wish I could loot someone’s %^-* when I killed them and cut off their head for a bounty? Absolutely. Do I wish faction/guild wars were as awesome as they were in UO? Absolutely.

But for the experience of pvp in bgs (which I love), wow wins out for me hands down.

Thanks for the trip down nostalgia lane.


Ah that's why.. Age of Shadows was a completely different beast. They added a lot. Spell Channeling weapons. Insurance. Armor with resistances and stats like Lower Mana Cost, Lower Reagent Cost %, Hit Point Increase, Spell Damage and of ton of others. There was faster casting jewelry, faster casting recovery jewelry. Artifacts. Power Scrolls that raised your skills to 110 Elder or 120 Legendary. Stat Scrolls that sold for millions.

The spawns that would drop scrolls would take you through stages of waves and waves of enemies until you got to boss of that specific spawn. Every spawn was deep in a dungeon in Felucia or T2A. So other guilds could contest you at the spawns or try to steal your scrolls. You couldn't recall out and the scrolls would drop on death. If you tagged a boss another guild was partied up fighting they would have to heal the boss back up or they would lose scrolls to you. Certain power scrolls like 120 Magery or 120 Resisting spells would sell for millions and were pretty rare. The top raiding guilds during that time had like 100 to 200 members and would monopolize areas and keep dead players (ghosts) sitting at different spawns so they would know when guilds were doing them. lmao

Me and some friends would stand at the entrance to dungeons on Tamers. Invis the dragons/nightmares and throw bola's to dismount other players, kill their mounts and sick the dragons on them. People came up with all sorts of crazy ideas.

They added so much during that expansion and it got a lot of people venturing back into Felcucia to fight for control of the spawns. PvP was at an all time high. The skill gap was huge at that time. Fighting other guilds for power and being in that top tier made it extremely competitive. That was the best era hands down.


Sounds cool. I loved UO when I played it, and still have fond memories of it.

I just googled it and AoS came out in 2003, so yea, I never would’ve even heard of or played it.
08/11/2018 09:33 PMPosted by Sôna
I highly doubt I will be buying the new expansion or continuing my subscription after playing for the last few weeks.


Okay, bye.
Im sorry did a Priest just show up and complain about PvP imbalances?
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Ah that's why.. Age of Shadows was a completely different beast. They added a lot. Spell Channeling weapons. Insurance. Armor with resistances and stats like Lower Mana Cost, Lower Reagent Cost %, Hit Point Increase, Spell Damage and of ton of others. There was faster casting jewelry, faster casting recovery jewelry. Artifacts. Power Scrolls that raised your skills to 110 Elder or 120 Legendary. Stat Scrolls that sold for millions.

The spawns that would drop scrolls would take you through stages of waves and waves of enemies until you got to boss of that specific spawn. Every spawn was deep in a dungeon in Felucia or T2A. So other guilds could contest you at the spawns or try to steal your scrolls. You couldn't recall out and the scrolls would drop on death. If you tagged a boss another guild was partied up fighting they would have to heal the boss back up or they would lose scrolls to you. Certain power scrolls like 120 Magery or 120 Resisting spells would sell for millions and were pretty rare. The top raiding guilds during that time had like 100 to 200 members and would monopolize areas and keep dead players (ghosts) sitting at different spawns so they would know when guilds were doing them. lmao

Me and some friends would stand at the entrance to dungeons on Tamers. Invis the dragons/nightmares and throw bola's to dismount other players, kill their mounts and sick the dragons on them. People came up with all sorts of crazy ideas.

They added so much during that expansion and it got a lot of people venturing back into Felcucia to fight for control of the spawns. PvP was at an all time high. The skill gap was huge at that time. Fighting other guilds for power and being in that top tier made it extremely competitive. That was the best era hands down.


Sounds cool. I loved UO when I played it, and still have fond memories of it.

I just googled it and AoS came out in 2003, so yea, I never would’ve even heard of or played it.


Right when Age of Shadow's ended I discovered WoW. I was on a Marshall team with like 12 guys who had gotten the Grand Marshall title. I hit Commander on my mage and was 1 week away from Marshall and then TBC dropped. My honor bar was literally right at the end. If I had played one more game that week I would have hit Marshall. Still having the Commander title was nice.

I had a copy of TBC the night before it hit the shelves. At 12pm. I was the second person to walk through the portal on my server and my chat just exploded with like 100 whispers from all these random people asking me what it was like. For about 6-7 hours me and a small handful of people had the entire hellfire peninsula to ourselves.

Those were the years boss.
08/13/2018 08:39 AMPosted by Sôna
Those were the years boss.


I stopped playing UO in probably ‘99 or early 2000. Didn’t touch a game again until ‘08. Hell, I didn’t even know WoW existed until then.
08/13/2018 09:08 AMPosted by Fatfreddy
08/13/2018 08:39 AMPosted by Sôna
Those were the years boss.


I stopped playing UO in probably ‘99 or early 2000. Didn’t touch a game again until ‘08. Hell, I didn’t even know WoW existed until then.


That's when the majority of players came in and the game really peaked.
I hated the introduction of the Death Knight but WOTLK was solid.
ive purchased every expansion for the last 10 years giving the devs the benefit of the doubt only to be disappointed. well not this time. what its is now is what it will be at 120. that's how its always been and that's how it will continue to be. not wasting my money.
08/12/2018 07:23 PMPosted by Sôna
08/11/2018 10:27 PMPosted by Kivasa
...

We're all paying customers, buddy. Doesn't change the fact it's pre-patch, and this happens every single pre-patch. You got 2 more days of it, you'll survive somehow.

What's funny is that it's not even in that bad of state by WoW standards.


7 expansions in, 14 years later and over an estimated 3 billion dollars.

They have had more than enough time and resources to get it right.

I'm not expecting it to be perfectly balanced but it's such a mess right now.
What are you on about pvp was extremely well balanced throughout legion. Literally every spec in the game was viable at high level.
08/12/2018 07:45 PMPosted by Heckindoggo
BAAAAIIIII GIRLFRIEND! CYA LAAAATER!


Are you assuming folks' genders? Might have to put you in time out with Peppers kek

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